22-250 vs. 223

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It seems many people are comparing the 223 and 22-250 as if they are the same. They aren't. Its like compaing a V8 350" to a V6 250" engine. If you don't tow a car trailer or want to race every one then you can get away with using the quieter, more economical, smaller V6. But don't try to use a V6 like a V8 'cause it won't do it and you will be dissappointed.



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Good analogy.
 
Very well said Happy Hunter.

A 223 will always suck hind tit to a 22-250, no two ways about it. I reload both and shoot both and can honestly say the 223 has real limitations in open country. If I had to part with one, the 223 would be going down the road.

I have yet to burn out a 22-250 at 1300 rounds, in fact we have one here that has at least three or four times that run through it and it still shoots excellent groups.

The 22-250 has versaltility allowing you to back off your reloads to lackluster 223 performance for pdogs, fox etc. If your going for big yotes or long range varminting you have the option to load hot and use the muscle you have in reserve. Can't do that with a 223.

If you sit somewhere burning up round after round with a hot barrel you'll burn most any barrel, kind of like keeping the gas pedal floored on that V8 after you redline the tach. Use a little common sense and a 22-250 will last you a long time.
 
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Hi brdeano,
So let me get this straight. You're saying that for the extra legs n thump of a 22-250 you burn a bit more powder, it heats up quicker and you might burn a barrel quicker.

Well, if you don't need the extra legs, don't use it. If you do need the extra legs, use it.

It seems many people are comparing the 223 and 22-250 as if they are the same. They aren't. Its like compaing a V8 350" to a V6 250" engine. If you don't tow a car trailer or want to race every one then you can get away with using the quieter, more economical, smaller V6. But don't try to use a V6 like a V8 'cause it won't do it and you will be dissappointed.



I have both and that is an option I can happily live with. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If a yote can discern a difference in velocity of 200 fps more power too him. I am not bashing the 22-250 and saying the 223AI is the end-all predator rifle. I am saying a fast twist 223AI closes the gap on a like built 22-250 that is shooting the same bullet more than people think. And that info comes from shooting both side by side, not from something I read on the internet.

When it can close that gap by using less powder, 2-3 times the barrel life, and enough difference in recoil to have the ability to spot your own hits through the scope (I like to do this, might not be important too you). I cant see where a 24% increase in powder is worth a 7% (200 fps) increase in velocity.

To each his own. I wanted both, I built both, shot both, and have formed my opinion. Which is, between a fast twist 223AI and a fast twist 22-250 shooting the same bullet, the 223AI is all I need to shoot a yote with, and if for some reason I need an extra 200 FPS I will just use the 22-250 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif. That is only my opinion of my 2 rifles side by side though. Not trying to argue with you, just stating my observations. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

I will have to agree with you if you are talking factory rifles with factory ammo. If you start talking custom rifles with twist rates suited to your bullet of choice and handloading, that is where that line in the sand between the two becomes a little blurred. Anyway, have a good one, I have to call it a day, I have a rough day of ice fishing ahead of me tomorrow.
 
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If you reload it will cost you a little less than double to shoot the 22-250.



Huh? At 7000 grains to the pound and 10 grains difference between a the two, that equals about 1.4 cents per bullet. How is that " a little less than double? Primers = .02 ea, bullet = .16 ea, powder = 3.9 cents to 5.2 cents ea. 1.3 cents isn't close to double the cost for reloading.

FWIW.
 
Hey All =

Thanks for the in-depth analysis and variety of opinions. It is all good stuff, and I'll weigh it carefully. At present, with a CZ550 and AR-15 in 223, I am "thinking" about the next step, if any.

Stay tuned, super forum, good poop, happy hunting!

Red Moose
 
Long or short range the 22-250 is a more decisive killer. Where a coyote shot with my 223 will many times spin or bolt a ways, the 22-250 typically puts them down on the spot with the same bullets.

No comparison.

Picture014.jpg
 
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I am saying a fast twist 223AI closes the gap on a like built 22-250 that is shooting the same bullet more than people think.



Your talking a custom cartridge versus factory, "like built" would mean a custom chambered 22-250.

Should the need arise I can buy factory loads anywhere for the 22-250 and still have a significant advantage in every respect over a reloaded 223 or 223AI.

Please post the load you are referring to for both the 22-250 and the 223. I chrono all my stuff and base my opinions on performance as experienced in the field.
 
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I am saying a fast twist 223AI closes the gap on a like built 22-250 that is shooting the same bullet more than people think.



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Your talking a custom cartridge versus factory, "like built" would mean a custom chambered 22-250.



That is what I was comparing, a 223AI to a 22-250. I have both chamberings, both 22" barrel's, both 8 twist, both shooting 75 Amax, both using the same powder. But, as you pointed out a 223AI is a different animal than a 223, and fast twist 22-250 shooting heavy for caliber, high B.C. bullets is a totally different rifle than a 12 twist remington shooting 50 grainers. I am not a "light bullet at warp speed 9" kind of guy. You can't honestly say that a 22-250 shooting 50's has more thump or retained energy than a 223AI or 22-250 shooting heavy high B.C. bullets. The 22-250 does have the edge in horsepower here too, but it is minimal and offset by the other factors to me. If raw horsepower and speed were the only factor involved, we would all be shooting a 22-243AI and all other 22 centerfires be damned.

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Should the need arise I can buy factory loads anywhere for the 22-250 and still have a significant advantage in every respect over a reloaded 223 or 223AI.


I hear alot of people talk about being able to buy ammo at any store. I havn't bought any factory ammo for any rifle in a loooong time, and can't think of one time when I have forgot/lost/ran out of ammo on a trip. BUT I have to agree with you 100% that if we were on a trip and you had a 22-250 and I had my 223AI (or 223) and we had to stop and buy ammo for some insane reason, you would have a better tool for the job. But have you ever had that need arise?

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Please post the load you are referring to for both the 22-250 and the 223. I chrono all my stuff and base my opinions on performance as experienced in the field.



I am shooting the 75 Amax in both rifles. 3100 out of the 223AI w/27 gr. '15. 3300 out of the 22-250 w/35gr. '15. Both loads were chronod from 60* down to 20*. The '250 load is a bit warm at 50*+, No pressure signs in the winter, I will likely back it off to keep the velocity in the 3300 range in the summer time. Here are the loads in question.

100_1056.jpg


I am not trying the knock the 22-250. I have more of them than a guy really needs. I do like the extra thump of the 22-250 if the situation calls for it, such as a 250yd shot on a meat buck. There are guys out there who would swear up and down that using a 22-250 on deer is stunt shooting and I was undergunned. Before you knock the dink buck, I shot my 11pt with the bow earlier in the season /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RifleBuckcropped.jpg


There really isn't going to be an answer to which is "better." When I add up all the pros/cons of each the 223AI shooting heavy bullets works for me. But, I also have 3 other 22-250's that I still use when I want too. Maybe we should all just use a 243 or 25-06, and be done with it. And here I tell myself I won't get involved in which caliber is better post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Have a good day guys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Brad,
No dink, a meat buck is a meat buck, can't eat the horns. Do I see a yote standing behind you? Sure looks like one from the picture.
 
He is a Blue Heeler, but thinks he is a 'yote sometimes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif. You should see him stalking rabbits and squirrels. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gifHere is a better pic.

100_1033.jpg


100_1038.jpg
 
You really can't compare the 22-250 and the 223 they are miles apart.For the average shooting I think the 223 will do in most all situations.
Just so happens I have a liking for rifles(lots and lots of rifles) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
When comparing two similar calibers I look at equal weight comparison. I.E. with a 50gr SP the .22-250 is hands down better than a .223. If I WANT to shoot anything bigger I'll go with a gun DESIGNED to shoot bigger bullets (like a 6mm or 25-06) I have personnaly killed Caribou with a .223 (weapon of opportunity.) Also killed mule deer with .22-250 55gr remington PSP's. If it will knock down a 300lb Bou a .223 will handle a yote. If it will handle a 150lb Mulie a .22-250 will handle a yote. Bottom line is get what you're comfortable with and will enjoy. In the end it's your rifle and your hobby. Buy what you want and don't look back.
 
Hi brdeano,
That dog is an Australian Blue Cattle Dog or Blue Heeler. They were bred to round up cattle and nip at their heels (Hence the name Heeler). A fine dog if you want a guard/family/companion dog. They have a bit of Australian native dingo in them too. They also come in red.

They are one of the most common dogs here in Aus.

Because they are a herding dog, if you put 'em in with chickens they mostly run them up and down the fence 'til the chickens die of exhaustion. When you get home they just look at you and say I didn't touch 'em, they just died.

They are so willing to serve that even though they aren't the smartest dog on the block they are easily trained.

Enjoy. Most Aussies do.
 
This thread started off comparing a basic 22-250 to a basic 223 of which there is no comparison. How it got off to 75 grain bullets and ackley improved is beyond me.

If I need to go to a heavy bullet I just load 80 grainers in the 243 @ 3400FPS

For me loading heavy bullets in any flat shooting cartridge, be it a 243, 22-250, 223, 270 etc is defeating the purpose.

There is an old gas station in the middle of the Red Desert miles and miles from anything else. Bought a little fuel and talked a little with the old gentleman, the only person there. On his ammo shelf he carried 30.06,270,243,22-250 and 22 long rifle. Said that's all he carried and pointed out if a person couldn't kill what they were after with one of those, they didn't need to be hunting, made sense to me.

I bet my Blue Healer can beat up your Blue Healer....just kidding. They're awesome dogs. Have to figure out how to keep mine from healing the lawnmower and sprinklers.
 
Brdeano and Wocoyoter,
If you want to know how to stop your Blue Heeler from chasing the mower, vacuum, rake, broom etc. Its easy get rid of the mower, vacuum, broom and rake. It is the only simple answer. guys. As an Aussi I have been in close contact with heaps of Blue Cattle dogs and they all do it. That is a the dumb part of them.

Enjoy

PS. Is this off topic - Yes. Is it interesting - Yes.
 
OK, question on Swapping barrels..Right now my 22-250 has a BB on it, can I buy a sporter barrel and screw it in as well? I imagine the reciver is the same regardless of barrel?
 
It got off to Ackley Improved and heavy bullets because that's the ONLY way you can make a .223 compare well (ballistically) to a .22-.250.;0)) I saw this happen also in a thread about the .223 vs. the .204. Sure super heavy bullets will do well (even better than .204) in the wind IF you don't mind having to buy a super fast twist barrel (for those heavy bullets), IF you don't mind having a rainbow trajectory an archer would hold his nose up at and IF you don't mind having less than explosive terminal performance at impact. Somehow these things seemed to be overlooked!;0)
Do NOT entirely agree with the guy you mentioned selling the ammo. His argument was kind of "convenient" too. He didn't carry .223's (not mentioned in your list) and apparently, he wasn't aware of their capabilities as a prairie dog cartridge (assuming he didn't see it as necessary for coyotes). The rest of his lineup was a good one though--if however limited.
Good post!
 
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