.243 vs .30-06/.270 on steel target
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tt35
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Originally Posted By: MongoSafariThe -06 and 270 were shooting ammunition designed to expand in living tissue; when it hits hard (mild)steel it basically blows up and spreads the impact over a larger area. As designed.
Your A-Max bullet is a match bullet, designed for accuracy on targets not tissue expansion for a humane kill. The bullet construction acts like a FMJ upon impact. Even though it is an OTM it is not a hunting hollow point its an Open Tip Match.
I get terrific damage on mild steel with 308, 168 gr BTHPM (OTM). As sniper ammo the intended/primary target is the "Cranial Injection" who cares about expansion.
It's not a magic bullet it is a match bullet. Sierra manuals state their Matchking bullets are not designed for hunting. People do use them and usually track the critter a ways, unless they interrupt the CNS, central nervous system.
The Amax is a Poly tipped bullet, not a OTM, and I've heard that it is constructed like a V-Max, so it should blow up better than most other target bullets. Not to say that you are wrong that the OTMs penetrate steel better than hunting bullets.
Your A-Max bullet is a match bullet, designed for accuracy on targets not tissue expansion for a humane kill. The bullet construction acts like a FMJ upon impact. Even though it is an OTM it is not a hunting hollow point its an Open Tip Match.
I get terrific damage on mild steel with 308, 168 gr BTHPM (OTM). As sniper ammo the intended/primary target is the "Cranial Injection" who cares about expansion.
It's not a magic bullet it is a match bullet. Sierra manuals state their Matchking bullets are not designed for hunting. People do use them and usually track the critter a ways, unless they interrupt the CNS, central nervous system.
The Amax is a Poly tipped bullet, not a OTM, and I've heard that it is constructed like a V-Max, so it should blow up better than most other target bullets. Not to say that you are wrong that the OTMs penetrate steel better than hunting bullets.
Originally Posted By: tuneredLonny,
This is for you, if you think velocity is the holy grail you are wrong, A dangerous game bullet at 2400 fps will probally go thru 3 of them sheets of steel that your 22-250 makes a little dent in. ed
tuner, I see your still spinning your wheels over this velocity thing, and despite numerous people in this thread saying velocity along with a small diameter bullet is key, you still don't grasp the concept. My suggestion would be to actually GO DO IT rather than trying to guess.
This is for you, if you think velocity is the holy grail you are wrong, A dangerous game bullet at 2400 fps will probally go thru 3 of them sheets of steel that your 22-250 makes a little dent in. ed
tuner, I see your still spinning your wheels over this velocity thing, and despite numerous people in this thread saying velocity along with a small diameter bullet is key, you still don't grasp the concept. My suggestion would be to actually GO DO IT rather than trying to guess.
Chupathingy
New member
Originally Posted By: tuneredLonny,
A dangerous game bullet at 2400 fps will probally go thru 3 of them sheets of steel ed
Because "most" dangerous game projectiles are designed to withstand extremely dense muscle tissue and heavy bone to optimize penetration. You can't have both expansion and penetration in the quantities that you desire, there is a trade off. A projectile that fails to reach a vital organ will have little effect to the animal so they opt for deeper penetration rather than expansion.
Chupa
A dangerous game bullet at 2400 fps will probally go thru 3 of them sheets of steel ed
Because "most" dangerous game projectiles are designed to withstand extremely dense muscle tissue and heavy bone to optimize penetration. You can't have both expansion and penetration in the quantities that you desire, there is a trade off. A projectile that fails to reach a vital organ will have little effect to the animal so they opt for deeper penetration rather than expansion.
Chupa
knockemdown
New member
A 75gr Vmax @ 3600fps MV has NO problem drilling holes at 400yds...
JBPrecision
New member
Here's something for you guys to think about, I've seen steel targets penetrated at 700yds by a 168VLD out of a 7mm where Partitions and Barnes bullets of the same weight starting at the same vel barely crater the steel. Just some food for thought
tunered
New member
Originally Posted By: LonnyOriginally Posted By: tuneredLonny,
This is for you, if you think velocity is the holy grail you are wrong, A dangerous game bullet at 2400 fps will probally go thru 3 of them sheets of steel that your 22-250 makes a little dent in. ed
tuner, I see your still spinning your wheels over this velocity thing, and despite numerous people in this thread saying velocity along with a small diameter bullet is key, you still don't grasp the concept. My suggestion would be to actually GO DO IT rather than trying to guess.
Im not spinning my wheels about anything, you are the one that cant be made to understand that bullet makeup is just as important as velocity, so when you learn about it you check back, You like high velocity huh? Shoot a 25gr bullet at 4000fps and see how many holes you punch in steel. Thats your explanation.. PS Just because i am new here, im not a rookie. ed
This is for you, if you think velocity is the holy grail you are wrong, A dangerous game bullet at 2400 fps will probally go thru 3 of them sheets of steel that your 22-250 makes a little dent in. ed
tuner, I see your still spinning your wheels over this velocity thing, and despite numerous people in this thread saying velocity along with a small diameter bullet is key, you still don't grasp the concept. My suggestion would be to actually GO DO IT rather than trying to guess.
Im not spinning my wheels about anything, you are the one that cant be made to understand that bullet makeup is just as important as velocity, so when you learn about it you check back, You like high velocity huh? Shoot a 25gr bullet at 4000fps and see how many holes you punch in steel. Thats your explanation.. PS Just because i am new here, im not a rookie. ed
ADCcoyote
New member
Not about velocity it is about bullet makeup. A thin jacket bullet going fast will not give you the penetration on game that one is looking for. Called bullet splash. An A max is close to a V amx light jacket bullet just made to higher specs than the V max. If you hit a coyote shoulder it wil make a mess and leave a running coyote. Been there done that.
To many varmint bullets get used on coyotes, to me a coyote isn't a varmint. I have had bullet splash with 53 grain 22 cal bullets and 80 grain 6mm bullets from3,700 fps to 3,090 fps. To get better penetration I switched to a big game bullet results are zero shoulder splash, deeper penetration and no more runner coyotes.
Laws of physics a small projectile with a thin jacket isn't going to out penetrait bone over a slower thicker jacketed bullet on bone. Just doesn't happen.
If your buddys where using a good bullet the hole size and penetration would have been much different.accu bond,partition,interbond,sst etc,etc.
To many varmint bullets get used on coyotes, to me a coyote isn't a varmint. I have had bullet splash with 53 grain 22 cal bullets and 80 grain 6mm bullets from3,700 fps to 3,090 fps. To get better penetration I switched to a big game bullet results are zero shoulder splash, deeper penetration and no more runner coyotes.
Laws of physics a small projectile with a thin jacket isn't going to out penetrait bone over a slower thicker jacketed bullet on bone. Just doesn't happen.
If your buddys where using a good bullet the hole size and penetration would have been much different.accu bond,partition,interbond,sst etc,etc.
tuner, Still struggling with the velocity and damage to steel concept I see.
Your're just gonna have to test it out rather than keep guessing. Here is something to get ya going; Take two like bullets something along the lines of Ballistic Tips or Partitions, one small caliber .224 at 3400 plus, and one larger like a /30 cal at 2800-2900 fps and shoot some high quality steel at 100-200 yards and let us know the results on which bullet damaged the steel the most.
You just might surprise yourself and learn something.
Your're just gonna have to test it out rather than keep guessing. Here is something to get ya going; Take two like bullets something along the lines of Ballistic Tips or Partitions, one small caliber .224 at 3400 plus, and one larger like a /30 cal at 2800-2900 fps and shoot some high quality steel at 100-200 yards and let us know the results on which bullet damaged the steel the most.
You just might surprise yourself and learn something.
Oil_man
New member
Originally Posted By: JBPrecisionMongo, talk to most people that actually hunt at long range and see what bullets they use. I would say a good 90% of us use match bullets. (VLD's, Matchkings, and A-maxes) With better results than any socalled hunting bullet that brags about weight retention. I've never understood why there is this huge bandwagon misconception about match bullets having poor results on game I run the 105 amax for deer and coyote, and I love them I shot a deer last year at 275yds and dropped him in his tracks.
MongoSafari
New member
Originally Posted By: JBPrecisionMongo, talk to most people that actually hunt at long range and see what bullets they use. I would say a good 90% of us use match bullets. (VLD's, Matchkings, and A-maxes) With better results than any socalled hunting bullet that brags about weight retention. I've never understood why there is this huge bandwagon misconception about match bullets having poor results on game
I do too, I'm only saying what the Sierra Load Manual says about the Matchking bullets and personal observation in my steel targets.
The 168 HPBTM is my bullet.
I do too, I'm only saying what the Sierra Load Manual says about the Matchking bullets and personal observation in my steel targets.
The 168 HPBTM is my bullet.
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homebuilt
New member
coonman heres a link to that coyote target, just print it out, cut it out and tape together.
http://coyotecanada.ca/coyote_template.pdf
http://coyotecanada.ca/coyote_template.pdf
MongoSafari
New member
This isn't as cool as a steel coyote but fun all the same.
I made this portable heavy rebar frame to suspend commercial AR500 steel plates and whatever scraps I find here and there. For simplicity I use old fire hose and bolt the targets on with nylon locking nuts. This is a 1909 Argentine Mauser rebarreled to 243 Win, Burris Tactical 4.5-14x 42 scope, shot at 150 yards. The AR500 is 12"x 3/8" and rings much better- shot at 2-3-400 yards. Little VMax bullets don't even scratch AR500 but they crater in to mild steel.
I made this portable heavy rebar frame to suspend commercial AR500 steel plates and whatever scraps I find here and there. For simplicity I use old fire hose and bolt the targets on with nylon locking nuts. This is a 1909 Argentine Mauser rebarreled to 243 Win, Burris Tactical 4.5-14x 42 scope, shot at 150 yards. The AR500 is 12"x 3/8" and rings much better- shot at 2-3-400 yards. Little VMax bullets don't even scratch AR500 but they crater in to mild steel.