22 nosler question

I've had to file enough off I can't get the primer seated below case head. Mine will be for hunting too but will always have a the small Caldwell brass catcher on the side wether I'm shooting praire dogs calling coyotes or night calling ceder tree hills for cats

That's just the way I want to do it like I said to each there own

I started this post to try and find a way to fix the head swipe issue and this to me looks like the best way to be able to shoot this barrel the way I want too until it's done then I will go with something different the main reason I went with this 22 nosler was I only have a 22 caliber can at the moment and I wanted to get the most out of a ar-15 as I could in a 22 cal round
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223What do you guys feel the real down fall of the swipe is? I have shot some 7 or 8 times and still going. Does the swipe cause a problem in the shell holder? Knocking the swipe off can't be anymore involved than sizing and triming Hagar brass. I bought my 22 Nosler brass for half the price of the Hagar. People said they were afraid 22 Nosler would eventually be hard to find, and then they set up for Hagar which is already hard to find. Just curious what you guys are trying to gain.

Every one is trying to be nice about this. I'll just come out and say it. 22 Nosler brass is junk!!!!! It's to soft, and the rebated rim makes it even worse. The smaller surface area of the .373 base magnifies the problem even further. There are only a few remedies to fix swiped brass. One is to use a Wilson shell holder and trimmer,putting the case holder on the trimmer backwards and turning the base flat. This will work for a few loadings, until you have cut enough material from the back of the case to weaken it, at which time the rim will fail.

Your also not doing your barrel any justice shooting brass with swipes on it. We all know you need to size your brass enough to get it to chamber in an AR. Usually setting the shoulder back somewhere around .005 If your brass has a .003 extrusion from being swiped 2 things can and will happen. When you size it, the case head will become cocked to one side. You basically have created a wedge from the swipe from the shot before. The same wedge will also cause the loaded round to not be concentric with the bore when chambered. It will tilt the loaded round to some degree causing the bullet to engage the rifling with out being in line with the bore. This will be very slight but it's still there. To look at it another way imagine how well your barrel would shoot without these problems. A

It's never been a question of accuracy. There are lots of barrels out there that shoot little tiny groups. The speeds aren't there, at least the advertised speeds from Nosler. If you load to get the top end performance you get swipes. The only way to eliminate the swipes is to down load. At that point you may as well shoot a top end 223 load.

The other option is to make brass from the Hagar case. The brass is a little harder and has a full size, .422 head on it. This spreads the pressure over a larger surface. It will also have a bit more capacity over the Nosler. The 22 Nosler used up a lot of available case to get the rebated rim. The case head has to be thicker to make room for the extractor to clear the case body as the case tips to the side during ejection. The Hager as well as the 6.8 does not have this problem so the case head can be made in a normal fashion.
 
Exactly

It's not something I'm happy about but I should of researched it more before I made an impulse buy. I probably would of went with a 22x6.8. I don't like haveing to resize brass for a factory loaded chamber but if it fixes my issue and I can push on this round and get its potential I will be happy in the end
 
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Im not knocking anyones idea here. As a matter of fact I went as far as putting 100 Hagar cases in my cart at Graff's. Then I thought why would I change something that has been 100% reliable and rediculously accurate pushing a 55 bt 3490 fps. I have nearly 600 rounds of brass which probably 400 of are new. I would be curious to know what speeds you guys get with Hagar.
 
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It sounds like you've had better luck than me varminter with your rifle maybe the case head swipes are worse in some than others I'm sure.
I will post up speeds when I get everything put together and loaded I'm really courious to get a Hagar case sized and test capacity compared to a 22 nosler case for someone who really doesn't save brass this thing would be fine I'm sure the factory ammo chrono great for me too
 
To remove the swipes I very crudely run them across the lettering forged into the side of the handle of the big adjustable wrench I use on my die jam nut. It just breaks the whole swipe off rather than filing it away. Crude but it works and I never had to get out of my chair to reach the wrench
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If your happy with the swipe issue than keep on doing what your doing it sounds like it works for you I definitely understand being happy with 3490 out of an ar platform
 
I think the swipping is eventually going to cause bolt failure . Hagar brass is harder bigger head diameter and it has a small flash hole like the grendel check out your primer pin size you might want to modify it to fit !! This helps with pressure .all the palma brass is small primer small flash hole dia.and they load them hot.cant do iy with big primmer big flash hole brass.i chamfer my flash holes .cleans them up of burrs and it guides the primer pin into the small hole.
 
Wouldn't harder brass translate into more force and stress on the bolt and wouldn't a bigger case induce more force against the bolt due to a given psi against a bigger surface area equaling more thrust? Wouldn't soft brass also expand tighter against the chamber wall to keep it tight in the chamber under pressure?
 
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head swipes aren't good and if there's a way to load without any head swipes then that is obviousley better. There's no way it's good for your extractor or ejector to be pearsing into your brass. With Hagar brass you will have same thrust coming back on a bigger area to distribute the thrust. plus will be able to get away from the junky nosler brass.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223Wouldn't harder brass translate into more force and stress on the bolt and wouldn't a bigger case induce more force against the bolt due to a given psi against a bigger surface area equaling more thrust? Wouldn't soft brass also expand tighter against the chamber wall to keep it tight in the chamber under pressure?

The trust is the PSI/square inch of case head. It doesn't matter how hard or soft the brass is. The case expansion grabbing the walls won't make an appreciable difference unless you are oiling them up and no grab happens.

The bigger head decreases the thrust at a given point. Think of of a penny with 20 pounds setting on it and a quarter with twenty pounds on it. Which one at any given point will have more psi exerted on it? The penny will be much higher than the quarter. Same force distributed over a large area

Greg
 
Originally Posted By: GLShooterOriginally Posted By: varminter .223Wouldn't harder brass translate into more force and stress on the bolt and wouldn't a bigger case induce more force against the bolt due to a given psi against a bigger surface area equaling more thrust? Wouldn't soft brass also expand tighter against the chamber wall to keep it tight in the chamber under pressure?

The trust is the PSI/square inch of case head. It doesn't matter how hard or soft the brass is. The case expansion grabbing the walls won't make an appreciable difference unless you are oiling them up and no grab happens.

The bigger head decreases the thrust at a given point. Think of of a penny with 20 pounds setting on it and a quarter with twenty pounds on it. Which one at any given point will have more psi exerted on it? The penny will be much higher than the quarter. Same force distributed over a large area

Greg
My thought was based on the smaller case head lowering the the square inches in the pounds per square in equation thus lowering the pounds against the bolt face. Like having the same psi in a smaller diameter hydraulic cylinder.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223Originally Posted By: GLShooterOriginally Posted By: varminter .223Wouldn't harder brass translate into more force and stress on the bolt and wouldn't a bigger case induce more force against the bolt due to a given psi against a bigger surface area equaling more thrust? Wouldn't soft brass also expand tighter against the chamber wall to keep it tight in the chamber under pressure?

The trust is the PSI/square inch of case head. It doesn't matter how hard or soft the brass is. The case expansion grabbing the walls won't make an appreciable difference unless you are oiling them up and no grab happens.

The bigger head decreases the thrust at a given point. Think of of a penny with 20 pounds setting on it and a quarter with twenty pounds on it. Which one at any given point will have more psi exerted on it? The penny will be much higher than the quarter. Same force distributed over a large area

Greg
My thought was based on the smaller case head lowering the the square inches in the pounds per square in equation thus lowering the pounds against the bolt face. Like having the same psi in a smaller diameter hydraulic cylinder.

Good theory but it doesn't work on this one. This is why they keep the 458 SOCOM so low in pressure. The huge 308 head busts bolts of 223 nominal size when pushed. It's pretty maxed out as it sets. When submitted to SAMMI it failed because the 30% proof load broke the bolts. It will probably never be approved because of that. I got that straight from the guy that submitted it.

It's just the perfect storm. Soft brass, high bolt thrust and a rifle that opens up quickly. As I've opined the 55,000 psi MAX wasn't just chosen willy nilly. The case told them.

Greg
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223So all we need is harder brass????

Yeah that would help but as it is the 6.8/30 Remington/HAGAR are pretty much limited to 57,000 or so before the brass starts swiping etc.unless the timing is done carefully. We can squeeze s bit more but with the CURRENTLY available brass you start loosing primer pockets in them. One and done is no bueno and I've been there for that costly endeavor. Unfortunately I believe that rebated rim is always going to be a factor.

Greg
 
Ive not seen any loose primer pockets to speak of in my 22 nosler brass but the once fired federal 6.8 stuff from cavity back had 8 or 9 out of about 60 loose after my first firing in my 6.5x6.8 with 30 grains of 8208 and a 90 tnt. I backed it down to 29.7 now as 30 had some ejector marks becoming evident.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223Ive not seen any loose primer pockets to speak of in my 22 nosler brass but the once fired federal 6.8 stuff from cavity back had 8 or 9 out of about 60 loose after my first firing in my 6.5x6.8 with 30 grains of 8208.

If you pump it up you'll see them. The FC is pretty soft. I don't go crazy with it but as I bought a large quantity of once fired a couple years ago cheap I'm not too worried. I also got quite a bit of the old SSA that lasts forever. If I find some more I'll buy it as it is great for longevity.

Greg
 
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