223WSSM & 243WSSM

M

Mike McDonald

New member
Saw these for the first time today in the latest issue of The American Rifleman. Man, they are some squatty things, eh?

Has anybody heard anything about these new cartridges? What kind of performance/ballistics? Is brass available? When will NEF make a barrel in these so I can play with them without having to shell out $500 for a Browning or Winchester rifle?
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Mike,

These were discussed on the Firearms & Reloading forum a month of two ago. Check it out. There is also short article in the latest Rifle Shooter magazine, althought there isn't anything new in that article that wasn't already discussed here.

Bill
 
I might be wrong in the long run, but I think they are going to be a fart in the skillet, as my dad used to say.

The .223 WSSM is supposed to provide performance slightly above that of a .22-250, and the .243 WSSM is supposed to be slightly above that of the .243 Win. I see two problems here: Goofy-ass non-standard case head diameter, limiting ease of conversion of existing guns by hardcore shooters, and the fact that the 'power level' niche of each is already occupied. The .220 Swift and .22-250 AI both fill the area just above the .22-250, and the 6mm Rem and the .243 AI and 6mm AI fill the 'void' above the .243 Winchester. All proven cartridges, easily adaptable for people wanting to rebarrel a gun from an existing caliber (i.e. early adopters, the people whose opinions and impressions often make or break new cartridges).

Who knows for sure? Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see them being that much more accurate than exisitng cartridges, and if what I heard is correct, they fall pretty much smack right on top of other existing cartridges that've been around for years, both factory and wild cat. I think they would have been smarter to adopt something like the .22BR and 6mmBR, or perhaps the 'Dasher' versions, i.e. popular and proven cartridges.

YMMV,

Monte
 
milanuk - Largely what you are saying is true. Except for a couple of things that serious shooters might pay attention to. In the case of the 22-250 Ackley Improved. The neck is way too short and has alway suffered slightly from that. Also it is a wildcat. Factory case availability will be a BIG plus, it grinds my teeth to have to shoot 2 or 3 hundred rounds through a new barrel before serious load developement can begin. It is also a more efficient case than either the 22-250 or the 220 Swift. I suppose there is the 220 Swift to consider, but something about the Swift case churns my stomach and I absolutely would not own one, if given one I'd sell it before shooting it, stupid, yes but the truth none the less.

Also, and I consider this to be very exciting, Winchester is going to produce a shorter than a standard short action, action for this line of cases. Maybe a real manufacturer (Remington, Ruger, Savage, anything but Winchester) will follow suite and we will find ourselves with a whole new line of rifle actions to choose from. I for one am itchin' to set up a rifle to take advantage of the new case design. To bad the case design has to have the Winchester name associated with it.
 
Yep, another gimmick just to sell more guns. It is interesting about the head size, now you have to buy a new gun instead of just converting another one if you want one of the new cartridges. Also, if you buy it and don't like it, you can't convert it to anything else. Pretty much forces the purchase of more rifles. That being said, I like the idea of a really short action and would like to buy one. Only time will tell about their longevity. I tend to think they might not be around very long.
 
---Also, and I consider this to be very exciting, Winchester is going to produce a shorter than a standard short action, action for this line of cases.---

Bingo! This alone is MORE than enough to justify these new cases. Bushing a bolt face and installing a new extractor is a piece of cake for a competent 'smith. Meaning, these actions can be used for just about any short cartridge. Besides, once the actions are in production, it's a no-brainer for the mfg's to use them with smaller bolt faces in older cartridgeds that have always cried out for shorter actions.

Personally, I think these new designs will be popular and have staying power - PROVIDED they "deliver" on the performance and effiency being talked about and have no hidden "gotcha's" (like a stupid barrel twist, or poor feeding/function - that's the one I'm worried about). I'm definitely going to get rifles chambered for both. If I were a "new" buyer looking for a rifle with the performance level offered by these cartridges, I'd choose one of them over older less efficient designs in a heartbeat. The "short fat" powder column for increased accuracy and effiency concept is well proven and I for one and damn glad to see a manufacturer finally doing something along these lines.

Of course, I may be all wet and they may never catch on and just fade away.

As for the manufacturers coming up with this kind of stuff "just to sell more rifles", well, YEAH! That's what they DO. They should do a lot MORE of this kind of stuff, "just to sell more rifles", if you ask me. Selling more rifles is a GOOD thing! Personally, I'm addicted to rifles and I just love having more cool stuff to choose from and play with. Especially when I think it's a step in the right direction - which I think this is.

By the way - hard core experimenters have been playing with wildcats almost identical to these new cartridges for YEARS. They are hardly a "new" development. But the availability of component brass, and new shorter actions (which will presumably feed well), is something worth getting excited about if you have any interest in this sort of stuff.

- DAA
 
As for the manufacturers coming up with this kind of stuff "just to sell more rifles", well, YEAH! That's what they DO. They should do a lot MORE of this kind of stuff, "just to sell more rifles", if you ask me. Selling more rifles is a GOOD thing!
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I totally agree. I'm not as much of a gun nut as DAA (but only cause I can't afford that many guns) but I'm always glad when the manufacturers come up with firearms that people want to buy in droves. Anything that causes Sarah Brady to hack up a lung is a good thing in my book.

-dan
 
Personally, I am looking forward to the 243 WSSM. It gives me a chance to make it into a 6.5 WSSM. Does the world need a 6.5 WSSM? Probably not. Do I need one? Not really.

It does give me the excuse to build another rifle. What else is needed?

Actually I am not to sure that they will be a hit in the long, but you never know. I do think some of the varmint hunters will adopt them, and I would think that the 243 WSSM would make a great Whitetail rifle for some of the smaller women and kids.

Pecos
 
accuracy, accuracy, accuracy,

22ppc, Short fat case, extremely accurate.

The shorter and fatter the case the more accurate the round seems to be. Or at least that is what I was told by the guys playing with the wsm.

I can't wait to get my hands on one of them.

later pup
 
I think Pup has the right idea. Most of the cartrideges one finds on the line at benchrest matches are short, fat and squatty, to wit: 22 and 6mmPPC's, 22 and 6mmBR's. It's generally agreed that the short. stout cartridges are where the accuracy is at! I'm hoping to read some performance data on the ones that were recently introduced by Winchester. It means we reloaders will have to invest more money in equipment as well as new rifles. I haven't read anything yet about converting existing rifles. I doubt if we can do it inexpensively. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
 
Something new in the gun industry=more guns sold=more revenue for gun companies=gun industry becoming a larger part of the economy=more money to the NRA and other pro-gun lobbying=a better country! You owe it to your country to go buy another rifle!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Seriously though, I didn't mean to sound negative toward these by calling them gimmicks. I just think it is important to realize they are what they are; an effort to sell more guns. I want one, but not because my old stuff isn't any good any more. Good Luck!
 
I wonder since the cases are so fat that if your magazine capacity goes down?

On a side note, there are so many .243 rounds out there to choose from that i cannot really see a need for the new one. You can get a 55gr .243 that shoots 4000 fps and if sighted dead on at a 100 it is only 4" low at 300. That is flat shooting for a non-magnum.
 
Actually, if you look at the powder capacity vs. bore diameter, you'll see why the the .243 Win. has long had the moniker 'mini-magnum' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Monte
 
I think if the idea here is for a faster and more accurate rifle, and the manfacturer gets this in the new case design, all is well and good and it would be worth owning. But the fact remains, it is still a factory rifle, and there are more variables in accuracy than just case design. Some factory rifles are very accurate, and others, well are not so good. All tolerances would have to be tightened up. Is this going to happen? Not as long as there are people suing. Having new guns to buy is good. I'd like to try one in .223, but they better guarantee better accuracy than I can get from my Swift. Michael, you ripped my heart out. I love the Swift. All .224's are measured by the Swift. Not bad for a very old cartridge that has held the top for such a long time. Call me a helpless romantic, but the Swift, is where it is, because it deserves to be there. It has withstood the test of time. As far as fire forming, I usually sight it, shoot targets, and try to fire all of my cases before starting serious load work anyway. Fire forming is not a chore, it's practice. I guess we'll just have to see what we get, hope for reliable feeding. Just my 2 cts.
 
Sorry buddy. I understand that there are several die-hard 220 Swift shooters here. I know the Swift has a long and well loved history. I simply do not like the shallow shoulder of the Swift, it looks like a remnant left over from the black powder days. I can imagine brass running like water into the neck everytime I see a swift case.

My dad got burned bad by Winchester back when they cheapened their product line. He was a long time Winchester fan and recommended their product (He ran a small weekend run gunshop) to several dirt poor farmers lookin' to get a new gun for their kids. They trusted my dad and my dad trusted the Winchester 94 and Winchester produced absolute junk with the 94 for a little while. Many trusts were broken then. The Winchester junk production did not last long but I will always remember it. And yes I know that the Winchester of today is not the Winchaster that I am thinkin' of but the bitter memory runs deep.
 
I understand. I have the very same hatred for the 30-30. I don't care if it is in a bolt,pump, lever, or whatever. I shot a nice 8 pt when I was about 13. Hit it in the lungs, and it ran around the hill, and some guy from OK shot it, and put his tag on it. I hit it good, but it stayed on its feet. From that point on, I have had a long love affair with the 25-06 Rem. You could take every 30-30 in the world, and use them for tomato stakes, and it would make me happy. I know, I can hear it coming. "more deer have been killed with the 30-30" So What! I still don't like them.
 
Easy to shoot and accurate! You can't beat the 22&6mm PPC or the 22&6MM BR. Now if Remington or Winchester and some of the other ammo makers would just make factory rounds for hunting...WOW! I love my 22PPC and the only other caliber I would consider is 6mm PPC or BR. I might be tempted by the new .223 WSSM, though! Time will tell... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Nikonut
 
Hey guys,
FWIW, the WSSM's will be a trend in new rifles if the rounds can do what they say. I believe someday you will only see short and shorter action rifles as they are cheaper to make. But, this is only if they can get the rounds to perform!

I have been working on a .270 WSM in the new Coyote rifle. As far as I am concerning, you might as well be shootin a std .270. Have not got to shoot it enough yet to see what it can do. Factory stuff not too impressive but rifle still new. Fat round less mag capacity.

MJM,
Shame on you?? You hurt my Swift's feelings!! LOL!! I will agree it is a pain sometimes but what a shooter!!!! Help me out a little here Butcher??? LOL!!

Pecos,
I got a 6.5 WSM coming pretty soon. Don't know what I am gonna do with it but will see what it can do.
 
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