.223 40 grain bullets. Good for Coyotes?

Back to sleddog's original question, I've come to the conclusion that there probably isn't a cut and dry answer. Some guys swear by the lil Rem 17 center fire one day and cuss it the next. Same with the 223,22-250,'06 or 338 mag. You just can't always have the perfect performace out of any of em. My best advice is to get proficient with whatever you decide to use and hope for the best. L.T.
 
One member thought the Noslers may be less explosive than the Vmax and Blitzkings. Anyone else heard this? I was hoping to use one load all the time, 'cause that would make things real simple.
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sleddogg,
I would agree with this comment. In my experience the V-max bullet seems to be more explosive that it's Nosler counterpart.

I agree with dogboy, the Nosler is a more expensive bullet, but it is more consistent in what it will do to animals concerning expansion in my 223 or 250.

I have liked the idea of carrying one type of ammo for all occasions, but as I said above-I'm going to try the 50 grain BT's or the 52 Sierra
in my 223. The 52 bullet is a deadly accurate recipe in one of many loads in my 22-250.

As many have stated, you have to make that shot count. I would consider myself a fair shot with either rifle. It's not uncommon for me to shoot 1000-2000 rounds in the summer in the field, let alone the range. Even on a few well placed shots, some animals don't die right away. I guess I expect that everything I shoot at and hit well should go down like a ton of bricks. Sometimes it just doesn't work that way.

About 13 years ago I shot an Antelope with a 22-250 loaded with a Speer Grand Slam. The antelope reared up on it's hind legs and hit 4th gear in about 4 strides. It went up over the hill with me in very hot pursuit. I found it almost 300 yards away from where I shot it. The shot went straight through the heart, the antelope just didn't know it was dead yet.

My point is this. Sometimes animals don't die right away, even with that perfect shot in the chest. A head or spine shot will do it, and I have taken those before.

When something like the above happens, I might start questioning the load I used to put it down with. If you start having doubts about your loads, you are going to start to develop questions in your head that shouldn't be there when your taking that next shot.

Most people could be content that almost everything dies when they get a decent shot in on their game. But that's just not the way I am. I believe it never hurts to try something that might make me even more successful.

In the end, the guy behind the rifle has to feel totally confident with what he is shooting, no matter how big or small the caliber or bullet is. We make our own choices, and live with the consequences of our decisions. If they are not up to our own personal standards, then we make adjustments. It is up to the individual shooter.

Forgive me for making such a long post. -MP
 
In the end, the guy behind the rifle has to feel totally confident with what he is shooting......
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Hi Mike! Your comment on confidence really helped me put this in perspective. I have carried a .243 since I started Whitetail hunting in 1972 as a young teen in N.Y. and VT. I had to learn to calm down aim low behind the shoulder and squeeze. The .243 rarely knocks them off their hooves, but they are always done within 75 yards.

Now take the .243 with the same 85 grain hand load and use it on Coyotes. It handles any Eastern calling senario with ease! I can't imagine a better round for these large Eastern Coyotes. I've only been Coyote calling for about ten years, but called in and harvested a good amount of dogs in that time frame. I know with anything that resembles a descent shot from the shoulder to the liver the dog just crumbles. I've made some marginal shots that have also knocked them down in a hurry. The down side is since I started saving those nice winter pelts the .243 has its drawbacks. Many big exit holes. Guess its a trade-off.

Without coming right out and saying so, (some did say so!) many PM members seem to think the .223 is a marginal coyote gun. I just purchased one to try to save the pelts from so much carnage, but not at the price of wounding coyotes my .243 wound have knocked right down.

My confidence is already high with the .243. I think I'll use the .223 Remington for practice and hunt with .243 come this fall.

This has been a long post but thanks for everyones input, and honesty, as it has helped me out alot!
 
sleddogg,
I never said that a 223 was marginal for coyotes. It will put them down for sure. I was just talking about the bullet. I hope I didn't confuse you there....

I have seen the size of the last dog you shot though. It looked more like a wolf! A 243 is a great caliber for dogs too. Use what you think your most comforable with.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif -Mike
 
Excellent point Mike on the spine and head shot. I don't take those shots, but they usually don't run after that......... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
sleddogg,
Although the .223 is about as light as I would go as far as coyote whackers go, it will do a decent job for you if you use the 55 grain "Gameking" bullets. It matters not whether you choose the hollow point or the spitzer. I think you said you had some Win 748 on hand. 27.5 grains of the 748 would be a good middle ground place to start. 25.5 grains of IMR 4064 behind the 55 grain pill would also be good load as would 26 grains of H335.

Is that 85 grain bullet you are using in your .243 a Sierra "gameking"? If so, then I would personally stick with that gun and load for my coyotes. This is especially true if you have shots much over 100 yards.
 
Rich, your right as usual. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif In my competition days we hated to lose animals, it could mean winning or not even placing. We did not play around with bullets, my hunting partner shot a 243 with 80 gr spitzers and I shot a 22-250 with 55 gr spitzers, Needless to say, we did not lose to many animals and we also won alot of those hunts.
 
Rich, yup those are the Sierra 85 grain HPBT Gamekings. They are outstanding on both whitetails and coyotes. Pelt damage can be ugly sometimes though, but they do not go a step.

Rich I also emailed you with a possible wind wind solution. Thanks, Brian
 
I have used the 40gr vmax and the 40gr noslers in the 223. If you cut the two in half lengthwise you will find that the Nosler BT has a much thicker base than the Vmax, and can therfore "normally" give deeper penetration. The Vmax has what appears to be the same jacket thickness all over. Both killed for me, but there was a bit of dancing around from 0 to 125 yards. In the SW it is not a problem, as the country is fairly open for most of the areas that I call.
Because I hated the dancing around part I went back to my old 22/250AI with the 55gr Vmax and the problem went away.
The twist in the 223 was 1/9" and the 22/250AI is 1/14". Possibly if my 223 was a 1/12" or a 1/14"(as with the .222Rem), the bullet performance would have been a lot less spectacular. I think that twist rates are overlooked when thinking about bullet performance.
Anyway, if you are not saving hides(as I do not) I think a larger bullet weight would be better serving.
As a further comment, I have a 25TCU(25/223AI) that I use some of the time. I use the 75gr Hornady HP. Velocity is only 2980fps. With the added bullet weight coyotes do not move out of their tracks. But I digress. If I wanted to save the hides I would use the 40grVmax over the 40gr NoslerBT. Less offside damage and the dancing distance does not seem to be different. If you are not interested in the hides, then Mr. Cronk's 257AI would not be overkill. Good Hunting, Scooter
 
I think that we all forget how tuff the coyote is. My buddy shot one with his .30-06 under the deer feeder one year and it ran off. I looked around and found it hiding and it ran again with no chest and a leg barely hanging on. We finished the coyote off with a shot to the head. Again that was one tuff Coyote!
 
If you are not interested in the hides, then Mr. Cronk's 257AI would not be overkill. Good Hunting, Scooter.

Guy's, When using 90 or 100 grain bullets that were designed for deer sized game, I usually get holes about size of fifty cent piece upon exit. Fur buyer don't even blink about that much damage. Now if I hit heavy bone on grazing type hit, then I end up with big exit holes like you see in that coyote hip on my website. If you continue using 40 to 50 grain "varmint" type bullets on coyotes you are gonna have some big holes appear on ENTRY side, and coyote may run a very long ways before he dies. Use them little explosive bullets if you want, just don't forget what Rich Cronk said. LOL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Scooter,
No hard feelings on my end. I tried the 85 grain Nosler ballistic tip loaded to around 3500 FPS one year down in texas. This was shot out of my whippity barreled .25-06. What I got was football sized exit holes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Another time up in north central nebraska, I shot a broadside coyote though the ribs with a little 70 grainer out of my .243. Result was about same as I had got with the 85 grainer out of the .25-06--Football sized exit. I am now a strong believer in using bullets with fairly heavy jacket when shooting coyotes. Oh yes, back when I was still whacking them with a mini-14 I blasted one in the shoulder with one of them there 52 grain blitz bullets. Range was maybe 50 yards. ENTRY wound was maybe eight inches in diameter but not very deep.
 
Anyone else have a tested and proven coyote taker in .223? Love to hear your favorite combo and sucess with it. I am an avid handloader, and don't mind trying something new. Just to refresh our memories my shots will be under 125 yards, but the coyotes can be large.....
 
Hey Sleddog, I dont claim to be the almighty when it comes to killing coyotes but I have killed a bunch and I have an opinion. I use a 22-250 Remington mod 700 sporter weight rifle. I also use a 25-06 in a Sendero. One load I have used is a 40grn VMAX bullet with 35.5 grains of IMR 3031 in my 22-250. I have chronographed this load at 3970fps. All the coyotes I hit with this combination either died right now or, fell over squirmed around a bit on the ground and then died. I like using the 40 grain bullets on coyotes. I have never been under the impression that it is hard to put down a coyote. I have killed some that I bet would have weighed 40 or 45 pounds.The bottom line is hit them where it counts. The 40 grain bullets have worked fine for me in my 22-250.
 
Ronald,
I believe that it was a 60 grain spizter from Nosler. I remember picking them up, thinking they would do the trick for me on antelope even though they weren't chronographing a great speed for me. I also know that I still have a box of partitions from way back when that is still in my reloading room. It possibly could have been a solid base spitzer.

Now that I think about it, I believe it was a spitzer because I think that Nolser put some type of "N" or something so you could identify the bullet as yours if you needed to.

Just ran down in my reloading room. It was a speer Gram Slam that I shot at that antelope! GS are the initials....

Sorry for the mixup! But I knew it was a premium bullet that I used. I have always been partial to John Noslers bullets and was shooting BT's before anyone knew anything about them.

My friends used to make fun of me because my bullets had all these green, yellow, purple, orange and blue tips- 308, 277, 244, 224, and 257. At least thats the way I remember them....

I also got the chance to be one of the first ones to shoot the "X " bullet in the 90 grain 244 configuration before anyone knew about them too. I was at a gun show here in Salt Lake when one of the Barnes and I struck up a conversation about thier bullet performance. He told me to come by his office, about 15 miles from where I lived where he gave me a box to try. Those first ones out did not expand very much to begin with, but they are a lot better now.

Sorry to get off the topic, I'm starting to date myself here.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif -MP
 
By the way, if we are talking 250's here-try 40 grains of 4895 behind the bullet. It will put down any dog with a decent shot for sure.

It is a dandy, but tends to make big holes sometimes.... -MP
 
Mike, maybe I should trade up to the 250. More power than the .223 Remington, less than the .243. That 55 grain Sierra Gameking loaded to around 3500 fps sounds like a nice medium between the two.
 
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