.22-250

bamarammin87

bamarammin87

New member
I am selling my Howa .308 and buying another just like it in .22-250, as strictly a coyote gun, because I want to upgrade from my .17hmr. My question is, is a 22 inch barrel with 1:14 twist decent for this round? It's a number 2 countour, not the heavy barrel. I dont reload and dont see myself reloading so I will be using factory stuff. 50 and 55 grain stuff probably. I don't know much about this caliber other than some articles I've read. I won't be shooting more than 350 yards with it. Thanks guys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Those figures are quite typical for a factory .22-250 rifle. You should have no problems shooting bullets in the 40 to 55 grain range.
 
bamarammin87, IMHO a 22-250 needs a 24in barrel to really do what it is capable of. A 22in will shoot fine but some of the powders used in the 250 can use the extra 2 in. I've had several 250's in 14 twist and anything over 55gr at around 3600fps or over was starting to make the groups open up. Of course there are many other opinions on twist and barrel length here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I would be looking for at least a 24" barrel. Number 4 is a very good 22 250 barrel contour. Stiff enough for very good accuracy and light enough for carry.

I have a carry rifle a 600 Mohawk that has a number three contour on it and I wouldn't want to go any lighter. By the way it's a 12 twist 26".
 
Quote:
bamarammin87, I've had several 250's in 14 twist and anything over 55gr at around 3600fps or over was starting to make the groups open up.



Do you mean a higher grain would make it open up, or a higher velocity? Some of the 50 grain stuff is around 3800.
 
A combination of. Heavier bullets and high velocity with that twist can cause detrimental effects on your grouping. A 40 to 55 gr bullet should shoot fine. I've shot 40 grainers well above 4000 with good accuracy. Right now I shoot a 52 gr at 3824 fps. Every gun has it's own sweet spot. I just wouldn't count on shooting much above a 55 grainer at near max loads and getting tight groups. But you never know until you try it. I have a AR 1:8 twist .223 that like 40 grainers so go figure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif Don't know which can be worse overspin or underspin.
 
My Remington 700 SPS stainless in .22-250 came with a 24" 1-14 twist barrel. It shoots well under 1MOA with factory 55 grain bullets. My reloads using 55 grain Sierra Game King BTHP's at 3500 FPS will often go 5 shots in .5 inch.
I'm thinking there's not much wrong with a 24" 1-14 twist barrel.

Coyote 6974
 
bamarammin87,

Don't sweat the twist rate, especially since you said you want to stay with 50-55 grain bullets. 1 in 14 is the "standard" .224 twist rate, and has been for eon's. This push toward very fast twist barrels like 1 in 9, 1 in 8, is a comparatively recent trend that has only started in the last 10 to 15 or so years from what I remember, and stems from the availability of all the new heavy-for-caliber bullets, (i.e, above 60 grain) developed for long range competition shooting. You'll have no trouble at all with 55 grain bullets, and you should even be able to shoot 60gr bullets out of it as well should you want to.

The 22" barrel will cost you 200-300 fps at most, compared to a 26" tube, but it will make the rifle more handy in tight cover... give a little, take a little, there's no way around it. The coyotes probably won't be able to tell any difference /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif. In the accuracy department, it really shouldn't matter at all.

Let us know how you like the Howa... I've got a 1500 Lightning in 30-06 that I really like. I've been thinking about picking up another one in a more "varmint friendly" caliber... but I've also become one of those Savage guys also... so it's a tough decision /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Quote:
Don't know which can be worse overspin or underspin.



If you ask me, they're both bad... "Overspin" can cause the bullet to fail before it ever reaches the target... "underspin" doesn't stabilize the bullet, and who knows where it will go. Either one is a wasted bullet.

From everything I've read, there is no "more stable/less stable" as far as bullet stability is concerned... it just is stable, or it isn't stable. IIRC, most of the prevailing wisdom on this subject is that the slowest twist that spins the bullet just fast enough to make it stable will be the one with the most potential for best accuracy. That makes sense to me... but as you can see, there's a lot of guys pushing little bullets pretty hard out of fast twist barrels getting very good accuracy... so who really knows? If it works, it works. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with a 14 twist... get it and sleep like a baby.
 
Wow, on this same site not four months ago I had five people telling me a 1-14" was too slow for a 55 grain bullet and that I should shoot 52 grain or less. I was also told that a 1-12" was as slow as a 55gr would allow. I had achieved MOA groups with 55gr Blitzkings in the 1-14", but nothing better.


Now I am left guessing. Reckon I'll just throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks.............
 
I don't know why someone would say that a 14 twist is too slow for a 55gr bullet... especially out of a 22-250 or a 220 Swift, unless, as I think about it, maybe it's this: (please forgive me as I think into my keyboard...)

These "new generation" bullets like the BlitzKings, Vmax'es, Ballistic Tips... are unusually long for their weight, meaning that, for example, a 55gr BK is a lot longer bullet than a "conventional" 55gr Spitzer. Compare these 2 bullets: A Sierra 55gr BK is only about .018" IIRC shorter than a Sierra 65gr Spitzer Boat Tail... a "conventional" spitzer bullet, 10 grains heavier.

As you know, the spin rate (rpm) required to stabilize a bullet of a given caliber is dependent on the bullet length, NOT it's weight (it just happens to be that a heavier bullet is usually longer than a lighter one, and thus the correlation has developed... but again, look at the "new generation" bullets next to their "conventional" cousins... so you can see that it isn't a hard, fast rule) A longer bullet requires more RPM's to stabilize than a shorter bullet. So, for any given twist rate, these "new gen" bullets must be fired at a higher velocity than their "coventional" counterparts in order to be spun fast enough by the rifling to stabilize. So, it could be possible that something like a 222/223 might not be able to push one of these "new gen" 55 grainers fast enough out of a 14 twist to stabilize it because it is so much longer than the old "conventional" spitzers, which would stabilize just fine out of a 14 twist, even at 222/223 velocities. Since the .222 family (just for this discussion's sake) can't push the "new gen" 55gr fast enough, we instead give it a faster twist so that it can generate the rpm's we need to stabilize with the velocity that we can generate.

So possibly, that could be where the "14 twist is too slow for 55gr bullets" advice could have come from.

I don't have any 223 experience since I don't have one, but I remember that my Ruger 77VT in 22PPC (with the right powders, about midway between a .223 and a 22-250 performance-wise) with it's 14 twist barrel does NOT like 55gr Vmax'es at all with any powder I've tried, but it's a consistent .3ish grouper with the 50gr Vmax. Possibly for the same reason as above..?

Perhaps, we should preface it by saying that a 14 twist is just fine for "conventional" bullets up to 55gr and possibly 60 grains depending on your chambering/muzzle velocity... and up to 50gr "new generation" bullets, possibly up to 55-60 gr, again depending on your chambering/muzzle velocity.

I'll have to get my Dad's Remington 788 in 22-250 with it's 14 twist barrel (my Savage 22-250 is a 12 twist), and load up some 55gr BK's and see what happens... he's always shot only "conventional" 55gr spitzers out of it ever since the mid-late 60's when he bought that rifle new. And I know that as a young kid/teenager, I've walked out to pick up 450-500 yard groundhogs too many times to believe that a 14 twist won't stabilize a 55gr bullet... it most certainly will... but maybe not these new-fangled plastic tipped missiles...

Anyone out there have troubles stabilizing a 55gr BlitzKing, Vmax, or Ballistic Tip out of a 14 twist 22-250 or 220 Swift?
 
The 50gr BlitzKing and 50gr V-Max bullets are longer than the 55gr softpoints.

I can tell you from much personal experence that the at 223 velocities, a 14" twist will NOT stabilize a 55gr plastic tip bullet, after watching my 14" twist benchrest rifle make 7" and 8" groups at 100 yds with the 55gr BK and V-Maxs.

At 22-250/220 Swift velocities, you "might" be able to use 55gr plastic tip bullets, but you can NOT use the 60gr plastic tip bullets.

I have not been able to get decent accuracy out of two .22-250s with 55gr BKs or V-Maxs. ~1.2" was typical, when the 50gr equivalents would do half of that

With the popularity of the heavier plastic tip bullets, I would not buy a .224 14" twist barrel again



.
 
+1 RileyLake!!!! You preach it!!!

My custom 223 Hart 1-14 stabalizes the 55g Nosler into 1/4-3/8" groups, but the Sierra Blitz king is another story. I have not tried the 55g V Max.

Catshooter knows what he is talking about, I for one, listen to his advise.
 
Hmmmmmm

I have heard that some 1-14" wont stabilize 55g NBT or Blitz because of the length. However, my Rem 700 ADL, in .222 rem WILL shoot the 55g VMAX and NBT into .5" at 100 yards. So go figure. There only doing 3100fps. I am 95% sure my triple deuce is a 1-14" and not a 1-12" It will hold that accuracy to 400 yards, producing 1.5"-2" groups on my steel gong. The 55g vmax is not a BT and its shorter then the NBT and Blitz anyway.

1-14" will not stabilize a 60g vmax, that I do know. I had a Swift with a 1-14" that wouldn't shoot them better then 2" at 100 yards and thats pushing them to 3700fps...
 
My dad has a Ruger target in 22-250 w/1-14" and I"ll load some 55g vmax and NBT in his and see how it fares. Right now hes using 40g vmax. He wants to use the 55g's for coyotes as these 40's were loaded to shoot Pdogs and he still has a couple hundred left. I"ll see how they do with 55's though and post my findings in a week or two...

On a nother sidenote, I also had a Ruger Target w/1-14" in a 220 Swift and it shot lights out with 55g NBT's. 3925fps w/IMR-4064 and coyotes hated it. It would hold 1/2 MOA to 500 yards quite regularly.
 
So, I gather that the Nosler BT's are somewhat shorter than both the Vmax'es and the BK's then? How do they perform on coyotes?

I've not tried the Nosler's, and just played a bit with the Vmax's in my 22PPC. But my bench is covered with green Sierra boxes, and that's what I'm most familiar with. When I got my 22-250, I went straight to the 55gr BlitzKings, and it shoots them very well... but about every 3rd coyote I shot with them would run off and either require a 2nd shot to put it down or it would just escape. After having that happen too many times, I decided to try the Sierra 65gr SBT's... What a great coyote bullet... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif I don't think I could ask for more. I highly, highly recommend the Sierra 65gr SBT. Although I can't push them quite as fast, they shoot *almost* as flat as the 55gr BK's did. And they take coyotes a LOT better.
 
No. The vmax is the shortest of the bunch, then the NBT, and finally the BLITZ being the longest.

I loved the 55g NBT's out of my swift for coyotes at 3925fps. They always left silver dollar size holes, and most were DRT from 50-500 yards. I've only shot 1 coyote with the 55g NBT out of my .222 @3100fps so far as I"ve always used 40g vmax or NBT (just recently been playing with the 55's out of it), range was about 125 yards, and it to left about a silver dollar size hole, after entering the onside shoulder and exiting the brisket, resulting in a DRT yote. I'm not much into pelts so I could care less about holes. That just means the bullet did its job IMO. Makes tracking easier if thats the case, but usually they are DRT. The NBT is actually touger then the vmax and the blitz due to its "solid base" design. I think you would end up liking them out of your 22-250. Maybe you should give them a try on a few and see for yourself!
 
If you can find and your gun will shoot a 52/53 SMK loaded for the 22-250 you should give them a try. That is what I went to last year in my swift and it was pretty good on the coyotes.
 
Now now, we all know those SMK"s cant kill game worth a hoot. Sierra "says so", LOL. Put it in the right place like any other bullet, and yes they will do just fine. Easier on pelts then the plastic tip bullets.
 


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