GreatNorthWest
New member
My friend wants to sell me a Winchester m70 stealth 223 WSSM for a very good price. I don't know if I want to mess with the 223 wssm cartridge, as I am not familiar. Anyone have any thoughts on the cartridge good or bad?
223 WSSM
- Thread starter GreatNorthWest
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CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: GreatNorthWestMy friend wants to sell me a Winchester m70 stealth 223 WSSM for a very good price. I don't know if I want to mess with the 223 wssm cartridge, as I am not familiar. Anyone have any thoughts on the cartridge good or bad?
Lotta problems...
The cartridge is way too large for the bore size and eats up barrels very fast.
They went to chrome plated bores to try to lengthen the barrel life, but the chrome plate started peeling out and that was even worser than the burned up throats.
The case necks are very thick are a problem to reload.
Pass... there is a reason that it is such a "very good price".
.
Lotta problems...
The cartridge is way too large for the bore size and eats up barrels very fast.
They went to chrome plated bores to try to lengthen the barrel life, but the chrome plate started peeling out and that was even worser than the burned up throats.
The case necks are very thick are a problem to reload.
Pass... there is a reason that it is such a "very good price".
.
Smokeless
New member
Originally Posted By: GreatNorthWestMy friend wants to sell me a Winchester m70 stealth 223 WSSM for a very good price. I don't know if I want to mess with the 223 wssm cartridge, as I am not familiar. Anyone have any thoughts on the cartridge good or bad?
I have a friend who owned one. Shooting with factory ammo with his kids, and came to the last shell in the box, shot it and the gun exploded sending shrapnell in his eye and face.
He is ok, but I would pass on the 223wssm.
I have a friend who owned one. Shooting with factory ammo with his kids, and came to the last shell in the box, shot it and the gun exploded sending shrapnell in his eye and face.
He is ok, but I would pass on the 223wssm.
Darkker
New member
I built one off a Savage large shank, So no chrome bore. I have about a thousand down the barrel with no accuracy loss. OBVIOUSLY this gun isn't built to be taken to a dogtown and have a billion rounds shot every day...
That said, Cat nailed the brass issues. Hard to get, Terribly thick necks(unless you like being REQUIRED to turn new brass) Terrible annealing job from the factory.
Another issue is the dies/tools. Tried 2 different brands with the same issues. The rim is so large, you need to "modify" hand primer tools. The body is fat, the neck is small; meaning that the necks(in part because of crap brass) like to get crushed in the sizing operation.
Seems if you work the press slowly it is fine, if you work at "regular" speed; you just lost a piece of brass.
I'll sell you mine cheap if you want a new toy, that requires some hair pulling
That said, Cat nailed the brass issues. Hard to get, Terribly thick necks(unless you like being REQUIRED to turn new brass) Terrible annealing job from the factory.
Another issue is the dies/tools. Tried 2 different brands with the same issues. The rim is so large, you need to "modify" hand primer tools. The body is fat, the neck is small; meaning that the necks(in part because of crap brass) like to get crushed in the sizing operation.
Seems if you work the press slowly it is fine, if you work at "regular" speed; you just lost a piece of brass.
I'll sell you mine cheap if you want a new toy, that requires some hair pulling
ab_bentley
New member
Have a friend in Ky. Had one of the Winnies. He did load development and nailed two coyotes with it. Then he statred missing with it, 100yd misses. Scoped the bore and the chrome lined barrel was erroding. He had just shy of 150rds through his. Adam
Ridgeline17
New member
Went thru this a couple of months ago, then the guys set me straight. Done the research on the shadows in 223 WSSM. There is multiple issues with the chambering of these rifles. You would be better off getting a 243 Win and enjoy it, besides tinkering with these. Just my 2 cents.
MPFD
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Darkker The rim is so large, you need to "modify" hand primer tools. The body is fat, the neck is small; meaning that the necks(in part because of crap brass) like to get crushed in the sizing operation.
Seems if you work the press slowly it is fine, if you work at "regular" speed; you just lost a piece of brass.
My findings exactly, but I was using 7mm WSM brass. I had to modify mine as well. I use a Lee had primer tool and after a little drimmel work it works fine.
I'd like to build a Savage some day with a custom barrel in this cartridge with a 1-12" twist to send 40 g. Vmax down range at mach 2...
Seems if you work the press slowly it is fine, if you work at "regular" speed; you just lost a piece of brass.
My findings exactly, but I was using 7mm WSM brass. I had to modify mine as well. I use a Lee had primer tool and after a little drimmel work it works fine.
I'd like to build a Savage some day with a custom barrel in this cartridge with a 1-12" twist to send 40 g. Vmax down range at mach 2...
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: MPFD
"I'd like to build a Savage some day with a custom barrel in this cartridge with a 1-12" twist to send 40 g. Vmax down range at mach 2... "
40gr at Mach 2 - Damm, a 22 Hornet will do better than that - it'll reach Mach 2.5 with a 40 gr bullet
"I'd like to build a Savage some day with a custom barrel in this cartridge with a 1-12" twist to send 40 g. Vmax down range at mach 2... "
40gr at Mach 2 - Damm, a 22 Hornet will do better than that - it'll reach Mach 2.5 with a 40 gr bullet
K-22hornet.
New member
My son once owned a Winny in 223wssm, andd it turned out to be the worst shooting rifle I have ever encountered, ever!
My notes are full of 6" groups, 2 on paper, 3 off paper, 10" groups, etc. The best load I could find was 45.0gr IMR 4350, and that produced 2" groups.
He traded it for a Browning, also in 223wssm, and that rifle will shoot well with a wide variety of loads.
My notes are full of 6" groups, 2 on paper, 3 off paper, 10" groups, etc. The best load I could find was 45.0gr IMR 4350, and that produced 2" groups.
He traded it for a Browning, also in 223wssm, and that rifle will shoot well with a wide variety of loads.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: MPFDOriginally Posted By: CatShooter40gr at Mach 2 - Damm, a 22 Hornet will do better than that - it'll reach Mach 2.5 with a 40 gr bullet
Sorry! I was trying to be dramatic and didn't know my mach speeds, I'll do better research next time. How about mach 6?...
OK, Mach 6 will do fine
Sorry! I was trying to be dramatic and didn't know my mach speeds, I'll do better research next time. How about mach 6?...
OK, Mach 6 will do fine
Ridgeline17
New member
I've gotta see this.
The Famous Grouse
New member
Pass. 223 WSSM will be, for good reason, the most talked about "bad idea" chamberings of the last 100 years.
Get a .22-250 and experience exactly none of the problems of the .223 WSSM.
Grouse
Get a .22-250 and experience exactly none of the problems of the .223 WSSM.
Grouse
The Famous Grouse
New member
Originally Posted By: DarkkerOriginally Posted By: The Famous Grouse223 WSSM will be, for good reason, the most talked about "bad idea" chamberings of the last 100 years.
No, That would be the 22-50BMG.
Or the .17-06 HMR.
There are a number of cartridges in contention for the best bad idea of the last century. My point is that the .223 WSSM is one of them and it's best to avoid all of them.
Grouse
No, That would be the 22-50BMG.
Or the .17-06 HMR.
There are a number of cartridges in contention for the best bad idea of the last century. My point is that the .223 WSSM is one of them and it's best to avoid all of them.
Grouse
ab_bentley
New member
Originally Posted By: The Famous GrouseOr the .17-06 HMR.
Grouse
I know someone who built a 20-06.
http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9500
http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10559
Adam
Grouse
I know someone who built a 20-06.
http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9500
http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10559
Adam
i had a model 70 223 wssm. one of the FEW guns i have sold.
it would not feed from the magazine if there was more than one round in the mag. velocities with published loads were no better than a 22-250 with the same bullets, but i was getting heavy bolt lift. accuracy was fair, it was an under 300 yard coyote gun. i did kill several coyotes with it, mostly over bait at about 100 yards.
brass i expensive and i only got 2 to 3 loadings out of it before i had cracks in the shoulders, and necks. i tried annealing and finally just asked myself why?
i will stick with my 22-250 thanks.
it would not feed from the magazine if there was more than one round in the mag. velocities with published loads were no better than a 22-250 with the same bullets, but i was getting heavy bolt lift. accuracy was fair, it was an under 300 yard coyote gun. i did kill several coyotes with it, mostly over bait at about 100 yards.
brass i expensive and i only got 2 to 3 loadings out of it before i had cracks in the shoulders, and necks. i tried annealing and finally just asked myself why?
i will stick with my 22-250 thanks.
Wow. I bought a Stealth in stainless steel CRF. Most groups are the size of a dime and sometimes I can put two bullets through the same hole. It is my wife's rifle. She loves it. Loud, but it does the job. Uses it for seal. I wish it weighed more, it is so light holding it steady is my only problem. But since it is "hers"...