17 TAC brass forming issues

Originally Posted By: The VirginianThe IMI are USED fired cases and I was told they would be a good .223 case to neck down because of their durability and thickness. Yes they will go in and are very hard to extract. My ability to write what I'm dealing with seems to be lack luster. My apologies...

I'm starting to think that the brass may be too thick. Maybe I should order some TAC 20 Dakota/Lapua brass and have another go with it? Possibly the curve ball being thrown my way here is USED brass and too thick?

Have you FL sized it?

IMI brass is EXCELLENT brass.

Since the Dtac folks like a tight chamber, there is a possibility that you will need a small base sizing die to get you started.

You CAN use a 223 Redding Small base BODY die to pull down the body to absolute minimum diameter.. They are not expensive.

(Coyotejunki... please - two people cannot do this at the same time, and you are not even on the same page).



 
You are fine with the IMI brass I believe as that is what I use in my .20 tac with no problem. Based on the info so far I would load 10 rounds go shoot them and see how the brass functions after firing. If it will go into battery and fire you are go to go IMO. As Catshooter said don’t load too mild but of course don’t run to max either and you should get good results. Your brass is a little snug on your first case forming as you mentioned and if it was a bolt gun you would not think much about it but an AR doesn’t have that bolt action extraction capability so fire’em and let the gas jerk’em out.
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IMI brass is fine. Looks to me like your shoulder is getting bumped back just a little to much causing a slight bulge. Seems to me you have a simple die adjustment issue.
 
Originally Posted By: DogpopperIMI brass is fine. Looks to me like your shoulder is getting bumped back just a little to much causing a slight bulge. Seems to me you have a simple die adjustment issue.

That bulge is normal when forming some cases - I have 200 Lapua 20 TAC cases that look just like that, waiting to be fire formed.
 
Originally Posted By: DogpopperIMI brass is fine. Looks to me like your shoulder is getting bumped back just a little to much causing a slight bulge. Seems to me you have a simple die adjustment issue.


I agree 100% you need to adjust your die and get rid of that bulge at the body/ shoulder junction. I have had that situation before and after I fixed it the problem went away.
 
Ok, here's an update with some cheers and jeers...

I found out a huge portion of my issues was the bolt on top of my turret press had come loose. I wasn't getting a full stroke because the turret would rock up ever so slightly. I'm more than embarrassed to write and publish this paragraph.
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To remedy this I drew an arrow on the bolt after I took it apart and re-greased the head, added some blue threadlock and synched her down.


I tried using new Winchester brass and was able to get it to chamber and eject about 90% of the time. With the fixed turret the IMI brass still will not eject so I ordered a Redding .223 small base die. I believe this will cure the wedge fit when I chamber a round. We'll see...

Today I went out to the field and manage to get a few rounds off. WooHoo!


I use those spam signs that people spread all over town as targets. Paced off 20 yards and prayed that my first shot wouldn't grenade. Kind of got the scope somewhat on point and walked out to 50 yards & set up.


I managed to get off 15 shots, cleaning the barrel in between each shot for break-in before two things went wrong. While adjusting my scope for elevation the turret broke, as in it turns but doesn't actually do anything. The scope is a Konus M-30 and makes a compelling argument not to buy low end scopes. A set screw had backed out allowing the turret to turn freely. So, I go to clean my barrel again and my Tipton .17 cal carbon fiber rod tip snaps off. Perfect... At this point I'm starting to feel snake bit.

So I finished up my fireforming with a 5 shot group at 50 yards measuring .509" using Winchester brass, 24.5 gr of Vargat, CCI 400, Zmax 20 gr.


Here's a pic of the spent brass.


I'll post up when I get the small base die and see if it cures the IMI blues I'm experiencing.

Eric
 
Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSOriginally Posted By: DogpopperIMI brass is fine. Looks to me like your shoulder is getting bumped back just a little to much causing a slight bulge. Seems to me you have a simple die adjustment issue.

I agree 100% you need to adjust your die and get rid of that bulge at the body/ shoulder junction. I have had that situation before and after I fixed it the problem went away.

Sometimes, the advice given on this site simply amazes me...

When you "had this situation before", just exactly how did you get it, with what case, and how did you make it go away.

If he adjusts the die too "get rid of that bulge", then the cases will have shoulders that are not back far enough and they won't fit in the chamber (VERY negative headspace).

This bulge is normal for forming a "Tac", unless you want to spend another $125 for an intermediate stage forming die... which I DO own, but it is as useful as teats on a bull, and causes thin shoulders, and can start head separations.
 
Catshooter is correct. I measured that bulge at the neck and it is .002 smaller then spec and also smaller then the piece of brass I was given that does chamber. As stated above, part of my problem was a loose turret on my press. I'm hoping the small base die fixes the IMI issue. Either way, it's a learning experience for me.
 
Originally Posted By: The VirginianCatshooter is correct. I measured that bulge at the neck and it is .002 smaller then spec and also smaller then the piece of brass I was given that does chamber. As stated above, part of my problem was a loose turret on my press. I'm hoping the small base die fixes the IMI issue. Either way, it's a learning experience for me.


Don't feel bad about the loose turret. I use nail polish to make a mark that goes across the bolt and the turrets on my big Dillons, so I immediately know if a bolt is moving, and once a week (whether I use them or not) I check the bolts to see if the bolts moved as part of a routine inspection (I have 11 presses)
 
Originally Posted By: The VirginianLyman T-Mag. Overall it's been a darn good press but the primer feeder is somewhat problematic.

I have yet to see a press mounted primer feeder that worked well.

 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: DogpopperIMI brass is fine. Looks to me like your shoulder is getting bumped back just a little to much causing a slight bulge. Seems to me you have a simple die adjustment issue.

That bulge is normal when forming some cases - I have 200 Lapua 20 TAC cases that look just like that, waiting to be fire formed.

Good to know as I hope to build a 17 tac in the real near future. Just shows my lack of knowledge on fire forming cases.
 
I am curious... are you saying that IMI brass will not chamber and fire and eject? OR it is just a little tight and difficult to remove with the Charging handle so you have not tried to fire it.
 
Originally Posted By: venaticI am curious... are you saying that IMI brass will not chamber and fire and eject? OR it is just a little tight and difficult to remove with the Charging handle so you have not tried to fire it.


It took a while to sort it out, but the IMI cases were already fired 223, and the body Ø is still a little over size, so he is getting body jams with the formed cases - he hasn't tried a loaded round yet - he ordering a small base body die to bring the body in, and then he can load and shoot them.

The other cases he used were new, unfired, so there was no fat body problem.
 
May I suggest, since you are using used, fired brass for your forming, that your first step be to size the 223 brass with a small-base 223 sizing die to get head specs to minimum size.
I had the same issues with some used, once-fired brass that had been fired in a maximum-spec chamber and my trying to get it to chamber in a minimum-spec chamber. The problem wasn't the shoulder/location, the head of the cases were wedging at the rear of the chamber.
 
Thanks bumtownbutch. I'll do that.

I got in the .223 small base sizing die and ran a few pieces through. It works! A couple are still a little hard to eject but I have confidence they will do fine. Thanks for everyone's contribution to helping me solve my issues. zYou guys rock!

Eric

 
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