223 for deer hunting
- Thread starter preachim
- Start date
caninethumper
New member
Thanks josh, another question-Will a 22-250 do fine for mountain lion. And will a heart shot do.
grinr
New member
223 IS NOT A DEER RIFLE!PERIOD!Where the hell are the moderators on this one!Sure it will kill them with a well placed shot.I know a guy who killed a moose with 2 shots behind the ear with a .22LR but I sure as hell wouldn't go moose huntin' with a 22.Around these here parts 22 centerfires have a reputation as "poachin' guns" due to the fact that they are the largest caliber we can use during closed big game season.Alot of guys here carry them after using their 1 deer tag to try to get 1 for the wife or one of the other guys in camp etc.I'm sure they have accounted for plenty of deer here in the woods of New Brunswick which are as big as any deer any where but I would also bet that most were taken illegally.Whitetails are in my opinion are a magnificent animal and deserve to be hunted with sufficient firepower to get the job done,even on marginal shots.I'm guessing that the same people who would disrespect deer by hunting them with 22s are the same people who would take bad angle,running shots etc.I can't believe this thread has gone on for this long.Don't be comin' round here with yer 22s huntin' deer cuz there illegal for big game as well they otta be.Our deer herd is in enuf trouble without goin' round feedin'22 gutshot trophy bucks to the goddam coyotes!There are no stupid questions ,just stupid answers.
I don't regard being a little bit off with a head shot "no big deal".
grinr, there's a vast difference in Canadian deer and small southern deer. Hunt where the typical doe weighs 80 to 100 pounds, live weight, and a 200 lb buck is extreemly rare. It changes requirements.
I've never used a .22 on deer and am NOT big on the notion, but the fact remains that they are legal for use in many states, people do use them and with great success.
As I've not used them personally, I can't advise on shot placement. Certainly, a well placed head shot will work great. Ditto a neck shot. But if either are off by much you have a problem.
Shoulders are out of the question. Classic broadside through the lungs with the impact on the ribs seems that it should be effective, but I don't expect an exit which means little to no blood trail if they run.
All reasons why I prefer to use a better tool, IMHO, for the job.
As to mountain lion, people kill them with 22 magnums, though I think that a bit light. They're thin skinned, lightly boned animals. Probably work on them fairly well, but you would be best served to talk to people with a LOT of lion experience before deciding what your comfort level is.
grinr, there's a vast difference in Canadian deer and small southern deer. Hunt where the typical doe weighs 80 to 100 pounds, live weight, and a 200 lb buck is extreemly rare. It changes requirements.
I've never used a .22 on deer and am NOT big on the notion, but the fact remains that they are legal for use in many states, people do use them and with great success.
As I've not used them personally, I can't advise on shot placement. Certainly, a well placed head shot will work great. Ditto a neck shot. But if either are off by much you have a problem.
Shoulders are out of the question. Classic broadside through the lungs with the impact on the ribs seems that it should be effective, but I don't expect an exit which means little to no blood trail if they run.
All reasons why I prefer to use a better tool, IMHO, for the job.
As to mountain lion, people kill them with 22 magnums, though I think that a bit light. They're thin skinned, lightly boned animals. Probably work on them fairly well, but you would be best served to talk to people with a LOT of lion experience before deciding what your comfort level is.
grinr
New member
Stu,
Guess I was a little fired up after reading this thread.I thought the purpose of these forums was to help each other out.The very nature of Preachim's question shouted "NOVICE LOOKING FOR GOOD ADVICE" to me.Although most members did give good advice(a few fencesitters)I felt that maybe a respected Moderator should have taken a firm stand on the topic.Comments like"IF your a good shot go ahead and use it" just say irresponsible to me.How good a shot do you suppose a novice is?How many deer do you think he's shot?Probly none.Throw in a good dose of Buck Fever and a marginal at best caliber....see wut I mean?I have no doubt that a 223 will kill deer in capable hands,I just think we owe it to the sport and the deer to get newcomers started off on the right foot.I realise that southern deer are alot smaller than what I'm used to,and I know Inuit hunt polar bears with 223s.But those guys are born with a rifle in one hand and a harpoon in the other.EXPERIENCE.Glad to see Jonathan in Ont. limits his shots to 1/4mile!Gimme a f#*#'n break!!Jonathan,if you'd ever seen a moose take 2 good chest hits from a 30-06 and still run 500yds. into the nastiest alder swale around before fallin' you mite want to reconsider your choice of weapons.
Guess I was a little fired up after reading this thread.I thought the purpose of these forums was to help each other out.The very nature of Preachim's question shouted "NOVICE LOOKING FOR GOOD ADVICE" to me.Although most members did give good advice(a few fencesitters)I felt that maybe a respected Moderator should have taken a firm stand on the topic.Comments like"IF your a good shot go ahead and use it" just say irresponsible to me.How good a shot do you suppose a novice is?How many deer do you think he's shot?Probly none.Throw in a good dose of Buck Fever and a marginal at best caliber....see wut I mean?I have no doubt that a 223 will kill deer in capable hands,I just think we owe it to the sport and the deer to get newcomers started off on the right foot.I realise that southern deer are alot smaller than what I'm used to,and I know Inuit hunt polar bears with 223s.But those guys are born with a rifle in one hand and a harpoon in the other.EXPERIENCE.Glad to see Jonathan in Ont. limits his shots to 1/4mile!Gimme a f#*#'n break!!Jonathan,if you'd ever seen a moose take 2 good chest hits from a 30-06 and still run 500yds. into the nastiest alder swale around before fallin' you mite want to reconsider your choice of weapons.
caninethumper
New member
I didn't mean to afend you but the question had already been raised so I had to ask. I was just wondering If it work around my part of the woods, where shots are 10-30yds at most. What I forgot to mention is that I am an ethical hunter and I always use good judgement before I take a shot. I am not the kind of person to sling bullets at running game. It is legal in my state to harvest deer with a 22 rimfire but I would NEVER consider it an option. I'm sorry I asked but thats what an ethical hunter is supposed to do.
grinr, I agree. I see it as more of a specialty tool that a beginners.
Thumper, lots of guys use 222, 223 and 22-250's on deer in the south. Swear they kill like a lightning bolt. I have them, but have never been quite able to talk myself into trying them on deer.
A 22-250 packs a lot of punch for such a light bullet. If I had to use one, I would restrict myself to either the lungs, aiming to impact on the buldge of the ribs where there isn't much between me & the lungs, the spine in the neck, preferably just in front of the shoulders where it moves the least, or possibly the head, but all of these shots only when I could be certain of shot placement.
Thumper, lots of guys use 222, 223 and 22-250's on deer in the south. Swear they kill like a lightning bolt. I have them, but have never been quite able to talk myself into trying them on deer.
A 22-250 packs a lot of punch for such a light bullet. If I had to use one, I would restrict myself to either the lungs, aiming to impact on the buldge of the ribs where there isn't much between me & the lungs, the spine in the neck, preferably just in front of the shoulders where it moves the least, or possibly the head, but all of these shots only when I could be certain of shot placement.
James Lindley
New member
Geeze grinr.. Chill out dude. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif All that is being offered here is opinions. That is all. Each one of us has these opinions about what caliber it will take to do certain jobs. And that is our right as individuals. Ones opinion does not make theem right or wrong.
Now..."I was wondering if the 223 would be ok to use deer hunting. I use 50 grain Winchester ballistic silvertips?". That is the question. In my opinion if you place your shot where it needs to go..Yes it is. I would however reccomned a change in your selection of bullet. The ones that you mention are for predators and designed to break up with less effort and on thinner skinned animals than what you are wanting to use them for. Get a good round that is intended for the prupose.....
Now some may say that I have given bad advice and as a moderator I should not have said what I just said. I will tell them to pick up a copy of a Magazine called Texas Trophy Hunter (or watch the show) and look in the back at the pictures that are sent in by members. When looking at the pictures you will see proof positive that it is very possible to use a .223 for killing a deer. Pictures and facts tell a different story than what we would like to believe.
You will find quite a few deer taken with 22-250s also. You will find deer killed with just about every caliber out there.. What you will also find is that most of the deer killed with the .223 will be young hunters..
A 223 in the hands of a confident and patient shooter is extremely lethal as any caliber, in any respect out there.
Is it the weapon that a novice (defined as someone that has never shot or hunted) shooter should use.. Probably not. But even a 300 win mag will not make up for poorly placed shots by a novice hunter. Gut shot is gut shot period and that isn't an opinion. It is a fact.
I have seen deer that I have shot with a 300 win mag run over 300 hundred yards before expiring. And yes it was a shot through both lungs and his heart. Same with a deer that I shot with a 7mm rem sendero at less than 15 feet. 120 yards before he ran into a tree and fell over. Results at cleaning were a hole through his heart and one of his lungs. Hole in heart was about the size of the barrel on my sendero (roughly one inch). So larger calibers are not the god send that a lot of shooters like to think they are.
To get a little off the subject but it is still a good relation to calibers.. I used that same Sendero when I started hunting coyotes. I killed a lot and I do mean a lot of them with it. Some at night and some in the day. What I will tell you is this. I had more runners and spinners with that big gun than I ever did with my 22-250, .223, and my .243 put together.
The whole idea of killing an animal is to dump as much energy at impact as possible into that said animal. When you zip a bullet through it(which larger calibers aften do) you lose a lot of effect of the shot and the hit.
Now as for the moderator comment. Please try to understand that it is not our job as moderators to shut down a topic as long as it is progressing fairly orderly and no one is insulting any one else. Or trying to tell them how stupid they are for using the wrong weapon. Harsh language (cussing or profanities) is something that we look for also. It will get the post deleted as well as the poster reprimanded. This of course is completly dependant on the forum moderator. This forum has a danged fine moderator in all the above regards as he doesn't step in very often but you can be assured that he is more than on top of what is going on in his forum. Thanks for understanding where I am coming from. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif ..... James L.
Now..."I was wondering if the 223 would be ok to use deer hunting. I use 50 grain Winchester ballistic silvertips?". That is the question. In my opinion if you place your shot where it needs to go..Yes it is. I would however reccomned a change in your selection of bullet. The ones that you mention are for predators and designed to break up with less effort and on thinner skinned animals than what you are wanting to use them for. Get a good round that is intended for the prupose.....
Now some may say that I have given bad advice and as a moderator I should not have said what I just said. I will tell them to pick up a copy of a Magazine called Texas Trophy Hunter (or watch the show) and look in the back at the pictures that are sent in by members. When looking at the pictures you will see proof positive that it is very possible to use a .223 for killing a deer. Pictures and facts tell a different story than what we would like to believe.
You will find quite a few deer taken with 22-250s also. You will find deer killed with just about every caliber out there.. What you will also find is that most of the deer killed with the .223 will be young hunters..
A 223 in the hands of a confident and patient shooter is extremely lethal as any caliber, in any respect out there.
Is it the weapon that a novice (defined as someone that has never shot or hunted) shooter should use.. Probably not. But even a 300 win mag will not make up for poorly placed shots by a novice hunter. Gut shot is gut shot period and that isn't an opinion. It is a fact.
I have seen deer that I have shot with a 300 win mag run over 300 hundred yards before expiring. And yes it was a shot through both lungs and his heart. Same with a deer that I shot with a 7mm rem sendero at less than 15 feet. 120 yards before he ran into a tree and fell over. Results at cleaning were a hole through his heart and one of his lungs. Hole in heart was about the size of the barrel on my sendero (roughly one inch). So larger calibers are not the god send that a lot of shooters like to think they are.
To get a little off the subject but it is still a good relation to calibers.. I used that same Sendero when I started hunting coyotes. I killed a lot and I do mean a lot of them with it. Some at night and some in the day. What I will tell you is this. I had more runners and spinners with that big gun than I ever did with my 22-250, .223, and my .243 put together.
The whole idea of killing an animal is to dump as much energy at impact as possible into that said animal. When you zip a bullet through it(which larger calibers aften do) you lose a lot of effect of the shot and the hit.
Now as for the moderator comment. Please try to understand that it is not our job as moderators to shut down a topic as long as it is progressing fairly orderly and no one is insulting any one else. Or trying to tell them how stupid they are for using the wrong weapon. Harsh language (cussing or profanities) is something that we look for also. It will get the post deleted as well as the poster reprimanded. This of course is completly dependant on the forum moderator. This forum has a danged fine moderator in all the above regards as he doesn't step in very often but you can be assured that he is more than on top of what is going on in his forum. Thanks for understanding where I am coming from. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif ..... James L.
Jonathan
New member
come on people ......think about what you are saying .
first of all yes he did say he was a novice(hunter) but he did not mention his shooting
skills..he could be a sniper for all we know!
secondly .223enough gun for deer! give your head a shake (do not preach to me about marginal at best bs) many of big armed men that are tuff as nails ,with almost the tenacity of deer have died
due to(one) hit of .22centerfire (5.56) I have
personaly sean what this gun can do on large animals,large like 1100lbs moose and and 400lb black bear and the moose that had one rear leg severed off and was in the middle of a hwy took one round of 55grain hi shock fed. fired from a mini 14 at about 50yrds from a police officer friend of mine ,yes he would have used the slug gun had it been availible but anyways the moose was hit once in bone behind the ear and .....
listen carfuly .....it went right down and did not twitch ....this round penetrated into the brain and jelled(wasted about a foot of meat on the neck)it also sevred the spinel colemndue intirly to shock effect. the bear was not preinjured by the way
just enraged he was put down with one round of same ammo and one more to be shure but as the officer said he did not need it but "I realy do not like bears" so all I can say is stop, think
(before you blast someone) and try to understand there point of view or if in doubt ask for more info or reconing.
sory if I came off a little heavy I just do not like being underminded (put down ) I do how ever
enjoye corectiv critisisem and incouredge people to warn others of danger's ....But please try to do it in a nice way.......Ps the use of .22 centerfires for deer and other big game is totaly legal in my province and for me it (is)
an acceptable practice but .....I would only recemend it to someone that is a very good shooter....and whome also had self control to
wait for ethical clean shots....hope this clears up a little. Jonathan /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
first of all yes he did say he was a novice(hunter) but he did not mention his shooting
skills..he could be a sniper for all we know!
secondly .223enough gun for deer! give your head a shake (do not preach to me about marginal at best bs) many of big armed men that are tuff as nails ,with almost the tenacity of deer have died
due to(one) hit of .22centerfire (5.56) I have
personaly sean what this gun can do on large animals,large like 1100lbs moose and and 400lb black bear and the moose that had one rear leg severed off and was in the middle of a hwy took one round of 55grain hi shock fed. fired from a mini 14 at about 50yrds from a police officer friend of mine ,yes he would have used the slug gun had it been availible but anyways the moose was hit once in bone behind the ear and .....
listen carfuly .....it went right down and did not twitch ....this round penetrated into the brain and jelled(wasted about a foot of meat on the neck)it also sevred the spinel colemndue intirly to shock effect. the bear was not preinjured by the way
just enraged he was put down with one round of same ammo and one more to be shure but as the officer said he did not need it but "I realy do not like bears" so all I can say is stop, think
(before you blast someone) and try to understand there point of view or if in doubt ask for more info or reconing.
sory if I came off a little heavy I just do not like being underminded (put down ) I do how ever
enjoye corectiv critisisem and incouredge people to warn others of danger's ....But please try to do it in a nice way.......Ps the use of .22 centerfires for deer and other big game is totaly legal in my province and for me it (is)
an acceptable practice but .....I would only recemend it to someone that is a very good shooter....and whome also had self control to
wait for ethical clean shots....hope this clears up a little. Jonathan /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Redfrog
Moderator
Jonathan, What weight bullet are you using in your .223 to kill deer at 350yds.? And what is the energy of your bullets at 350 yds.? And lastly, how much energy is required to kill a deer,in a normal hunting situation where the bullet doesn't enter behind the ear? Thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Jonathan
New member
well......puting a bullet in the ear of a Deer
at 350yards is not(normal)my any means and I do not recamend just anyone try to atempt this feat
But if you want a good bullet for 1-200max yrds
and you hve the ability to shoot them that far accuractly then.....the Sierra (sbt) game king's
are real good but ....that is not what I use and I am not going to sing the praises of what i use but I will give you a hint...it is used by many law inforcement agencies and police tac teams across the country ,yours and mine use them and thaey are 55gr with a tiny red Tip /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif most importantly is for be thay work....
ps I have a pic of the damage that the Deer sustained but it has tobe scaned and I think that it might be a littel graphic ...should i post it? or refrain and just say that it is impressive?
Please do not missconstrude what i am saying
as I am not and DID NOT say that .223 was the best gun for deer just that it works....as a matter of fact whenI am in bear country or when
I think that the shots are going to be out there a bit I use a Tika 300.Win mag with 165gr hornady BTSP andhave even more confidence in them ........... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif thay can put Deer down at over 100yrd /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif If you are good enough /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
at 350yards is not(normal)my any means and I do not recamend just anyone try to atempt this feat
But if you want a good bullet for 1-200max yrds
and you hve the ability to shoot them that far accuractly then.....the Sierra (sbt) game king's
are real good but ....that is not what I use and I am not going to sing the praises of what i use but I will give you a hint...it is used by many law inforcement agencies and police tac teams across the country ,yours and mine use them and thaey are 55gr with a tiny red Tip /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif most importantly is for be thay work....
ps I have a pic of the damage that the Deer sustained but it has tobe scaned and I think that it might be a littel graphic ...should i post it? or refrain and just say that it is impressive?
Please do not missconstrude what i am saying
as I am not and DID NOT say that .223 was the best gun for deer just that it works....as a matter of fact whenI am in bear country or when
I think that the shots are going to be out there a bit I use a Tika 300.Win mag with 165gr hornady BTSP andhave even more confidence in them ........... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif thay can put Deer down at over 100yrd /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif If you are good enough /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Redfrog
Moderator
I have only killed 3 deer and 1 B.R boar
with my .223 and I would not feel (underguned)
even for moose. my range max range for clean kills on deer would be 350-375yrds tops but thats
good enough for me .........Jonathan......[/QB][/QUOTE]
I'm not in law enforcement, so could you tell me what exactly these bullets are with the red tip?
Could you also tell me your terminal energy at350-375 yds?
And could you tell me now that I've re read the above post, how much energy it takes to kill a deer or moose?
I'm not trying to be a pain, but it's obvious you know something that I don't and I'm always ready to learn something new. thanks for the help. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif|Re: 223 for deer hunting|Redfrog|Redfrog|Sun Jan 26 17:14:00 2003|161.184.19.249|1|0|0|0
0006000238000032|0006000238000000|6|982|depending on what book you read anwho wrote ityou need aproximately 400-600ft/lb energy at
the given distance of impact.......my load is in
the neighborhood of aprox.1250 at muz and at(300yrd 541) and at (400yrd 391ft/pounds energy)
and for the bullet....well you will probably cringe and say no way in @#$% but I use it and it works honest,it is a 55gr hornady T.A.P urban
Tactical,application, police .......better known
to reloaders as..........(V-Max)..I can hear the laughter from hearbut think about this in devlopment thay wanted to creat a bullet that would be real accurate, achieve good penetration
in flesh and (light armour) ??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif but
being an urban (lots of innocent people around)
bullet it had to deliver all its energy on target with out over penetrating so thats it in a nut shell thats what I use and have confidence in but I agree that it is not for everyone
oh in the above post I did notsay that I would shoot moose at 300++ yards with it but I would shoot them at under 150 yards or less(150 having a ft/lb energy of 840) and of course this would be a head shot only, for me anyways hope this helps clear up a bit ...Jonathan /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif|Re: 223 for deer hunting|Jonathan|Jonathan|Sun Jan 26 19:41:00 2003|207.61.27.149|1|0|0|0
0006000238000033|0006000238000000|6|3430|I don't know about the 55 TAP load but my 10 yr old son took his first buck with my 16 AR using the 60gr TAP load. Buck was about 150-lbs at 75 yards looking straight at him. He gave him one shot to the center chest and put his lights out. Bullet never exited and wore out the lungs. Was really impressed with this bullets performance.
Personally, I don't think the .223 is a good round unless you are at close range,100 and in! The 22-250 or Swift is a different question. Using Trophy-Bond or Barnes X-bullets, they pack a punch with some distance. Deer in the South are lots different than those big boys you guys have. 200-lb Bucks are not very common.
with my .223 and I would not feel (underguned)
even for moose. my range max range for clean kills on deer would be 350-375yrds tops but thats
good enough for me .........Jonathan......[/QB][/QUOTE]
I'm not in law enforcement, so could you tell me what exactly these bullets are with the red tip?
Could you also tell me your terminal energy at350-375 yds?
And could you tell me now that I've re read the above post, how much energy it takes to kill a deer or moose?
I'm not trying to be a pain, but it's obvious you know something that I don't and I'm always ready to learn something new. thanks for the help. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif|Re: 223 for deer hunting|Redfrog|Redfrog|Sun Jan 26 17:14:00 2003|161.184.19.249|1|0|0|0
0006000238000032|0006000238000000|6|982|depending on what book you read anwho wrote ityou need aproximately 400-600ft/lb energy at
the given distance of impact.......my load is in
the neighborhood of aprox.1250 at muz and at(300yrd 541) and at (400yrd 391ft/pounds energy)
and for the bullet....well you will probably cringe and say no way in @#$% but I use it and it works honest,it is a 55gr hornady T.A.P urban
Tactical,application, police .......better known
to reloaders as..........(V-Max)..I can hear the laughter from hearbut think about this in devlopment thay wanted to creat a bullet that would be real accurate, achieve good penetration
in flesh and (light armour) ??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif but
being an urban (lots of innocent people around)
bullet it had to deliver all its energy on target with out over penetrating so thats it in a nut shell thats what I use and have confidence in but I agree that it is not for everyone
oh in the above post I did notsay that I would shoot moose at 300++ yards with it but I would shoot them at under 150 yards or less(150 having a ft/lb energy of 840) and of course this would be a head shot only, for me anyways hope this helps clear up a bit ...Jonathan /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif|Re: 223 for deer hunting|Jonathan|Jonathan|Sun Jan 26 19:41:00 2003|207.61.27.149|1|0|0|0
0006000238000033|0006000238000000|6|3430|I don't know about the 55 TAP load but my 10 yr old son took his first buck with my 16 AR using the 60gr TAP load. Buck was about 150-lbs at 75 yards looking straight at him. He gave him one shot to the center chest and put his lights out. Bullet never exited and wore out the lungs. Was really impressed with this bullets performance.
Personally, I don't think the .223 is a good round unless you are at close range,100 and in! The 22-250 or Swift is a different question. Using Trophy-Bond or Barnes X-bullets, they pack a punch with some distance. Deer in the South are lots different than those big boys you guys have. 200-lb Bucks are not very common.
Jonathan
New member
That is great Steve cyber beers all around lol
they are a great bullet and they work flawlesly
not to go into detail but I would bet my life on it!
most people underestamate the killing power of guns ,.22 rimfire is a cops worst enemy with
the rite rounds they will go straight through a
Level 2 body armour /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
a little off topic but have you used the larger cal.Sierra Match king's ....they are well known
to many a loooooooong range hunter as the best thing going and preform awsome when thay get there .....but some people will tear your head off because thay are (match) Bullets and that Sierra does not recomend the use of match bullets
for hunting......but even there own bullet smith's are using them (so I have been told)
all I know is thay work great and a not all that expensive ,something to think about when you shoot alot to keep good and get better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
......Jonathan.....
they are a great bullet and they work flawlesly
not to go into detail but I would bet my life on it!
most people underestamate the killing power of guns ,.22 rimfire is a cops worst enemy with
the rite rounds they will go straight through a
Level 2 body armour /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
a little off topic but have you used the larger cal.Sierra Match king's ....they are well known
to many a loooooooong range hunter as the best thing going and preform awsome when thay get there .....but some people will tear your head off because thay are (match) Bullets and that Sierra does not recomend the use of match bullets
for hunting......but even there own bullet smith's are using them (so I have been told)
all I know is thay work great and a not all that expensive ,something to think about when you shoot alot to keep good and get better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
......Jonathan.....
Redfrog
Moderator
Hmmmm. I can't seem to find those energy figures Jonathan. All I can come up with is 1200 to 1300f/lb for deer. 1500 f/lb for moose and 300-400 for coyotes.
There may be new figures out in the last 6 weeks, but these are the figures we have been using for hunter safety courses since 1975. They were still valid on the last course I taught in Dec.2002
In Alberta, it is illegal to use a ..223 on deer, at any distance.
I have shot approx 70 deer with a rifle and cannot think of a circumstance where I wish I was using a .223. I can think of a some where I am glad I wasn't using one.
The size of deer does not enter into my equation as some were 100 lbs. and some were close to 300 lbs. I have shot coyotes weighing less than 35 lbs. through the chest broadside and needed a second shot to kill them. I certainly will not shoot a deer with the same rifle amd expect it to drop dead.
As far as claiming a .223 is effective on moose to 150 yds., I won't even comment on that.
Can a deer be killed with a .223? Of course. It can also be killed with alot of other things. That doesn't mean that they are all suitable to use.
What happens to these head shots at 100,200, or 300 yds. when you break the animals jaw? Just wondering.
There may be new figures out in the last 6 weeks, but these are the figures we have been using for hunter safety courses since 1975. They were still valid on the last course I taught in Dec.2002
In Alberta, it is illegal to use a ..223 on deer, at any distance.
I have shot approx 70 deer with a rifle and cannot think of a circumstance where I wish I was using a .223. I can think of a some where I am glad I wasn't using one.
The size of deer does not enter into my equation as some were 100 lbs. and some were close to 300 lbs. I have shot coyotes weighing less than 35 lbs. through the chest broadside and needed a second shot to kill them. I certainly will not shoot a deer with the same rifle amd expect it to drop dead.
As far as claiming a .223 is effective on moose to 150 yds., I won't even comment on that.
Can a deer be killed with a .223? Of course. It can also be killed with alot of other things. That doesn't mean that they are all suitable to use.
What happens to these head shots at 100,200, or 300 yds. when you break the animals jaw? Just wondering.
erschiessen
New member
You guys in the Great White North, that are dead set against it gotta remember, your does are bigger than our bucks.
I would use the .223 on deer in PA. Even buck hunting, where a huge one may break the 200 pound mark. That being said, I would only use the .223 for deer if my wife didn't know I was sneaking out with it.
I wouldn't want to upset her, as a few years back she bought me a Remington .30-06 pumper, and I feel compelled to take that for PA's big game. LOL
I would use the .223 on deer in PA. Even buck hunting, where a huge one may break the 200 pound mark. That being said, I would only use the .223 for deer if my wife didn't know I was sneaking out with it.
I wouldn't want to upset her, as a few years back she bought me a Remington .30-06 pumper, and I feel compelled to take that for PA's big game. LOL
Caninethumper,
I would take another look at Montana's regs. I don't have them in front of me BUT I don't believe it says a .22 rimfire is legal for shooting deer. What it says is you need to match the caliber of gun to the game animal (without setting a minimum). You would have a very difficult time explaining a .22 rimfire shot deer at a check station. While we are on the topic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I would take another look at Montana's regs. I don't have them in front of me BUT I don't believe it says a .22 rimfire is legal for shooting deer. What it says is you need to match the caliber of gun to the game animal (without setting a minimum). You would have a very difficult time explaining a .22 rimfire shot deer at a check station. While we are on the topic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Redfrog
Moderator
Erschiessen, please read my last post. The size of the deer does not matter to me. I have killed coastal backtail that I'm sure would make Pa. whitetails look like real deer.
I have used a $100 hunting knife to tighten a screw on my gun.Does that make it the best tool for the job because it was a small screw? Or because someone else did it once, or because I saw it in a cartoon and I think I can do it.
It isn't real complicated.
If it is legal, and if you want to use it, then use it.
MY EXPERIENCE and research tells me it is a poor tool for the job. Going hunting and only having a head shot my only option because my firearm is marginal at best, is a non starter for me.
BTW you probably will look long and hard to find someone who is happier with the .223 than I am. For coyotes it is awesome. Shots to 300 yds. and beyond= dead coyote and minimal fur damage. Goota like it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I have used a $100 hunting knife to tighten a screw on my gun.Does that make it the best tool for the job because it was a small screw? Or because someone else did it once, or because I saw it in a cartoon and I think I can do it.
It isn't real complicated.
If it is legal, and if you want to use it, then use it.
MY EXPERIENCE and research tells me it is a poor tool for the job. Going hunting and only having a head shot my only option because my firearm is marginal at best, is a non starter for me.
BTW you probably will look long and hard to find someone who is happier with the .223 than I am. For coyotes it is awesome. Shots to 300 yds. and beyond= dead coyote and minimal fur damage. Goota like it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
erschiessen
New member
He asked if it would be ok. If that's all he has to use, and he's a good shot, then IMO, it's better to take it out than to stay at home.
I don't know where he's from and what the size of the deer would be. I do know that the 45gr Winchest Varmint loads work very well on coyotes. I shot 2 last week, in Maine... had one pass-through on a 30lb female, and the other entrance only on a ~40lb male.
Both were shot in the ribs. Now I just need a .223 that is legal to hunt with in Pennsylvania.
I don't know where he's from and what the size of the deer would be. I do know that the 45gr Winchest Varmint loads work very well on coyotes. I shot 2 last week, in Maine... had one pass-through on a 30lb female, and the other entrance only on a ~40lb male.
Both were shot in the ribs. Now I just need a .223 that is legal to hunt with in Pennsylvania.