223 for deer hunting

It is probably safe to say that some people can't make a clean kill with a 30-06, no one on this board or course.

So much depends on the guy or gal behind the rifle.
 
That's true. Shot placement is key, but just hitting the animal is the first step. It doesn't matter if your using a handgernade if you miss. Although I think the handgernade method may bring up some other issues!! :eek:
 
The 223 is as good a close range deer round as any other, even with a heart/lung shot. You don't have to have a cannon to kill a deer, some of these people that think it takes a 300 mag to take a deer cleanly would probably think it would take a 105 howitzer to take a grizzly. The way some of these guys think, bow hunting should be outlawed.
 
The topic that never dies!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I think that we have established the .223 as a round capable of killing a deer, with proper shot placement. I'm not sure we can beat this horse much more but I am willing if the situation presents itself.
 
I have been using a 22.250 for years on dear and have had more run and walk several yards that I shot with a 30.06 than with a 22.250. However, this season my new AR15 will be doing all the work. Here in Texas as anywhere else shot placement is a must even with a hvy hitter like a 30.06. Never had one complaint from any deer and very very little wasted meat.
 
I for one don't think the .223 is adequate for deer! I don't even think it's adequate for it's military application either!! :rolleyes: And after reading these post's by supposed ethical hunters that advicate the use of such a small caliber with marginal energy (PS Deer require 800ftlbs Min) I would suggest those of us that are ethical start getting the laws changed to ensure that these small calibers are used for what they were intended to be used on-Varmits!! :rolleyes: Just becuase you can doesn't make it right /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

As for the MT Regs dicussion -they wrote the regs in such away that left it up to (Ethical hunters) to make a chioce as to what caliber(Proper caliber) should be used on big game. Obviously that was a mistake!!
 
Guys I know that a 223 is plenty enough for deer...this year alone i have harvested at 170 pound 8point and 2 does that both went 130+...shooting 55grain rem cor lokt...not one has went over 15 yards.....and i shot 2 of them at almost 200 yards...I believe that its not the caliber its where you hit the deer...you could kill a deer with a .22 lr if you hit it in the right spot...but just because a deer runs after you hit it doesnt mean its not ethical...some people believe in over kill...big calibers just arent neccessary unless you are hunting 250 lb canadian deer...
 
Originally posted by Davy:
[qb]I think we owe to all the animals we hunt to have sufficient firepower to kill them ethically. I personally don't think the 223 is a good choice for deer. Not saying it won't, but it is important to be equipped for the less than ideal shot.[/qb]
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Your first sentance is absolutly correct! We do owe it to the game we hunt to make the best, fastest and cleanest kill as possible! You also must have the utmost respect and admiration for the game you hunt or you should not be out there hunting. I hunt for two reasons.
1. To fill my freezer with excellent eating for my family.
2. For the sporting challange of being in the wild.

With that said, would I shoot a deer with a .223? NEVER! My choice would be 7mm or 30-06, both have what you need to safly take deer.

Remember, to be a hunter you must learn ethics. Have respect for the game you are in pursue of and make clean kill's. My .02
 
Yes, in fact, Nebraska requires a caliber to deliver 900 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards. Most .223 loads do that.

You could head shoot them for the quickest kill. I know of a lot of guys who hunt deer with a Mini 14.
 
The use of a weak round on game is not sporting. There are plenty of guns for sale that will do a good job on deer all of the time. The .223 is not one of them

There seems to be some kind of a perverse desire to kill a deer with the smallest cartridge possible. This must impress someone. It does not impress me.

I did not read any of the other posts and don't intend to.
 
If you guys are really into the low power thing, then focus on the really low power issue, shooting game with an arrow. There is no way by what I've read that anyone should even consider using a bow to take game, let alone the dangerous game. Must be an ego thing for them too , huh. I use to be a bow hunter and have lost game to a misplaced arrow due to an unseen limb. I also tracked a deer this weekend for 2 1/2 hours for another guy, and in ethical terms that animal suffered for that long before a coup de grace could be applied. It is not an ego or a ethical matter in my opinion in shooting the smaller calibers. I talked to a guy at the locker plant where I was dropping off a deer killed by the much under powered 243 and he had shot a deer, he informed me the deer was so big he had to shoot it three times to get it down with a 30-06, when he saw mine he asked how many times did you shoot him he's a biggun, I replied once in the right place. Shooting skills can not be replaced with power.
 
As A person who has taken over 150 big game animals in my lifetime and guided on many more kills I will give you my opinion for what it is worth. I have killed animals with everything from a 338 mag to the 223. Nothing and I will repeat nothing will replace adequate marksmanship. When I was guiding I would much rather see someone show up with a 223 that had spent the time to learn to shoot than someone show up with a 338 who had put a half a box of shells through it. There is no substitute for trigger time. Is a 223 an adequate round for the average hunter? My opinion is no, but neather is a 30-06. The average hunter goes out the weekend before the season and shoots a box of shells through their gun and think they are ready to shoot game at 400 yards. Wounding loss has much more to do with the shooter than what they shoot. Just my 2cents worth.

Scott
 
A .223 for deer? I know for sure that if you are an ethical hunter, that you would not underpower such a magnificent game animal. I know some say shoot them in the head, but why take that chance of missing by 2 inches and blowing off its jaw, or blowing your chances, no matter how great a shooter you are. Step up a couple calibers AT LEAST, you will be much more confident when you shoot. So, in not so many words, a .223 is not meant for deer.
 
Oh yea, Someone mentioned in an earlier post that you should be equiped for a less than ideal shot. Why? Does an ethical sportsman take less than ideal shots? I think not. The reason my wife used my 250 for moose was that it was a rifle that she was comfortable shooting. AW
 
Oh yea, Someone mentioned in an earlier post that you should be equiped for a less than ideal shot. Why? Does an ethical sportsman take less than ideal shots? I think not. The reason my wife used my 250 for moose was that it was a rifle that she was comfortable shooting and I was confident that she could make a clean kill with it. AW
 
I tried to stay away from this thread for several reasons, however I'll cut to the chase by going on record and giving my thoughts to this ongoing topic.

I for one say NO to the .223 as a caliber to be used on deer or any other big game animal. As far as the military goes, it should have never happened. The .243 was on the boards for that job, but politics erased it from sight. It is easy to kill a human being......look what the M-1 carbine did in Korea (It had a hard time killing rats in the barn). I'll take an M-14 or M-1 Grand any day!

Let's look at all aspects of killing a big buck shall we? Now a 300 pound corn feed mature deer is not always going to give the hunter a perfect broadside presentation at 50 yards every time out the gate. If the hunter is faced with a quartering away shot at 150 yards using the .223 and takes it, (sectonal density is NOT good for a big game caliber .171 in a 60 grn Nosler bullet) chances are penetration will not get the job done. I feel it is far to iffy of a caliber on big whitetales or mulies. Please don't try to tell me about the Barnes bullets and their penetration.......I have been down that road with petals that never open in tests conducted with several calibers over the last 2 years.

I feel that the smallest caliber to be used on deer in general should be the .243 or 6mm Remington with a 100 grn bullet. If used with a good premium bullet it does a much better job on any deer out there. The 200 yard down range energy is close to 1400 pounds for the .243 cal. verses the .223's 700 pounds, penetration is much deeper with the .243 and 100 grn bullet.
 
I guess everything has been said that needs to be. The .223 would not be my pick for deer hunting. (Neither do I like the 6mm) BUT if all I had was a .223 and wanted to go deer hunting. I would go (assuming it was legal) and not worry one whit about what the moralists thought. I have a friend, an old man who kills all his deer with a .22 magnum rimfire. It is not legal but that is his business and it works very well for him. Most of the poachers in my part of the world prefer the .22 mag because of the lack of noise. I make every effort to hunt legal. But the only one who has to be satisfied with my ethics is ME. And I guess that is what bothers me about this thread. Not the differing opinions. But those who want to FORCE those who disagree into their mold.
My ethics don't allow me to stick an arrow in an animal. But I have no desire to force that view on any other hunter. However, I require the same from them.
OC
 
Bennie
Arrow's and bullet -apples and oranges!! Let's stick to bullets!! Ethic's is what this boils down to plain and simple -those that have ethic's wil not use a .22 caliber anything on big game. Those that don't, will. Head shots are not ethical shots on big game -to much room for error and the possibility of a cripple getting away- again ethic's. Tell me how many of you see your favorite hunting show shooter's advicating head shots on big game- I don't think you find one!!! If you've have someone- dad grandfather whose a hunter ask them what there opion on this subject- I bet they will not support you in this. I was lucky to have both my Dad and Grandfather as my teachers of the ethical hunting pratices unfortunately today we don't have that anymore or to many of us have forgotten what we we're taught!! Sound like there are many "hunter's" and I use this term loosely that need to rethink why they hunt. Rant off!! :rolleyes:
 
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