22. yellow jackets
- Thread starter catdaddy
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GC
Well-known member
Yes it would be stupid if you have any choice at all regarding the firearms available to you to hunt with.
If given no other choice I would not choose either of your picks. Both are too fragile to acheive the amount of penetration you need except at very close ranges and avoiding all bones, shoulder, upper leg, ect. They are also not stoutly enough constructed for me to feel confident on penetrating the skull, instead of them coming apart upon skullbone and hard angles. If forced to use the Long Rifle I would choose a more strongly constructed high velocity (not hyper) bullet such as the Eley hollowpoint, Winchester Power Point, or CCI Small Game Bullet.
All things considered it is a bad idea. BTW, I have killed coyotes outright with a .22LR with very carefully placed head shots. And, I've watched coyotes run away when lung shot with the .22LR. Some I eventually found, some I didn't. Did I mention it was generally a bad idea? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
If given no other choice I would not choose either of your picks. Both are too fragile to acheive the amount of penetration you need except at very close ranges and avoiding all bones, shoulder, upper leg, ect. They are also not stoutly enough constructed for me to feel confident on penetrating the skull, instead of them coming apart upon skullbone and hard angles. If forced to use the Long Rifle I would choose a more strongly constructed high velocity (not hyper) bullet such as the Eley hollowpoint, Winchester Power Point, or CCI Small Game Bullet.
All things considered it is a bad idea. BTW, I have killed coyotes outright with a .22LR with very carefully placed head shots. And, I've watched coyotes run away when lung shot with the .22LR. Some I eventually found, some I didn't. Did I mention it was generally a bad idea? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
PlainsRedneckOK
New member
If it were me I'd use the stingers. I wouldn't hesitate at a head/neck shot out to 50 or even 60 yards. Maybe a chest shot if it were inside 40. I am going to warn you, though, that you're going to get some conflicting input most likely. Good luck.
GC
Well-known member
Fox are much smaller and less hardy than coyotes. Under 50 yards give or take a few, and, with very good shot placement always, it is do-able. Remember that furbearers have soft feet and don't cut the ground with hooves like a deer does. Tracking in much of the common ground clutter like grass, leaves, ect. is nigh on impossible. Also, furbearers have... uh well... fur. That is thick hair, and, sometimes longish hair that soaks up blood leaving little sign on the ground. And lastly, the little rimfire isn't going to punch much of a hole in the entrance, or, cause a exit wound to leak blood on the off side. There won't be a lot of sign to help you locate the critter after it runs out of sight. And run out of sight they will, unless you brain shoot them or break the spine. There just isn't enough energy to anchor larger animals down like a centerfire cartridge can. So, the odds are stacked against you when hunting with a Long Rifle on bigger critters.
Now, the .22 Magnum has just enough more "pop" to make it a considerably better cartridge for predator hunting. With good shot placement (notice how that keeps coming up?) the rimfire "magnum" can be effective even on coyotes to 80+ yards.
Are ya stuck with only a .22LR, is that it?
Now, the .22 Magnum has just enough more "pop" to make it a considerably better cartridge for predator hunting. With good shot placement (notice how that keeps coming up?) the rimfire "magnum" can be effective even on coyotes to 80+ yards.
Are ya stuck with only a .22LR, is that it?
CAT DADDY COLD
New member
22LR is perfect to shoot coyotes, coons, and cats that are in caught in leghold traps...Kelly
Check the archives. There is a big thread on it a few months ago. Last time I got roasted for saying that yes, a .22 LR will marginally work on coyotes but from my experience in using it years ago and observing others who used it, I would not shoot coyotes with it if I could possibly use something bigger. I'd strongly recommend something bigger, and I gave some anecdotes that confirmed the reasons others have mentioned already.
Touchy subject and if I got blasted for saying that, imagine the attack anyone would get if he actually favored using a .22 on coyotes. Most folks are probably tiptoeing away from this topic so the archives are a good bet. Flame suit on.
Touchy subject and if I got blasted for saying that, imagine the attack anyone would get if he actually favored using a .22 on coyotes. Most folks are probably tiptoeing away from this topic so the archives are a good bet. Flame suit on.
remington870
New member
Surely you must have a shotgun or a deer rifle to use and either one of them would be a better choice.
Christopher
New member
22lr's are great for targets and squirrels but they don't have the real thump for consistant quick kills on larger animals. Even groundhogs are a bit tough for the 22 lr to stop unless brained or spined. They will die but usually in their hole. I know because I've shot many of them in days past with the 22lr and if the chest was pounded once they usually got back up and ran off unless a second round was put in the vitals pretty quick.
Put it this way: 22lr with 40 grain lead bullet @1250 fps. OK, then my 50 caliber Muzzleloader with 355 grain soft lead bullet at 1280 fps leveled at groundhogs from 5 yards to 50 yards = groundhogs with 1/2 inch holes in their boiler rooms running or crawling into thier dens to die! Blood all over, too. I'm not kidding. Only one was ever recovered because of a neck shot broke the spine. This example was given because slow bullets, even big slow bullets just don't have the shock value to stun the animal into instant submission like, as GC said above, the centerfires do. I agree, a 22 magnum is as minimum as I would go.
Put it this way: 22lr with 40 grain lead bullet @1250 fps. OK, then my 50 caliber Muzzleloader with 355 grain soft lead bullet at 1280 fps leveled at groundhogs from 5 yards to 50 yards = groundhogs with 1/2 inch holes in their boiler rooms running or crawling into thier dens to die! Blood all over, too. I'm not kidding. Only one was ever recovered because of a neck shot broke the spine. This example was given because slow bullets, even big slow bullets just don't have the shock value to stun the animal into instant submission like, as GC said above, the centerfires do. I agree, a 22 magnum is as minimum as I would go.
canislatrans54
New member
catdaddy: While the .06 will definitely not be a "fur-friendly" bullet, it will be a much better choice than the .22, if you're actually interested in dead coyotes/'cats.
canislatrans54
New member
Quote:
If it were me I'd use the stingers. I wouldn't hesitate at a head/neck shot out to 50 or even 60 yards. Maybe a chest shot if it were inside 40. I am going to warn you, though, that you're going to get some conflicting input most likely. Good luck.
For years, I have read about people taking "neck" shots at deer & coyotes.
I've always wondered why anyone would purposely do this? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Unless you get lucky & hit an artery, there's nothing "vital" in a neck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I'm not trying to cause trouble, just trying to understand the thinking.
If it were me I'd use the stingers. I wouldn't hesitate at a head/neck shot out to 50 or even 60 yards. Maybe a chest shot if it were inside 40. I am going to warn you, though, that you're going to get some conflicting input most likely. Good luck.
For years, I have read about people taking "neck" shots at deer & coyotes.
I've always wondered why anyone would purposely do this? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Unless you get lucky & hit an artery, there's nothing "vital" in a neck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I'm not trying to cause trouble, just trying to understand the thinking.
Quote:
yeah, i have a 22. and a 30-06, i doubt thered be much yote left if i took it with my deer rifle
Use your 06. No question. I shot a lot of coyotes for fur using my 06. Just pick a good bullet. The bullet is the most crucial factor in fur damage anyway, far more than rifle caliber (though if the velocity is super high, it is hard not to damage fur with any bullet). With the 06 you will hit plenty hard and can shoot coyotes effectively six times as far.
Some of the heavier 30-06 bullets will punch through with a small exit hole better than the light jacketed ones in 150 grain or less. I shot most with 165 grain bullets. My son put a nice tidy hole through a cougar broadside with a 180 grain Remington Corlokt in 30-06, not a quantum amount larger than coyote for body size at that point.
I have had good luck on fur in my .243 recently with 95 grain Nosler Partitions, and I imagine that a 165 Partition in 06 would always punch on through and not tear up the pelt too bad unless you were inside of 50 yards and hit bone. Stay away from major bone with the more powerful calibers if you want to sell the hide. I'm assuming full metal jacket bullets are illegal to use for hunting. They whistle through coyotes with too little damage anyway, upping the odds of some running off where you can't find them. Voice of experience.
If you don't hand load, try for the more strongly constructed factory bullets, like Partitions, Speer Grand Slam, Corelokt. Barnes TSX should be good for coyotes out of an 06. If fur doesn't matter, load up some 125 or 130 grain frangible 30-06 rounds for high speed, flat shooting, big holes in coyote size critters.
yeah, i have a 22. and a 30-06, i doubt thered be much yote left if i took it with my deer rifle
Use your 06. No question. I shot a lot of coyotes for fur using my 06. Just pick a good bullet. The bullet is the most crucial factor in fur damage anyway, far more than rifle caliber (though if the velocity is super high, it is hard not to damage fur with any bullet). With the 06 you will hit plenty hard and can shoot coyotes effectively six times as far.
Some of the heavier 30-06 bullets will punch through with a small exit hole better than the light jacketed ones in 150 grain or less. I shot most with 165 grain bullets. My son put a nice tidy hole through a cougar broadside with a 180 grain Remington Corlokt in 30-06, not a quantum amount larger than coyote for body size at that point.
I have had good luck on fur in my .243 recently with 95 grain Nosler Partitions, and I imagine that a 165 Partition in 06 would always punch on through and not tear up the pelt too bad unless you were inside of 50 yards and hit bone. Stay away from major bone with the more powerful calibers if you want to sell the hide. I'm assuming full metal jacket bullets are illegal to use for hunting. They whistle through coyotes with too little damage anyway, upping the odds of some running off where you can't find them. Voice of experience.
If you don't hand load, try for the more strongly constructed factory bullets, like Partitions, Speer Grand Slam, Corelokt. Barnes TSX should be good for coyotes out of an 06. If fur doesn't matter, load up some 125 or 130 grain frangible 30-06 rounds for high speed, flat shooting, big holes in coyote size critters.
Lonnie
New member
If it were me I'd use the stingers. I wouldn't hesitate at a head/neck shot out to 50 or even 60 yards. Maybe a chest shot if it were inside 40. I am going to warn you, though, that you're going to get some conflicting input most likely. Good luck.
Isn't the spine in the neck? Any shot near it will disable a critter.
GC
Well-known member
Quote:
For years, I have read about people taking "neck" shots at deer & coyotes.
I've always wondered why anyone would purposely do this?
Unless you get lucky & hit an artery, there's nothing "vital" in a neck.
I'm not trying to cause trouble, just trying to understand the thinking.
The spine runs through all critters necks and is the target one should be shooting for. Spines are not always in the center of the neck, and, knowing exactly where that little cord of bone lay inside the mass of neck muscle and hair is critical to making a sure kill. In addition you must have enough bullet to penetrate the neck muscle and then smash the spine breaking it. .22LR's aren't the best choice for this sort of shooting on anything much bigger than a groundhog, especially at longish ranges. Just not enough "pop" to penetrate and snap that spinal column. It generally takes very good knowledge of the animals anatomy and steady shooting for neck shooting. The real danger there is shooting too low and cutting the throat inside the neck. This can cause starvation, infection, and a long, slow, lingering death for the animal. Shots that miss the neck will often stun the animal knocking it down immediately because the bullet hits the nerves that lay close to the skin surface and around the spine. The shock jerks the ground out from under the animal. However, unless you are able to get in a killing shot quickly, the striken animal will bounce up and be gone in a heartbeat. Neck shooting any game is tricky business...
By all means use your deer rifle. Think about how much better a shot you will be when deer hunting with all the practice you'll get predator hunting with it.
For years, I have read about people taking "neck" shots at deer & coyotes.
I've always wondered why anyone would purposely do this?
Unless you get lucky & hit an artery, there's nothing "vital" in a neck.
I'm not trying to cause trouble, just trying to understand the thinking.
The spine runs through all critters necks and is the target one should be shooting for. Spines are not always in the center of the neck, and, knowing exactly where that little cord of bone lay inside the mass of neck muscle and hair is critical to making a sure kill. In addition you must have enough bullet to penetrate the neck muscle and then smash the spine breaking it. .22LR's aren't the best choice for this sort of shooting on anything much bigger than a groundhog, especially at longish ranges. Just not enough "pop" to penetrate and snap that spinal column. It generally takes very good knowledge of the animals anatomy and steady shooting for neck shooting. The real danger there is shooting too low and cutting the throat inside the neck. This can cause starvation, infection, and a long, slow, lingering death for the animal. Shots that miss the neck will often stun the animal knocking it down immediately because the bullet hits the nerves that lay close to the skin surface and around the spine. The shock jerks the ground out from under the animal. However, unless you are able to get in a killing shot quickly, the striken animal will bounce up and be gone in a heartbeat. Neck shooting any game is tricky business...
By all means use your deer rifle. Think about how much better a shot you will be when deer hunting with all the practice you'll get predator hunting with it.
I recently shot a feral tomcat that was causing problems on the homestead with the new Hyper Vel 22LR raptor load from CCI. Failed to penetrate the skull at 35yds. Had to run him down and pump 2 in the chest to finish it. Use the '06 with slower fmj or psp and you shouldn't tear up the fur too bad.
Christopher
New member
Catdaddy,
I would like to suggest flat nosed cast lead bullets for your 30/06 for what you want to do. Little 112 grain soup cans traveling 2000fps is a pretty effective round out to 150 yards. Great practice round, too. Won't find them in the stores but get to know some reloaders and I expect you can put something together that will please you very much. Castboolits.gunloads.com is a good source for this.
Christopher
I would like to suggest flat nosed cast lead bullets for your 30/06 for what you want to do. Little 112 grain soup cans traveling 2000fps is a pretty effective round out to 150 yards. Great practice round, too. Won't find them in the stores but get to know some reloaders and I expect you can put something together that will please you very much. Castboolits.gunloads.com is a good source for this.
Christopher
redeyeddawg
New member
Quote:
what about fox
The 22lr is too light for fox IMO. I've shot reds in both the chest area and head with several different loads at close range with most being run offs. Now the .22 mag is a dandy fox round out to about 100 yards. Have you considered a 12 ga. shotgun Catdaddy?
what about fox
The 22lr is too light for fox IMO. I've shot reds in both the chest area and head with several different loads at close range with most being run offs. Now the .22 mag is a dandy fox round out to about 100 yards. Have you considered a 12 ga. shotgun Catdaddy?