25 wssm Range report

Guys,
Now I dont know if this is the best way to do load development or not for an AR but this is how I do it to minimize any variables.
I never use the mag and load only one at a time,I do not want my loads sitting in the chamber cooking from the heat which in my opinion changes POI in a load that you want everything the same so you are not chasing false results.
Depending on the heat and sun of the day I wait 5 minutes between shots and the bolt stays open to help bring the barrel back to the same temp as the shot previous.
After a load is found I repete the test with the mag just to make sure everything is still the same.
If you load one at a time make sure you close the bolt the same way each time. In load developement you MUST have the same practice for every round or you are wasting your time.
Just Saying.
 
Back from another range trip. Tried the 3 best 3 shot groups from yesterday.

Despite using a dummy round to keep the bolt from locking open on a loaded mag, it happened once on each group. Bottom two were great except for a single flier. Anyone want to guess which shots were from the Bolt locking back? Yep. the 2 fliers. BONK! Bottom right group has 4 shots at .578 that same Load was .568 for the 3 shot group yesturday.

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I spend some time afterward figuring out what was happening when the bolt locked back on a loaded mag. The top round was back far enough in the mag that it would occasionally push up the bolt catch. I tweaked the back of the mag slightly to move it forward just enough to clear and I will retry the better group later today. Perhaps I will single load them from the mag and remove the mag each shot to prevent any possibilty of it happening.

 
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I cant keep my mag loaded while shooting at the range. My AR will not sit in my shooting sled so i have to load each round individually. Still seem to get 1flier per group anyway. Not sure what to say on that.
 
Ricky,

I'm glad you have put up all your pics. The next try for me was going to be my sierra gamekings with 4350. I just found a half pound of it hidding in the back of my stash. This powder has worked extremely well in my brothers 25-06. I know its a whole different ball game b/c that is a bolt but you just never know.

Glad to see there is light at the end of the tunnel for you. I think I speak for everyone when I say you have been an inspiration to us all. Just for the fact that your haven't given up yet!!
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Originally Posted By: backy33Ricky,

Glad to see there is light at the end of the tunnel for you. I think I speak for everyone when I say you have been an inspiration to us all. Just for the fact that your haven't given up yet!!
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LOL I nearly titled this post "I give up"

I went out and tried another 5 shot group, when I got to the range there were 30 12 year olds taking their hunters safety shooting tests. It cause me to rush a little to get out of their way. The results were less than stellar, I hoped it was all the distraction.. (middle group on target) So I went home, waited a couple hours and drove out again. This time I took my time and got this 5 shot group. (Bottom right) It is the best 5 shot group so far but still measures 1.06. I think it's time to decide if I can live with +MOA accuracy.
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Ricky
 
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Well I've been out a few times in the last week with 80 gr ttsx on top of Big Game powder, and I think I have a consistent winner at 49 gr of B.G., and seating depth at 2.340". Last nite I put 6 into a group right at an inch, with the first 5 going well under an inch. Actually it was two 3 shot groups on top of each other, without the barrel cooling much between. The first 3 were just over 1/2".

Today I went out in the wind with the same combo, shot 2 groups at 120 yards (my range out in the country), one was 1.3", the other .7". I'm sure the flier on the bigger group was wind caused. Then I went back to 330 yards and took 3 shots at my steel coyote silhouette sitting with a bipod. Wind was a full value 15 mph, I held 16" into the wind and made a 3" 3 shot group right in the vitals. I was plenty happy with that considering the conditions! What was also surprising is that those little 80 grainers almost drilled holes thru the 3/4" of mild steel plate on my silhouette!

But, I did have one malfunction, one case failed to extract. I had the same thing happen yesterday too, the extractor jumped over the rim and left the case in the chamber. The same thing happened with my first upper, and a new extractor spring cured it, so I'll have to call Mike in the morning.
 
Any updates Ricky? I've been shooting mine off and on, and the load with Big Game and 80 gr TTSX is proving to be really consistent. So I'm going with that for the hunting season, any coyote within 400 yards is in serious trouble, and deer don't stand a chance!

I did replace the extractor spring, so far that has stopped the problem of leaving cases in the chamber. I used a wolf extra strength spring with a d-fender ring on it. The problem only seemed to happen with brass fired more than twice, so I'm thinking maybe my Redding die does not size the body of the case by the web down enough. I'm not entirely sure though.
 
Yep, small update. I took last week off from load development because of deer season. No having a load for this .25 wssm might have cost my son the biggest buck he will ever shoot in his life, but that's another story and a sad one. Both My son and daughter did fill their tags though.

Anyway back on topic.

I took 5 more rounds with the 117gr Sierra Game Kings to the range this morning. The 5 shots went into .953 the first sub MOA 5 shot group out of this upper thus far. I hand weighed brass until I found 5 that were within +/- .2 gr for these 5 rounds.

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If the weather is good I will try to duplicate or improve it tomorrow.

Post some pics of your results with the 80 grainers if you have them. If it were me I would like something closer to 100grains for deer.

 
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Ricky, you can't quit just yet. I'm in the same boat as far as getting my .25 WSSM to shoot a decent group. I've been trying for over a year to get a Barnes 100 grain TSX to shoot into a 1" group and can't seem to do it. Very frustrating. I've been wondering if it was me or the barrel.

I've never shot factory ammo through it, but I did at one time buy a box of Winchester Super-X Positive Expanding Point 120 grain factory cartridges as back-up on a deer hunt a couple years ago. I didn't know when I purchased them they were too long to fit in my magazine(Olympic Arms K8)and when I finally realized it I put them away and forgot about it.

Well, last month I put some new rounds together and for grins I pulled out that box of factory rounds and seated those 120 grain bullets further into the cases until they fit the magazine and headed for the range. I fired a few of the 100 grain TSXs and got the usual 1.5" groups. Then I fired three of those 120 grain Winchesters and surprised myself with 3 holes touching each other! I couldn't believe it so I fired three more and those too made a tiny little cloverleaf! What did that prove? Well, my barrel will definitely shoot straight and I guess I can too. It also proves I just haven't found the right combination for my barrel. Frustrating, but at least now I know there is a load that will shoot good...I just have to find it.

My most accurate load so far has been 44 grains of Varget chronographed at 3050 fps out of my 22" barrel. Zero pressure signs. I purchased QuickLoad and have been playing with it lately. Next I'm trying some VV N-550. I'm beginning to think these short, fat cases like the upper edges of pressure limits.

I've enjoyed your range reports, keep it up. Misery loves company.
 
Originally Posted By: ak4wdWell, last month I put some new rounds together and for grins I pulled out that box of factory rounds and seated those 120 grain bullets further into the cases until they fit the magazine and headed for the range. I fired a few of the 100 grain TSXs and got the usual 1.5" groups. Then I fired three of those 120 grain Winchesters and surprised myself with 3 holes touching each other! I couldn't believe it so I fired three more and those too made a tiny little cloverleaf! What did that prove? Well, my barrel will definitely shoot straight and I guess I can too. It also proves I just haven't found the right combination for my barrel. Frustrating, but at least now I know there is a load that will shoot good...I just have to find it.



When Winchester first released the .25 WSSM, I used nothing but the 120 grain factory loads for all of my development and testing. I had to seat them about .015" deeper to get them into the magazine, but they always shot sub MOA. When I was actually going to "hunt" with the .25 WSSM, I just picked Varget and a near-max load for a 100 grain Nosler partition. That load ended up shooting a group that was about .700", and I used it to take several white-tail. Not a group that I would rush to post here on PM, but it did the job.

The WSSM's are difficult to load for on a couple of different levels: 1) The big one, they are over-bore, and quite fickle because of it. The .25 is less over-bore and less fickle than the .243 WSSM, but both are challenging. 2) The thickness of the brass. This one won't effect how difficult it is to find the "magic load" but it can complicate matters!

The WSSM's definitely have the horsepower, but it's much more fun for me to sell a DTI. The bore/case capacity is just about perfect, making load development a breeze. I probably have around 2000 WSSM upper receivers out in the field by now, and where folks having trouble with load development is probably my number one question here at the shop, there are still almost 2000 customers that have succeeded.
 
Ricky, I don't have too many targets to post, but my results haven't been much better than 1 moa to this point. But, the groups are always in the same spot, and never wild and all over the place like some combo's I tried. What pleases me most though is that I can sit down with the rifle on a bipod and go under moa from 300 meters. That's what means the most to me because I shoot from that position a lot in hunting situations. I also feel like over time I will tweak that load to be even more accurate.

And I'm not worried at all about an 80 gr Barnes at 3530 fps, put it in the boiler room and the deer will die. I also had good results with 100 gr tsx, at least the 6 bullets I had made good groups. I might buy some more next year and work up a load. But to shoot Barnes bullets accurately you usually have to follow there seating depth instructions, and that means cutting your mag. I just cut out another mag last night so that I'd have a spare mag loaded while hunting.

I don't know what else to tell you, except I have a hunch that most of the inconsistency is powder related. Or even primers, I almost never use magnum primers, but I am with this round becasue Barnes loading data called for Federal 215's. And that is something I never tried till this load with the 80's.
 
K fellas. Made it out to the range today after getting my new timney installed in my 25wssm. Results are promising. I have decided to go with 100gr nosler BT and H380 powder. I started at 42.5gr and went up in increments of .2.

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Im not where i want to be from a rest but im going to go with the 43.3 gr. Its sub moa and im into the yote season. Will try again after the season is over. I can live with a couple of these to put down a deer or yote.
 
i have a dtech 25 wssm for sale ,,,great price with hard to find brass. i dont have 40 posts, but working on getting there
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Originally Posted By: moesari have a dtech 25 wssm for sale ,,,great price with hard to find brass. i dont have 40 posts, but working on getting there

What does 40 posts mean? Are you selling the upper or the entire rifle?
 
they won't let you sell anything in the classifieds until you have 40 posts. my 25 wssm comes with 600 rounds of brand new winchester brass, a value of $450.00 if you can find it
 
Ricky,
Having owned a 25WSSM in a bolt gun for years I can stilll appreciate your pain. The one thing I think you should try is to get a Hornady Lock N Load headspace kit and actually measure how much you are setting back the necks. About 4 thousandths is optimum in a gas gun. The tough brass is hard to work with but lasts a long time. I think a while ago I suggested this to you and don't think I got a reply but I will still offer the advice. I have used these and they help me get more consistent groups in the 25 Mpd 70 and my AR in 223.
I have a 25 DTI on order instead of the WSSm for the exact reasons you have found. Great round but a little finicky especially in a gas gun!
Hope this help!
Greg Harrison
 
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