223 out to 500 yards
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nightcaller
Active member
Originally Posted By: pyscodogA 125 grain bullet from a 308 is close to 3200FPS, a 115 from a 243 is 2900+/-. Not to bad for the slow 308.
So you're comparing the fastest 308 load to the slowest 243 load when we're talking about shots 500+? Did you happen to consider the ballistic coefficient or drop difference or wind effect on those bullets ?
Not a very well thought out argument. Kinda like saying my taurus goes faster than your Porsche...... as long as you never shift out of first gear.
So you're comparing the fastest 308 load to the slowest 243 load when we're talking about shots 500+? Did you happen to consider the ballistic coefficient or drop difference or wind effect on those bullets ?
Not a very well thought out argument. Kinda like saying my taurus goes faster than your Porsche...... as long as you never shift out of first gear.
Dultimatpredator
Well-known member
I run 70 NBT a little hot out of my 243 at 3650 fps. I'm running the same speed out if my 223 with 40 gr NBT. The trajectory isn't much different untill you get past 300 yards. Even jumping up to a 4000fps round only flattens about an inch in trajectory. I loaded up some 55gr NBT for my 26" barreled 243 and will try them out after rut is over. I have them loaded from minimum to a little hotter than book...about a grain or two over max to check pressures. I'm guessing my max loads if no pressure will be around 4200/4250fps. There aren't too many factory chambered calibers that are going to shoot Flatter to 500 yards than 55 gr 243 without turning you around and tearing your shoulder off or spending a lot of time messing with shaping brass for a custom wildcat chambering IMO.
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Originally Posted By: nightcallerOriginally Posted By: hm1996
ETA: JMO, but I do not shoot game past 300 as just one step at the moment the trigger breaks will result in a bad hit even if everything was perfect when the shot broke.
Regards,
hm
Im sure that sounds good in your head but what a bunch of BS. How far forward do the vitals of a standing deer move when the deer takes a step? Even the slowest calibers are going to take 1/3 of a second to travel 300yds vs 1 full second at 700yds. 2/3 of a second more.
I better keep reading the stank seems to be getting deeper.
I do apologize for not being more precise in my choice of words in my reply to OP which you were so kind as to provide above. I should have said at the moment after which it is impossible to keep from breaking the shot instead of "at the moment the trigger breaks", but I figured most of the folks on this forum would understand my meaning. I do admit, there IS a difference if we wish to use a stop watch and pick nits.
Oh, and you might want to read the OP's first post before throwing a grenade in the room. OP asked if a .223 was a good choice to shoot hogs @ 500 yards, so the subject is hogs, not deer. The vital area on a hog is considerably smaller than that of a deer, especially if the desired POI is half way between the eye and ear....maybe 4"????
Originally Posted By: rickybWhere I deer hunt we have a lot of hogs and shots up to 500 yards are possible. I’m trying to decide on spending the time on the 223 because it looks like after 300 yds she starts dropping out.
I do hope this helps clear the air a bit.
Regards,
hm
ETA: JMO, but I do not shoot game past 300 as just one step at the moment the trigger breaks will result in a bad hit even if everything was perfect when the shot broke.
Regards,
hm
Im sure that sounds good in your head but what a bunch of BS. How far forward do the vitals of a standing deer move when the deer takes a step? Even the slowest calibers are going to take 1/3 of a second to travel 300yds vs 1 full second at 700yds. 2/3 of a second more.
I better keep reading the stank seems to be getting deeper.
I do apologize for not being more precise in my choice of words in my reply to OP which you were so kind as to provide above. I should have said at the moment after which it is impossible to keep from breaking the shot instead of "at the moment the trigger breaks", but I figured most of the folks on this forum would understand my meaning. I do admit, there IS a difference if we wish to use a stop watch and pick nits.
Oh, and you might want to read the OP's first post before throwing a grenade in the room. OP asked if a .223 was a good choice to shoot hogs @ 500 yards, so the subject is hogs, not deer. The vital area on a hog is considerably smaller than that of a deer, especially if the desired POI is half way between the eye and ear....maybe 4"????
Originally Posted By: rickybWhere I deer hunt we have a lot of hogs and shots up to 500 yards are possible. I’m trying to decide on spending the time on the 223 because it looks like after 300 yds she starts dropping out.
I do hope this helps clear the air a bit.
Regards,
hm
Dultimatpredator
Well-known member
On the three I shot in my life it seems like Hogs are some tough critters. First one I shot was in a game farm using dogs about 22 years ago. Had to try it once and wasn't excited about the non fair chase ordeal. Anyways I used my bow. I was shooting 68 lbs and using muzzy 90 gr four blade broad heads and ACC arrows. I was taking broadside shots on a huge boar. My first three shots stopped on the huge shoulder plate and ribs. None of the first three arrows ever entered the hog. The hog stopped my arrows like steel wall. My last arrow I aimed a couple inches back and my arrow went completely through the hog with the broad head sticking a couple inches out the other side. It chased me up a tree after that [beeep] and then ran about 45 yards and ran in circles with the digs chasing it and finally dropped. I shot two more years later on public land. One with a 243 NBT pushing 3350 fps. Shot it right behind the front shoulder. The hog shook like it was quivering and ran like it wasn't hit. It ran about 20 yards into the brush and started kicking. The bullet never exited. The last one I shot was with my Muzzel loader. 150 gr of 777 pellets and a 50 cal 300 gr shockwave saboted bullet. The hog was a few feet from me. I shot it broadside perfectly right behind the shoulder like I would bow hunting to take out the hear and lungs. Huge entrance and exit holes. The hog ran like it wasn't shot and made it a good 150 to 175 plus yards with a huge blood trail.
Guess I'll take head shots next time so I can drop them where they stand.
Never shot a pig with a 223. I'm sure if hit in head it will drop them but if it were me I'd want a bigger diameter, heavier bullet in case I made a marginal shot. That way you have a bigger wound channel for a better blood trail. Pigs are blind as bats...do you really need to take a five hundred yard shot on them. Are you hunting or sniping? Just walk/stalk with the wind in your face to get in closer and shoot them.
Guess I'll take head shots next time so I can drop them where they stand.
Never shot a pig with a 223. I'm sure if hit in head it will drop them but if it were me I'd want a bigger diameter, heavier bullet in case I made a marginal shot. That way you have a bigger wound channel for a better blood trail. Pigs are blind as bats...do you really need to take a five hundred yard shot on them. Are you hunting or sniping? Just walk/stalk with the wind in your face to get in closer and shoot them.
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Originally Posted By: 19grizz69my custom ruger 243 shoots 55 nbts at 4350 ftps. ...wind has to be over 15 mph to effect it.
Must be something wrong with the 55 NBT's I'm using. Only takes 10 MPH full value to push them about a foot and a half sideways at 500 yards. My 6-284 is only pushing them about 4300 fps though.
- DAA
Must be something wrong with the 55 NBT's I'm using. Only takes 10 MPH full value to push them about a foot and a half sideways at 500 yards. My 6-284 is only pushing them about 4300 fps though.
- DAA
Originally Posted By: DAAOriginally Posted By: 19grizz69my custom ruger 243 shoots 55 nbts at 4350 ftps. ...wind has to be over 15 mph to effect it.
Must be something wrong with the 55 NBT's I'm using. Only takes 10 MPH full value to push them about a foot and a half sideways at 500 yards. My 6-284 is only pushing them about 4300 fps though.
- DAA
Careful there Dave!
You’ll get in trouble for throwing the bool-schatt flag around here nowadays.
Must be something wrong with the 55 NBT's I'm using. Only takes 10 MPH full value to push them about a foot and a half sideways at 500 yards. My 6-284 is only pushing them about 4300 fps though.
- DAA
Careful there Dave!
You’ll get in trouble for throwing the bool-schatt flag around here nowadays.
steve garrett
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: DAAOriginally Posted By: 19grizz69my custom ruger 243 shoots 55 nbts at 4350 ftps. ...wind has to be over 15 mph to effect it.
Must be something wrong with the 55 NBT's I'm using. Only takes 10 MPH full value to push them about a foot and a half sideways at 500 yards. My 6-284 is only pushing them about 4300 fps though.
- DAA
Careful there Dave!
You’ll get in trouble for throwing the bool-schatt flag around here nowadays.
lordy, no coffee this morning. let me know if I need to bring cigars and a jetboil, dave.
Must be something wrong with the 55 NBT's I'm using. Only takes 10 MPH full value to push them about a foot and a half sideways at 500 yards. My 6-284 is only pushing them about 4300 fps though.
- DAA
Careful there Dave!
You’ll get in trouble for throwing the bool-schatt flag around here nowadays.
lordy, no coffee this morning. let me know if I need to bring cigars and a jetboil, dave.
Originally Posted By: pyscodogA 125 grain bullet from a 308 is close to 3200FPS, a 115 from a 243 is 2900+/-. Not to bad for the slow 308.
Matter of fact, while trying to decide between 308 Win. and .243 Win. to replace my pet 243 WSSM for combination coyote, hog rifle, and deer rifle, I did compare ballistics on the two cartridges.
Obviously, since this thread referred to hogs, Bill was comparing bullets suitable for hogs in the .308 & .243, thus chose the heavier .243 bullet, but bottom chart compares both 70 gr. and heavier 100 gr. (hog) bullet.
Using .366 BC for 125 gr. NBT @ 3200 fps (B on chart) (most accurate load listed in Nosler data) and 2929 fps (A on chart & most accurate load in my 18" Savage Scout):
243 Win. data comparing lighter bullet to heavier bullet best suited for hog hunting.
After comparing the ballistics on both calibers I chose the .308 as most suitable for my purposes.
Regards,
hm
Matter of fact, while trying to decide between 308 Win. and .243 Win. to replace my pet 243 WSSM for combination coyote, hog rifle, and deer rifle, I did compare ballistics on the two cartridges.
Obviously, since this thread referred to hogs, Bill was comparing bullets suitable for hogs in the .308 & .243, thus chose the heavier .243 bullet, but bottom chart compares both 70 gr. and heavier 100 gr. (hog) bullet.
Using .366 BC for 125 gr. NBT @ 3200 fps (B on chart) (most accurate load listed in Nosler data) and 2929 fps (A on chart & most accurate load in my 18" Savage Scout):
243 Win. data comparing lighter bullet to heavier bullet best suited for hog hunting.
After comparing the ballistics on both calibers I chose the .308 as most suitable for my purposes.
Regards,
hm
Originally Posted By: hm1996As Bob stated, 223 light on hogs, especially at long range.
I've culled a lot of hogs while hunting coyotes w/.223AR & 55 gr. NBT's but with one exception all were head shots. Don't try frontal head shots w/above, even at 50 yards as bullet will splash and deflect!! Broadside between eye and ear works fine out to 100 or so but I prefer the 243 WSSM (or 308) for hogs.
Several years ago we took out 39 hogs ,probably 1/3 were with the .223, but I don't stretch the shots, especially w/the .223.
ETA: JMO, but I do not shoot game past 300 as just one step at the moment the trigger breaks will result in a bad hit even if everything was perfect when the shot broke.
Regards,
hm
I think that this is so well stated. You have to know what your caliber/ammunition limitations are. When you learn them, you know what shots you can/cannot take. To try and get a cartridge/caliber to do something that it doesn't do well is like putting a square peg into a round hole.
This some great advice!
I've culled a lot of hogs while hunting coyotes w/.223AR & 55 gr. NBT's but with one exception all were head shots. Don't try frontal head shots w/above, even at 50 yards as bullet will splash and deflect!! Broadside between eye and ear works fine out to 100 or so but I prefer the 243 WSSM (or 308) for hogs.
Several years ago we took out 39 hogs ,probably 1/3 were with the .223, but I don't stretch the shots, especially w/the .223.
ETA: JMO, but I do not shoot game past 300 as just one step at the moment the trigger breaks will result in a bad hit even if everything was perfect when the shot broke.
Regards,
hm
I think that this is so well stated. You have to know what your caliber/ammunition limitations are. When you learn them, you know what shots you can/cannot take. To try and get a cartridge/caliber to do something that it doesn't do well is like putting a square peg into a round hole.
This some great advice!
nightcaller
Active member
Originally Posted By: hm1996Originally Posted By: pyscodogA 125 grain bullet from a 308 is close to 3200FPS, a 115 from a 243 is 2900+/-. Not to bad for the slow 308.
Matter of fact, while trying to decide between 308 Win. and .243 Win. to replace my pet 243 WSSM for combination coyote, hog rifle, and deer rifle, I did compare ballistics on the two cartridges.
Obviously, since this thread referred to hogs, Bill was comparing bullets suitable for hogs in the .308 & .243, thus chose the heavier .243 bullet, but bottom chart compares both 70 gr. and heavier 100 gr. (hog) bullet.
Using .366 BC for 125 gr. NBT @ 3200 fps (B on chart) (most accurate load listed in Nosler data) and 2929 fps (A on chart & most accurate load in my 18" Savage Scout):
243 Win. data comparing lighter bullet to heavier bullet best suited for hog hunting.
After comparing the ballistics on both calibers I chose the .308 as most suitable for my purposes.
Regards,
hm
That was an exceptional job of using only numbers that support your opinion. Not sure what your post is trying to say about comparing the 150gr fmj. And your comparing your hand loads that shot 3200fps out of your 18" barrel to a factory load well below max pressure. Come on, if you're going to post hot hand loads for comparison at least compare them to a hot load of the opposing caliber. Your graphics make very little sense as the bullet labels say 150gr fmj, but you're trying to compare 125 bt. You are also, I think, trying to compare your very hot loads to a mild factory load.
Matter of fact, while trying to decide between 308 Win. and .243 Win. to replace my pet 243 WSSM for combination coyote, hog rifle, and deer rifle, I did compare ballistics on the two cartridges.
Obviously, since this thread referred to hogs, Bill was comparing bullets suitable for hogs in the .308 & .243, thus chose the heavier .243 bullet, but bottom chart compares both 70 gr. and heavier 100 gr. (hog) bullet.
Using .366 BC for 125 gr. NBT @ 3200 fps (B on chart) (most accurate load listed in Nosler data) and 2929 fps (A on chart & most accurate load in my 18" Savage Scout):
243 Win. data comparing lighter bullet to heavier bullet best suited for hog hunting.
After comparing the ballistics on both calibers I chose the .308 as most suitable for my purposes.
Regards,
hm
That was an exceptional job of using only numbers that support your opinion. Not sure what your post is trying to say about comparing the 150gr fmj. And your comparing your hand loads that shot 3200fps out of your 18" barrel to a factory load well below max pressure. Come on, if you're going to post hot hand loads for comparison at least compare them to a hot load of the opposing caliber. Your graphics make very little sense as the bullet labels say 150gr fmj, but you're trying to compare 125 bt. You are also, I think, trying to compare your very hot loads to a mild factory load.
Originally Posted By: nightcaller That was an exceptional job of using only numbers that support your opinion. Not sure what your post is trying to say about comparing the 150gr fmj. And your comparing your hand loads that shot 3200fps out of your 18" barrel to a factory load well below max pressure.
First of all, this post was a reply to OP's question as to suitability of the .308 as a hog rifle. Not trying to prove anything, just offering some research I did which helped me to choose the .308.
Hopefully the color codes, as related to the data presented will help clarify any confusion.
Quote:Using .366 BC for 125 gr. NBT @ 3200 fps (B on chart) (most accurate load listed in Nosler data) and 2929 fps (A on chart & most accurate load in my 18" Savage Scout):
Now that we understand the first graph, I do apologize for any confusion resulting from the .308 screen shot. Unfortunately, GunData Ballistic Calculator makes no provision for calculating handloads. The only way to arrive at handload data is to start with the closest caliber factory load and substitute your handload's specific BC, Bullet weight, and velocity, thus calculates data for the 125 gr. NBT but heading still shows FMJ bullets on the screen shot.
Originally Posted By: nightcallerCome on, if you're going to post hot hand loads for comparison at least compare them to a hot load of the opposing caliber. Your graphics make very little sense as the bullet labels say 150gr fmj, but you're trying to compare 125 bt. You are also, I think, trying to compare your very hot loads to a mild factory load.
I ran the comparison between the much slower handload which my (18" barreled) rifle likes and the most accurate load listed in Nosler's data, not the hottest for my own information.
Since I don't own a 243, I did not take the time to substitute 243 BC, bullet weight, velocities. Here is the Nosler load data if you care to do so, be my guest.
Regards,
hm
First of all, this post was a reply to OP's question as to suitability of the .308 as a hog rifle. Not trying to prove anything, just offering some research I did which helped me to choose the .308.
Hopefully the color codes, as related to the data presented will help clarify any confusion.
Quote:Using .366 BC for 125 gr. NBT @ 3200 fps (B on chart) (most accurate load listed in Nosler data) and 2929 fps (A on chart & most accurate load in my 18" Savage Scout):
Now that we understand the first graph, I do apologize for any confusion resulting from the .308 screen shot. Unfortunately, GunData Ballistic Calculator makes no provision for calculating handloads. The only way to arrive at handload data is to start with the closest caliber factory load and substitute your handload's specific BC, Bullet weight, and velocity, thus calculates data for the 125 gr. NBT but heading still shows FMJ bullets on the screen shot.
Originally Posted By: nightcallerCome on, if you're going to post hot hand loads for comparison at least compare them to a hot load of the opposing caliber. Your graphics make very little sense as the bullet labels say 150gr fmj, but you're trying to compare 125 bt. You are also, I think, trying to compare your very hot loads to a mild factory load.
I ran the comparison between the much slower handload which my (18" barreled) rifle likes and the most accurate load listed in Nosler's data, not the hottest for my own information.
Since I don't own a 243, I did not take the time to substitute 243 BC, bullet weight, velocities. Here is the Nosler load data if you care to do so, be my guest.
Regards,
hm
Dultimatpredator
Well-known member
You guys got me all fired up. I ordered a 243 complete upper for a hop and a jump the other day...but if I were shooting huge hogs at five hundred yards I'd. Want a heavy .308 diameter bullet spanking them.