17AH bushing neck die

6724

New member
i am having a little trouble locating a bushing neck die for my 17AH. i saw one for sale on a forum, but the thread was over a year old. i went to redding's site, but cant find 17AH listed. should i assume that it is a special order die?

for years in other calibers, i just adjusted my full length die to only size the neck, but with these delicate little cases i want to do all i can to prolong their lives.
 
Your going to get several reloads from the brass but your primer pockets are going to chit the bed long before you would see any benefit from a bushing die. Your right that brass can be rather delicate but your saving grace isn't going to be a bushing die. Your saving grace is going to be a good load that's under max and easy on your brass.
 
Originally Posted By: FurhunterYour going to get several reloads from the brass but your primer pockets are going to chit the bed long before you would see any benefit from a bushing die. Your right that brass can be rather delicate but your saving grace isn't going to be a bushing die. Your saving grace is going to be a good load that's under max and easy on your brass.

IF your saving grace is good loads under max - then the second saving grace will be a bushing die - both will do the cartridge well.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: FurhunterYour going to get several reloads from the brass but your primer pockets are going to chit the bed long before you would see any benefit from a bushing die. Your right that brass can be rather delicate but your saving grace isn't going to be a bushing die. Your saving grace is going to be a good load that's under max and easy on your brass.

IF your saving grace is good loads under max - then the second saving grace will be a bushing die - both will do the cartridge well.



Cat,
I'm not arguing the fact bushing dies don't work. I just don't think its worth the investment on hornet brass as its so inconsistent and has a limited life span regardless. You get what you get out of hornet brass and then it's done. Keeping it annealed will be a big help too but I don't think there's any magic to be had with a bushing die on 17AH brass. It won't help the primer pockets which for me are generally the first thing to go.
 
my loads will no be near max loads. if i want to shoot that fast i will use a different caliber.
hornet brass is not always easy to come by and there is a little bit of work to form the brass, so if i can get an extra loading or maybe more, it is worth it. i have to size the neck anyway, why NOT use a bushing die?
 
Originally Posted By: FurhunterOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: FurhunterYour going to get several reloads from the brass but your primer pockets are going to chit the bed long before you would see any benefit from a bushing die. Your right that brass can be rather delicate but your saving grace isn't going to be a bushing die. Your saving grace is going to be a good load that's under max and easy on your brass.

IF your saving grace is good loads under max - then the second saving grace will be a bushing die - both will do the cartridge well.



Cat,
I'm not arguing the fact bushing dies don't work. I just don't think its worth the investment on hornet brass as its so inconsistent and has a limited life span regardless. You get what you get out of hornet brass and then it's done. Keeping it annealed will be a big help too but I don't think there's any magic to be had with a bushing die on 17AH brass. It won't help the primer pockets which for me are generally the first thing to go.



I don't have a 17 Hornet, but I have had a bunch of 22 Hornets and a bunch of .218 Bees (both have the same 0.008" thin neck), and if the loads are reasonable, then split necks kills most hornet and Bee brass - and bushings (and annealing) can make a big difference in case life.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: FurhunterOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: FurhunterYour going to get several reloads from the brass but your primer pockets are going to chit the bed long before you would see any benefit from a bushing die. Your right that brass can be rather delicate but your saving grace isn't going to be a bushing die. Your saving grace is going to be a good load that's under max and easy on your brass.

IF your saving grace is good loads under max - then the second saving grace will be a bushing die - both will do the cartridge well.




Cat,
I'm not arguing the fact bushing dies don't work. I just don't think its worth the investment on hornet brass as its so inconsistent and has a limited life span regardless. You get what you get out of hornet brass and then it's done. Keeping it annealed will be a big help too but I don't think there's any magic to be had with a bushing die on 17AH brass. It won't help the primer pockets which for me are generally the first thing to go.



I don't have a 17 Hornet, but I have had a bunch of 22 Hornets and a bunch of .218 Bees (both have the same 0.008" thin neck), and if the loads are reasonable, then split necks kills most hornet and Bee brass - and bushings (and annealing) can make a big difference in case life.


True but..
I've got about 700 rounds of 17AH brass that I've been working with the the last 5-6 years or so. Fire formed, trimmed, annealed and sized with my regular redding FL die that stuff measures around .189 and a with seated bullets the necks are anywhere from .190 to .1915. Fired brass is a dead .193 (ya gotta love a custom reamer)

So its not like the standard die over works the necks and a bushing die won't solve the problem with inconsistent neck wall thickness that can happen when necking brass down. I'd love to have more consistent neck dimensions but hornet brass is what it is. The rifle shoots pretty good so neck tension isn't a problem. My issues with the 17AH brass has always been primer pockets. I run a mild load, 20 gr bullet at 3650fps and some brass will last an amazingly long time and others won't hold a primer after 4 firings. Which makes me think hornet brass is more like a box of chocolates................
grin.gif
 
if my chamber is not as precise, it would seem there is more justification for a bushing die. i have not measured the brass as loaded, fired, and sized. i have just completed fire forming my second 100 pcs.
i killed 29 wyoming ground squirrels this morning with the last of them. it was high country style. i rode a snowmobile out into the pasture (snow is still up to 2 feet deep), once out there i can walk on top of the snow, most of the time. the little rodents are easy to see on a backdrop of nothing but snow, and hits are easy to prove with the bloody spot and the pieces laying on top of the snow.

100 more to fire form and then i need to size the formed brass. i have not lost any brass due to forming.
 
Originally Posted By: 6724my loads will no be near max loads. if i want to shoot that fast i will use a different caliber.
hornet brass is not always easy to come by and there is a little bit of work to form the brass, so if i can get an extra loading or maybe more, it is worth it. i have to size the neck anyway, why NOT use a bushing die?

You know, I've read and commented in many, many threads over the last 5+ years on forming AH brass. There's a hundred different ways to go about doing it but one way that nobody ever talks about is using a 17AH bushing die. That could be for several reasons, either nobody wants to spend the money on one, too hard to find or they don't make one. When I think about it I really have to wonder about the latter. Redding lists 17AH as custom in their catalog and they offer a regular neck die along with the fl sizer die but I've never seen a type s or heard of anyone using one.... (but doesn't mean someone didn't pay the high cost to have a custom one made) Sinclair lists everything Redding makes wether in stock or not and they don't list a bushing die for 17AH.

Originally Posted By: 6724if my chamber is not as precise, it would seem there is more justification for a bushing die.

No not really. The big difference in a custom hornet chamber is the tighter diamention just above the rim to eliminate the case bulge which is pretty common in loose hornet chambers. If you have an oversized neck in the chamber.... A type s die isn't going to be any help as your brass still has to be resized back down to hold a bullet so its kinda a wash really.

Also note, when you neck this hornet brass down it gets thicker but it doesn't do so evenly. Your neck walls will vary a little in thickness, you might have .009 on one side and .011 on the other (example only) I would rather use a fl die and an expander button for a consistent inside diamention than a bushing for a consistent outside diamention that pushes those inconsistency to the inside effecting neck tension.

If sized correctly your 300 rounds of brass will last you a long time. Long enough for it to start showing up again on the shelves and you can then buy more, Its consumable. No matter the method your only going to get so much from it, after all were not talking about Lapua brass here...

In the end.. You can either take the advise (based on experience) that's been offered or choose to ignore it. I can beat my head on the wall explaining as to how its a waste of time and money because the overall quality and consistency of the brass just isn't worth the expense of the die. But if you are [beeep] bent on spending the money and willing to wait the 6 to 8 months for Redding to build you a custom one... Then by all means have at it. I'm just trying to save you some cash and a few headaches.
 
i take look at what is posted here and combine it all to come to my own conclusions. there appears that there is experience behind what is posted in this thread and i do not discount that. i am not bent on spending money if it will not benefit me. i usually only start threads if i am trying to get experienced opinions.

i had no intent of using a bushing die for forming, only neck sizing after they have been fireformed.
 


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