25/223 AR (Upper Photos Added)

KAG

KAG

New member
I was directed over to a place and was able to get in on a group purchase for a 25cal AR barrel. I wanted mine without a flash suppressor. The below is the email the guy sent me and I am really stoked about it. I think it will knock the snot out of some coyotes and even deer, plus be simple to reload for. I just thought this would be of interest to some folks.

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Dave,

Yes, I can build an eighteen inch barrel. However, the reason that I am thinking of having all of my 16-inch (really 16.5-inches) barrels made with the gas port in the mid-length position is how smooth the action cycles with the 20-inch barrel compared to the 16-inch barrel with the gas port in the carbine position. The research that I have been doing on the gas port location indicates that the "carbine" position is really designed to give optimum dwell time for the M4's 14.5-inch barrel and that the mid-length gas port position give the optimum dwell time for a 16.5-inch barrel, and of course the rifle gas port position give the optimum dwell time for a 20-inch barrel.

If you want to offset the wind, I would suggest the 20-inch barrel, Using the Hornaday 75 gr Vmax I have been about to get about 3100 fps from a 20 inch barrel and there seems to be room to push the bullet to about 3200 fps.

As far as the barrel crown goes, I generally use a concave target crown. I also like to thread the barrels and install a flash suppresser or recoil comp., which helps to protect the crown.

I normally use Shilean barrels but I get air gauged Green Mountain barrels at a much lower cost. I also like Pac-Nor barrels.I have a three-groove barrel that I have not had a chance to finish building yet. I think that I can get an additional 50-100 fps from this barrel.
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You mean other than greater cross sectional density for the same weight bullets being fired and that a .257 75gr bullet will move just as fast if not slightly faster than a 6mm 75gr bullet fired from the same case?

But mainly I really like the quarter bores......As I will own both a 6x45 and a 25/223 I will let you how it works out because its in its infancy as a project.
 
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I'm just intrested in your theories, I would think, if you were going to these kind of lengths, you might look at the 25 DTI or 25 WSSM...

But you have a .243 WSSM in a D-Tech already don't you?
 
If I wanted to shoot 55gr bullets I would use one of my 223's. One of the main reasons for buying a 6x45 was to shoot heavier bullets and deliver more energy to target. Same principle applies to the 25/223. A 75gr 25 delivers more energy than a 6mm 75gr bullet moving at the same speed.

What the .25 caliber bullets do is when compared to the 6mm bullets there is greater bullet cross sectional area and greater bullet weight for a given sectional density.

BC is highly over rated when most shots are under 200m, Neither of these are 1000m rounds.

For those that want to push outside the box the 25/223 is going to be a fun round to develop and hunt with. I plan to do a lot of comparisons between the 6x45 I already own and the 25/223 once it arrives.
 
Originally Posted By: MPFDWhat are you going to gain with a 25 caliber bullet over a 6mm in a .223 case?

Nothing, the 6x45, and the 6.5 MPC or the 6.5 TCU (all based on 223 case) have much better ballistics than the 25-223, but some folks just have emotional attachment to certain rounds. That being said the 25-223 is a cool wildcat.
 
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Originally Posted By: MPFDI'm just intrested in your theories, I would think, if you were going to these kind of lengths, you might look at the 25 DTI or 25 WSSM...

But you have a .243 WSSM in a D-Tech already don't you?

I have a 243wssm Dtech......hate reloading for it but it is accurate and a scorcher. Lots have no issues reloading, but many many do and it is written about everywhere. I think eventually it will fade away as a round.....I know I stocked up on brass.

The 25DTI sounds like a winner and if I did not have to wait many months would seriously consider it plus I will wait and see what the verdict is on the 25DTI. I have concern about the ease of reloading and the shoulder angle. A straight necked down 25spc makes much more sense to me.
 
Originally Posted By: The WolverineOriginally Posted By: MPFDWhat are you going to gain with a 25 caliber bullet over a 6mm in a .223 case?

Nothing, the 6x45, and the 6.5 MPC or the 6.5 TCU have much better ballistics than the 25-223, but some folks just have emotional attachment to certain rounds. That being said the 25-223 is cool wildcat.

There has been quite a bit of work done by a group over at AR15 forum and the data looks sweet. One of things I like is its straight forward to reload for, very basic stuff....but you are very right....I like quarter bores
 
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Originally Posted By: KAGIf I wanted to shoot 55gr bullets I would use one of my 223's.

I agree, I don't have an upper in 5.56 any longer, so I will probably be using mine with 55 g. Noslers over dog towns to have an extra rifle to rotate in my with Savage model 12 in .204 Ruger...
 
Originally Posted By: KAGYou mean other than greater cross sectional density for the same weight bullets being fired and that a .257 75gr bullet will move just as fast if not slightly faster than a 6mm 75gr bullet fired from the same case?

Actually, the 6mm bullet has a greater sectional density then a similar weight 25 bullet. The easiest way to visualize SD is to compare a needle vs a BB. The needle has the highest SD while the round BB has the lowest SD for any given weight.

There is also no way that the same weight .257 bullet traveling at the same velocity as a 6mm bullet can deliver more energy. Kinetic energy is E=1/2MV^2. The only way to deliver more energy is to increase mass or velocity. Shape makes no difference in the equation.

Not trying to be a prick, but there are just too many myths and falsehoods out there when it comes to ballistics and physics to allow them to perpetuate unchallenged.

None of that changes the fact that this seems like it will be a cool round and firearm. You said yourself that you like the quarter bores so that is really all that matters. Let us know how it shoots when you get it and don't forget to post pictures.
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KAG, can I ask what kind of dies you found and the cost? I am a quarter bore fan myself, never did care for 6mm for some illogical reason, or 6.5 or 7mm or ....

But a 25-223 might be a good starter for the kids someday if they want to hunt deer. (One way to justify more guns!)

Also who did the barrel work for you? And cost?

Thanks,
Russ
 
Hi all,

I am the one that KAG has order his 25-223Ar from. First a little about the cartridge. The 25-223Ar is basically the same as the 25-223. The only difference is that the case is trimmed to 1.70 inches. This is done so that the case mouth does not encroach on the ogive if the bullet. All this is necessary to keep the C.O.L. to
 
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While I do not claim to to be a physics major...which I see I should use greater care in broad based statements. With that said larger diameter projectiles makes a bigger holes. I think in another post about 6x45 vs 223 this was discussed at length.

As for weight/sectional density issue I was able to track down a reference where 6mm vs 25 was mentioned. I know I am proceeding forward in my build with my belief that the 25/223 in an AR format should prove to be a very efficient predator killer. I hope to have it finished before the end of late Deer season in Jan here and plan to fill my last doe tag using it...hopefully.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/25caliber_cartridges.htm


320pf: Great to see you post over here, look forward to more info from you.
 
I called CH4D today to order dies, $78.00 and a wait. 320pf is going to send me some 100 pieces of sized brass till I get my dies in. I will just use my 6x45 seater die to seat the bullets till then. I tend to burn through cases quick and thats just a day for me of very restrained shooting during development. Hopefully I will have it built by Xmas. I need to start looking for upper parts so if anyone has good leads on good prices for decent parts please chime in. I plan to use a mid-length free float tube on this with the .750 gas block just in front of it. It was recommended that this would be best to give the round proper dwell time. 320pf also told I could get a Pac-Nor 3 grove poly bullet if I wanted and really leaning hard towards it but a Shilen is the standard with an air gauged green Mountain being the most economical route.
 
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Well the barrel is presently being chambered. I chose a 18" Shilen 1:10 that will have a midlength gas port on it. It will be crowned and I also am having the end of the barrel threaded to put a FS/brske on. It will have the M4 barrel extension on it.
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It suppose to be here NLT Xmas. I at first was going to do the build myself but now its going to be a New Frontier Armory build. They did a great job on my 6x45 and have no doubt they will finish this up in a similar fashion.
 
The begging has already began on the home front about the Need to go....she seems to think its a want, not a need,....women....or at least my woman
 
I'm interested in reading more about your upper when you get it. It should be cool!

I hope you have some or have better luck that I at obtaining any 75 grain vmax bullets. I only have about 150 left and it's been a year since I have been able to order or find any on the shelves in .25 cal.
 


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