17HMR vs 22MAG - Lets end the debate

As stated by those who know better, this one will NEVER end! My heavy barreled 22mag will shoot 50gr Federal JHP's into sub half inch groups at 100yds. I have put three shots touching each other at this range more times than I can remember. If forced to yote hunt with a rimfire, this is the load. Much more substantial than anything going down the tube of a 17HMR, which I personally would not even consider using.---2MG
 
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17HMR, True Killer unbeatable accuracy and devasting terminal effects!



Yeah, right....on really small little critters. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


-BCB
 
Did any of you actually READ the original post? He suggested that we come up with ideas for an actual, real world comparison to determine which is most effective. The reason this debate goes on is because no one has any verifiable test results on the subject. All anyone that I've ever seen post on these threads have is their own biased opinion, or something like.. "My friends, uncles, dog, shot a yote the other day with his HMR at ten feet and that yote just laughed at him and ran off". This is hardly verifiable proof of a caliber's effectiveness.

Let's get back to the original post and give it a whirl. I'll start by giving my argument for an HMR.....

We would probably all agree that a .243 Win. is adequate for killing mule deer sized game out to say 300 yards right (yes there might be better, but it will do)???
At 300 yards a .243 with 100 grain bullets generates roughly 1173 ft lbs. of energy. On a 250 lb deer that divides into 4.692 ft lbs. of energy per pound of live animal.
At 100 yards an HMR with a 17 grain bullet generates about 136 ft lbs. of energy. With an average western coyote weighing in at about 25 lbs. that turns into 5.44 pounds of kinetic energy per pound of live coyote.
Wait a minute, that means that......oh my goodness, a .17 HMR might just have the nuts to kill a coyote at a hundred yards, maybe even a better chance (4.692 vs. 5.44) than a .243 does of killing a muley at 300???? Huh???
Well, a .22 mag will do that to, so I haven't proven which of the two is better, but I think I have an argument for why the HMR will work at moderate distances, and also a pretty good arguments against the guy who's buddies, uncle "hit im right in the ribs and it bounced right of at 30 yards." There might be more than meets the eye to that type of story....like poor shot placement that someone doesn't want to admit.
I personally have killed seven coyotes with a 17 HMR (more real world testing instead of unverifiable opinions). All were shot at or under 100 yards, and not one made it more than a few steps before piling up. No an HMR won't blow them to kingdom come like say a .50 BMG, and no it won't reach out and get one at even 200 yards, but it will get the job done withing it's effective range, no doubt about it.

Have fun boys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
There are a few sites on the web that offer recipes for making your own ballistic gelatin. Making the gelatin and setting up a test with photos and measurements shouldn't be diificult for those who own both calibers. Come on guys....lets have at it!!
 
SteveM, Answer: on those critters, Jack Rabbits and such that it was (is) intended to destroy. Not at (not wishing to start another war) coyotes. We have a ton of stuff in West Texas that is ample fodder for the 17HMR that is perfect. The 17 is a GREAT Wabbit Weapon!

I was just having a bit 'o fun on a topic that really stirs 'em up on here!
 
utahheadgear,

Seems to me your the only one with a clue what the post is trying to accomplish, it isn't that i don't value your guys opinions, i really do think your opinions make these forums what they are..FANTASTIC!!

I don't have access to a 22MAG but i do have access to a 17HMR and i am looking into trying my own ballistic gelatin, here is what i found so far: http://www.myscienceproject.org/gelatin.html

Sure hope we can get our own PM Ballistic Test and disseminate the results for everyone to see.

Thanks
 
270yotekiller, my rambleings wernt directed to you, i respect your test, and would like to help. ive just read to many of the "killed 35 coyotes at 8 miles with my hmr", and kept my mouth shut. im better now... i swear.
the balistic gelatin is a good idea, but the enernal question is how do you simulate bone, or atleast ribs? (beef or pork ribs would be too big)
that gives me an idea... i could get a few coyote carcasses and put the balistic gelatin inside and hang an old hide over the whole thing. would that be a real world test?
 
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Its good to see the debate has once again been rescued by some logical "in the know" souls on the forum who will now lead it to a constructive and definitive conclusion for all to bask in.......just like the last 432 bi-weekly threads on this same subject... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Good luck, troops.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

-BCB
 
I think it is to close to call. They are both good for what they are designed for. I have both and like both. I would rather use a centerfire for coyotes (just moved here from another state and had to sell my .243 because I can not use it). Where I live I only have access to a couple of WMAs and a military installation. Both places will only let you use a rimfires for coyotes and both places have a good population of coyotes. So either I use a rimfire or not hunt coyotes at all. When hunting coyotes with a rimfire you have to set some limitations like keep the shot to within 100 yards or less and only take shots that you are sure of your shot placement.
 
Okay Broknaero, I'll buy your hogwash theory about some poor kid that gets the wrong idea, and throw it right back in your face, you are claiming that that same snot nosed kid can't go coyote hunting if all he happens to be able to afford or get his hands on is an HMR because it's not enough gun, when you have NEVER Actually tested your theory. So instead he never gets a chance to get the taste of hunting in his mounth that we all have, and goes on to something else never to look back. Get real man, that's ridiculous. This thread has nothing to do with snot nosed kids.
I KNOW for a fact that the HMR will effectively kill coyotes for me. How do I know? Because I have actually done it. You, on the other hand have no idea what it will do and unfortunately for you, you never will.

Here's some more testing I've done. Shot a coyote with that wimpy little 17 HMR one day at 66 yards measured with a lazer rangefinder(if I'm not lying, of course) that was quartering sharply towards me. He dropped like a sack of chit, and I picked him up. I then took him home and skinned him to see how the bullet did. Turns out the bullet entered in front of the left front shoulder and I found particles of the bullet under the hide behind the last rib on the off side, there was also indications that pieces of the bullet had exited the other side in the same general area. If that isn't enough penetration I don't know what is. I was impressed, I didn't expect that type of performance, but I did ACTUALLY get that type of performance. Huh?? who woulda thought?

.270, let me know if you need any help with the test, I'd be happy to make a trip to the range, I have the same problem you do though. I don't have a .22 mag either......hmmm, maybe I'll have to fix that problem. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I love this debate. It really makes for interesting reading. I own both a 17HMR and 22WMR. Love them both. BOTH very accurate and both well deisgned for what they were designed for. BUT then again isnt that the real question? JUST EXECTALLY what are they designed for. I can tell you that my 22WMR will lay a coy/stray dog down very quickly. My 17HMR while it does a very good if not messsy job on feral cats, I havnt tried it on anything dog/yote size yet and I am not sure I want to. I mean any shot that will collapse the lungs or destroy the heart or cause massive internal bleeding will do the job and cause whatever you shot to give up the ghost. BUT the real trick is how fast you can accomplish that. I mean everyone likes a bang flop and runoffs are a pain in da butt and if you want to stack fur you dont want a huge hole in your pelts. Thats why there are so many diffrent calibers and bullet weights. So you can choose for your specific application. With the 17 and 22 I say use them, for the ethical hunter it will make him/her pay attention to where they place there shot and maybe make them a better marksman.
 
which is the consistent yote killer?
scenario: yote standing broadside, 100 yds away, 2 guys are the shooters,both are excellent marksman, one has a 17 hmr the other a 22mag, now the question. you have a 100 dollar bill which one are you going to bet on, which is the more sure thing?
 
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which is the consistent yote killer?
scenario: yote standing broadside, 100 yds away, 2 guys are the shooters,both are excellent marksman, one has a 17 hmr the other a 22mag, now the question. you have a 100 dollar bill which one are you going to bet on, which is the more sure thing?



It depends on who has the Remington and who has the CZ...OOOP's another can of worms....
This is going nowhere!!!
"IT'S THE SCOPE GUYS".....LOL!!!!
 
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