Hot Pursuit
New member
I was wondering if anyone had any info or sites for loads,velocities etc. for this gun. Any info would be of help. Thanks in advance.
.22-6mm ackley improved
- Thread starter Hot Pursuit
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2muchgun
New member
http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=101
You can start and work up with these. There is a Ross Seyfried article in last months American rifleman also. Also, Flybuster knows some guys who shoot them......
You can start and work up with these. There is a Ross Seyfried article in last months American rifleman also. Also, Flybuster knows some guys who shoot them......
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
I was wondering if anyone had any info or sites for loads,velocities etc. for this gun. Any info would be of help. Thanks in advance.
It's a minor point, but to be an Ackley Improved, it MUST be made from a factory cartridge that can be fired in the improved chamber... there is no factory .22-6mm Rem, so there is no 22-6mm Rem Ackley Improved.
It is just the 22-6mm Rem.
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I was wondering if anyone had any info or sites for loads,velocities etc. for this gun. Any info would be of help. Thanks in advance.
It's a minor point, but to be an Ackley Improved, it MUST be made from a factory cartridge that can be fired in the improved chamber... there is no factory .22-6mm Rem, so there is no 22-6mm Rem Ackley Improved.
It is just the 22-6mm Rem.
.
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
P.O. Ackley improved various wildcat cartridges also......
I have both of Ackley's books.
Which ones??
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P.O. Ackley improved various wildcat cartridges also......
I have both of Ackley's books.
Which ones??
.
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
"... Either way, they still call the various wildcats AI's, and we all know what is meant......"
Here's the problem with what you say...
In those days, there were a lot of 'smiths making improved cartridges - some were better smiths than Ackley, but Ackley was a better salesman.
There was Mashburn, and his improved cases were different than Ackley. The Mashburn case had a 35° case, while Ackley used a 40° case.
So when you say, "and we all know what is meant" , we all DON'T know what is meant. If it has a 35° shoulder, it is NOT an "AI", it is a Mashburn!! This applies to many of the thousands of wildcats out there, both improved and formed.
It is easy (and tempting) to throw around names like these, and try to sound like an expert... but it is meaningless if what is said, doesn't match what really is.
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"... Either way, they still call the various wildcats AI's, and we all know what is meant......"
Here's the problem with what you say...
In those days, there were a lot of 'smiths making improved cartridges - some were better smiths than Ackley, but Ackley was a better salesman.
There was Mashburn, and his improved cases were different than Ackley. The Mashburn case had a 35° case, while Ackley used a 40° case.
So when you say, "and we all know what is meant" , we all DON'T know what is meant. If it has a 35° shoulder, it is NOT an "AI", it is a Mashburn!! This applies to many of the thousands of wildcats out there, both improved and formed.
It is easy (and tempting) to throw around names like these, and try to sound like an expert... but it is meaningless if what is said, doesn't match what really is.
.
2muchgun
New member
I think you are making this way harder than it is. We are talking about AI's here, and AI's only. Nobody mentioned anything else. Why would you assume otherwise? Last I checked, the dies on my friends 7mm Mashburn said "7mm Mashburn" on them. Just as the Ackley Improved ones say "AI". I am well aware of the fact that some cartridges are "improved" and some are "Ackley Improved".
I would still like to know if Ackley improved the 25-06, or 22-250, or 35 Whelen that were still unavailable in factory form at the time, as i do not have any of his books.....
I would still like to know if Ackley improved the 25-06, or 22-250, or 35 Whelen that were still unavailable in factory form at the time, as i do not have any of his books.....
CatShooter
New member
The 35 Whelen is not noted as an AI, it is the "35 Whelen Imp."
I think you have missed the meaning of what I said.
You cannot "tag" AI on to any cartridge... there are thousands and thousands of wildcats, and probably half of them are some variation of "improved", and 90% of those, Ackley never heard of.
If you throw "Ackley Improved" on the end of every improved case you come across, then what you say has no meaning.
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I think you have missed the meaning of what I said.
You cannot "tag" AI on to any cartridge... there are thousands and thousands of wildcats, and probably half of them are some variation of "improved", and 90% of those, Ackley never heard of.
If you throw "Ackley Improved" on the end of every improved case you come across, then what you say has no meaning.
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2muchgun
New member
I understand what you are saying. And you are correct. My point was just that if you have a 35 Whelen Improved 40 degrees, and someone calls it an AI, most know what they mean. It can be substituted for "improved 40 degrees", and often is. Now if it not 40 degrees, I would not call it an AI....
Please answer my last question, though, if you can. Is the 25-06AI a true AI?
Please answer my last question, though, if you can. Is the 25-06AI a true AI?
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
Please answer my last question, though, if you can. Is the 25-06AI a true AI?
It is listed as such, but I doubt it.
Here is a list of Ackley Improved and Ackley cartridges...
* .17 Ackley Hornet, a .22 Ackley Hornet necked down to .17 caliber (4.5mm)
* .17 Ackley Bee, a .218 Improved Bee necked down to .17 caliber (4.5mm)
* .22 Ackley Improved Hornet, an improved .22 Hornet
* .218 Ackley Improved Bee, and improved .218 Bee
* .22/.30-30 Ackley Improved, a .30-30 Ackley Improved necked down to .22 caliber (5.56mm)
* .228 Ackley Magnum, made by shortening and necking down .308 Winchester or .30-06 Springfield brass; the .228 caliber (5.8mm) bullets are hard to find, but provide far greater weight than .223 caliber bullets, up to 100 grains (6.5g)
* 6mm/.30-30 Improved, a .30-30 Ackley Improved necked down to 6mm (.243)
* .243 Ackely Improved, an improved .243 Winchester
* .25 Ackley Krag, a .30-40 Krag necked down to .25 caliber (6.2mm)
* .25 Ackley Krag Short, a slightly shortened .25 Ackley Krag
* .250-3000 Ackley Improved, an improved .250-3000 Savage
* .257 Ackley Improved, an improved .257 Roberts
* .30-30 Ackley Improved, an improved .30-30 Winchester
* .30-06 Ackley Improved, an improved .30-06 Springfield
* .30 Ackley Magnum No. 1 and No. 2 short, based on the Holland & Holland belted magnum, the No. 2 version designed to fit in standard length actions (.30-06 class)
* .35 Ackley Magnum No. 1 and No. 2 short, based on the .30 Ackley Magnum cases; there is also an Improved version of the No. 2.
* .475 Ackley Magnum, based on a .375 H&H Magnum necked up to .475 (12mm)
You can note that the cartridges that are not made from fireforming are not called "improved" but are called "Ackley Magnums".
Also note that there is no .22-6mm AI listed.
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Please answer my last question, though, if you can. Is the 25-06AI a true AI?
It is listed as such, but I doubt it.
Here is a list of Ackley Improved and Ackley cartridges...
* .17 Ackley Hornet, a .22 Ackley Hornet necked down to .17 caliber (4.5mm)
* .17 Ackley Bee, a .218 Improved Bee necked down to .17 caliber (4.5mm)
* .22 Ackley Improved Hornet, an improved .22 Hornet
* .218 Ackley Improved Bee, and improved .218 Bee
* .22/.30-30 Ackley Improved, a .30-30 Ackley Improved necked down to .22 caliber (5.56mm)
* .228 Ackley Magnum, made by shortening and necking down .308 Winchester or .30-06 Springfield brass; the .228 caliber (5.8mm) bullets are hard to find, but provide far greater weight than .223 caliber bullets, up to 100 grains (6.5g)
* 6mm/.30-30 Improved, a .30-30 Ackley Improved necked down to 6mm (.243)
* .243 Ackely Improved, an improved .243 Winchester
* .25 Ackley Krag, a .30-40 Krag necked down to .25 caliber (6.2mm)
* .25 Ackley Krag Short, a slightly shortened .25 Ackley Krag
* .250-3000 Ackley Improved, an improved .250-3000 Savage
* .257 Ackley Improved, an improved .257 Roberts
* .30-30 Ackley Improved, an improved .30-30 Winchester
* .30-06 Ackley Improved, an improved .30-06 Springfield
* .30 Ackley Magnum No. 1 and No. 2 short, based on the Holland & Holland belted magnum, the No. 2 version designed to fit in standard length actions (.30-06 class)
* .35 Ackley Magnum No. 1 and No. 2 short, based on the .30 Ackley Magnum cases; there is also an Improved version of the No. 2.
* .475 Ackley Magnum, based on a .375 H&H Magnum necked up to .475 (12mm)
You can note that the cartridges that are not made from fireforming are not called "improved" but are called "Ackley Magnums".
Also note that there is no .22-6mm AI listed.
.
Quote:
Quote:
I was wondering if anyone had any info or sites for loads,velocities etc. for this gun. Any info would be of help. Thanks in advance.
It's a minor point, but to be an Ackley Improved, it MUST be made from a factory cartridge that can be fired in the improved chamber... there is no factory .22-6mm Rem, so there is no 22-6mm Rem Ackley Improved.
It is just the 22-6mm Rem.
.
I hate to disagree with you but in Ackley's book they mention a 7-06 Improved Ackley,22-30/30 Improved Ackley, 333Mag Improved Ackley,35-.348 Improved Ackley so it was OK to neck up or down.
Quote:
I was wondering if anyone had any info or sites for loads,velocities etc. for this gun. Any info would be of help. Thanks in advance.
It's a minor point, but to be an Ackley Improved, it MUST be made from a factory cartridge that can be fired in the improved chamber... there is no factory .22-6mm Rem, so there is no 22-6mm Rem Ackley Improved.
It is just the 22-6mm Rem.
.
I hate to disagree with you but in Ackley's book they mention a 7-06 Improved Ackley,22-30/30 Improved Ackley, 333Mag Improved Ackley,35-.348 Improved Ackley so it was OK to neck up or down.
2muchgun
New member
Catshooter--What Roper states was my original thoughts also. However, I do not have any of Ackleys books.
I realize there is no "real" 22-6mmAI. I also realize that Niedner invented the 25-06, I believe in the 1920's. It would seem hard to believe that it and a couple others were never improved by Ackley. But again, I don't have any proof to go on......
I realize there is no "real" 22-6mmAI. I also realize that Niedner invented the 25-06, I believe in the 1920's. It would seem hard to believe that it and a couple others were never improved by Ackley. But again, I don't have any proof to go on......
There's a handfull of guys that shoot informal 1000 yard benchrest in my area using this cartridge. They all shoot the 1-8" barrels.
Typically they shoot 80 Sierra Matchkings. The clubs small group record is held by Frank, he shot a 4-3/16", 5 shot group if I remember right.
I have also seen some bullets disinegrate in mid-air. The shooter borescoped his barrel, and said it was looking like a dry lake bed. I don't know the barrel-throat life is but it can't be too great, so that's why I went with the 6BR IMP. By the time I use up one barrel, they will have used up $1500 worth of barrels /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif but its all fun.
Typically they shoot 80 Sierra Matchkings. The clubs small group record is held by Frank, he shot a 4-3/16", 5 shot group if I remember right.
I have also seen some bullets disinegrate in mid-air. The shooter borescoped his barrel, and said it was looking like a dry lake bed. I don't know the barrel-throat life is but it can't be too great, so that's why I went with the 6BR IMP. By the time I use up one barrel, they will have used up $1500 worth of barrels /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif but its all fun.