25 wssm

Bluetickstyle

Bluetickstyle

New member
I'm looking to build me a AR and was looking at the 25wssm, any pros/cons on this round? And is there any factory load ammo out there? Also I read that bullet depth is particular on this round to find in the modified AR magazine?
 
Pros:
*25-06 performance in an AR platform
*Mild recoil for amount of power
*Very accurate once you find the loads it likes
*Brass is reasonably priced and of good quality (I have heard people say that Winchester wssm brass is not very good, but I found this to be untrue, at least in my experience)
*Very versitile. Will make short work of anything from varmints to animals as large as deer, hogs, bear and even elk

Cons:
*Reloading is a necessity since there is so little factory ammo available
*WSSM brass is a pain in the butt to work with until you figure out the ins and outs
*It's a finicky cartride and takes some work to find the loads it likes. Loads that it doesn't like, it really doesn't like.
*Quite a bit of muzzle blast
*WSSMs are pretty hard on barrels, although no worse than any other "hot" round
*Loading longer bullets may require some mods to the mag and possibly the feed ramp

The only factory ammo I have personally seen is 120gr and is too long to fit a standard mag.

Not sure what you are asking in your last question. Please clarify.

Mark
 
Winchester has 3-4 factory loads but you may have to seat the bullets a little deeper to run in the mags. Generally the bullets under 120 grs are seated deep enough not to be a problem in AR mags. I reload so it was no biggy for me. The brass ain't that bad to work if your not reloading the same brass over and over, just need a RCBS case mic and set shoulders of the brass back to factory or .002 under. I rarely find my brass when hunting and don't do alot of target shooting so the working of the reused brass is not an issue with me. I have been shooting mostly 1-3x fired brass with no problems. As far as barrel burners, the 25 is suppose to be one of the easiest on barrels of the WSSM's
 
Sorry was using my cell phone and it changed the word (fit) to (find). You answered it with (The only factory ammo I have personally seen is 120gr and is too long to fit a standard mag.) Thanks for all the info. I was looking for a round to take coyote huntin and also deer hunting at times any other ideas? I currently do not do any reloading, but will have to start soon I recently had a 6.5wsm built for me, but don't really have a whole bunch of free time to play aroud with loads to find the best one due to work so the 25wssm might not be for me at the moment
 
Factory 'gray box' Winchester 120gr PSP ammo fed/functioned fine in my 25Wizzer?
I shot at least 100rds of that stuff, just to get the brass from them to reload with!

They didn't group all that great, but plenty good enough to spank a deer with. But again, mag feeding was not an issue at all...
 
I saw an 85 & 115 gr Ballistic tip on Winchesters website. Best thing to do would be to measure a 115 and 120 factory round. I'm currently reloading out to 2.274" with 100 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips but have no problems with 2.278. There is a guy modifying mags IIRC to 2.300
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Don't make the mistake of believing that a 120gr bullet in the 25WSSM hits harder than a 105gr bullet in the .243 WSSM. The only benefit the .25 has, is that you can get a larger bullet in factory loads. 95gr is the largest I've seen in the .243.

Ballistics of the two show that even though the 25 is tossing a larger bullet...the .243WSSm still packs more of a punch and it has less bullet drop.

This is with IDENTICAL conditions, temp, pressure, altitude, humidity, wind and barrel length.

120 Hornady HP at 2980 (per reloading manual) shows 23" of drop, 1218 lbs of energy at 400, 171" of drop and 572 pounds of energy at 800 yds.

105 Berger VLD at 3100 shows 19" of drop, 1357 lbs of energy at 400, 133" of drop and 770 pounds of energy at 800 yds.
 
Originally Posted By: cbass16Don't make the mistake of believing that a 120gr bullet in the 25WSSM hits harder than a 105gr bullet in the .243 WSSM. The only benefit the .25 has, is that you can get a larger bullet in factory loads. 95gr is the largest I've seen in the .243.

Ballistics of the two show that even though the 25 is tossing a larger bullet...the .243WSSm still packs more of a punch and it has less bullet drop.

This is with IDENTICAL conditions, temp, pressure, altitude, humidity, wind and barrel length.

120 Hornady HP at 2980 (per reloading manual) shows 23" of drop, 1218 lbs of energy at 400, 171" of drop and 572 pounds of energy at 800 yds.

105 Berger VLD at 3100 shows 19" of drop, 1357 lbs of energy at 400, 133" of drop and 770 pounds of energy at 800 yds.


Ummm.....OK. Not sure why the comparison. Makes as much sense as comparing a 243 to a 25-06. Everyone knows there's better target bullets in 6mm that carry better. But it does not make it a better game round, bc NEITHER is an 800 yard big game round. Not even close. I'd question your choice of bullets, but I guess you could have used the 117 Hdy RN for the comparison, lol.

Saying this in good humor, don't get bent out of shape,
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I mentioned the 120 and used it in the comparison because that weight range was mentioned as a factory option for the 25WSSM.

If the OP is looking for a coyote and deer round, there is no doubt they will both work just fine, but it is undeniable that the .243 will out perform the .25. That is a fact and a debate on the matter would only be riddled with opinion.
The mention of a VLD Berger was not to compare target vs hunting bullet, the VLD IS A HUNTING BULLET. If there is a problem with that, I'll re-do the ballistics with the 105 Amax instead. Or any other bullets for that matter.
People assume that a larger bullet will hit harder or buck the wind better and this simply isn't true. THATS why I offered insight into the comparison. Not to say one should be used instead, just informing people that may not know.

As I've said before, they will both kill deer, they will both kill coyotes, but the .243 will simply do it faurther, flatter with less wind drift and deliver more energy in the process.

Yes the Bergers are definitely worth using in the WSSM's, especially for big game, as long as you plan ahead and get a barrel with adequate twist. You MAY need a modified mag in order to get proper OAL for accuracy, but that would be a weak excuse to avoid them.
I currently use 95 VLDs but only because I don't have the proper twist for 105VLDs
 
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Only con is the brass. I don't like factory ammo, It is loaded by lawyers. I have not shot a factory round in about 6 years in any of my firearms! Not sure the road your taking but if you go through Dtech, get it compensated. The 25 WSSM is a hammer! Very Very accurate I have been having one since 2005 and love it.

Mike
 
You shoot your vld's in the 25 or 243? Or both? Ill have a 1-10 twist and have been looking at the velds. Not planning on shooting many deer so maybe I wont need them if I'm just killin' yotes?
 
With a 1:10 twist, the 87 Vlds are ideal. They were made specifically because most factory .243 barrels are 1:10.

In my opinion, 87gr is the top end of the mid-range bullet weight for the caliber but the design and the velocity will handle big game at 500 yds NO PROBLEM.
I've shot 6 dogs so far (i think) with 95vlds and have only had one that left a messy hole and it was a shoulder blade impact.
After taking deer and antelope both at 400+ with a light load and a 75gr bullet. I would have no hesitation taking a kill shot at 500yds with 87s or 600yds with 95s as long as my skills as a shooter can make the shot.
 
At the KC Cabelas this afternoon they had 4 factory 25 wssm rounds, 120 pep, 85 bt, 115 bt, and 110 accubond. So there are some options. Not sure but I don't think Bergers nor 105 amax are available in any 243 wssm. But if you're comparing factory ammo on the one end it would only be fair to do it for both. And you also better let them know that a factory 243 wssm with a 1-10 twist will not handle the 105's.

Like I said, everyone knows 6mm has more high bc bullets than 25, heck I use a lot of 105 amax's in a bolt 243. It will hit small targets at ridiculous ranges, and bucks the wind like crazy, it's what I use in pdog towns on windy days. But there's no way I'm taking a poke at a game animal at 800 yards with it, not enuf gun. Nor would I with the 25wssm or 25-06.

I don't think there is a need to compare, they are both great rounds. And I don't get royalties from either one, so I don't care. Like I've said before, if I wanted a long range target ar, the 243 wssm would get serious consideration bc of bullet selection. I like Mbmkk's (sp) idea with the 1-8 twist shooting the heavies. But to say the 243 kills further than an equal capacity 25, well, experience with the old school equivalents (243 win vs 25-06) tells me a different story.
 
I just checked Midway and that's all they showed for Berger vld's. 115's in both target and hunting versions.
 
You're right about factory 105 loads. You just won't find them...But I wasn't using factory 120 numbers either. I said in a previous thread that with factory ammo, I would choose the 25WSSM for big game.

When it comes to an AR, there is no sense talking about a factory twist barrel because those options just don't matter, you can get whatever twist barrel you want for very close to the same $$ as a factory rifle.
If you're buying a bolt gun off the shelf, you just dont get those kind of option without spending extra, you get what they make.
If you're buying an AR, you can have it built with whatever barrel you want.

mbkmkk is right, the 1:8 twist is the way to go, I wish I knew then what I know now.

I also don't feel that either one is suited for big game at 800 yds, but I would not hesitate to send a pill at a coyote that far. The 3 feet difference in drop at that range and the increased energy delivery is still there, even if you don't want to shoot that far.
 
Originally Posted By: backy33The smallest bullet you can shoot in a 25wssm for VLD's is a 115grn bullet correct?

Try to get out of the mindset that you need an ultra sleek, VLD bullet to shoot a bit of distance!

It's simply not true and especially so for fun target shooting. I don't dwell so much on 'downrange' energies (ft. lbs. values) anymore, since I've learned that those values are really just NUMBERS, not the end all, be all of the equation. Speak to shooters who've shot ALOT of different cartridges & bullets, and you'll find that to indeed be the case (pun intended)...

The key to shooting well at distance is to practice good form and to SHOOT AT DISTANCE! NO need to chase your tail in search of the 'ultimate b.c. load', according to a computer program. That info is all just DATA that needs to be proven in real life. Not dis-counting ballistic programs (I use one often), but I realize that there's more to shooting well then getting a dope & dialing it...

I've shot several (8 hundred-ish) 75gr Vmaxs through my ol' 25Wizzer, and they'll do just fine for ya for varmint & fun plinking. Nope, they ain't the sleekest, highest b.c.-est, VLD-zee-est, sexy-est, most cool-est bullet on the market, but they fly when ya put powder behind 'em!
Just sayin', maybe step away from the internet semantics of hypothetical comparisons & get out SHOOTING to see for yourself?

this video is from a couple/3 years back. Had about 150rds through the Wizzer already that weekend, so I moved the target back a little further to keep playin'...
(turn up your volume to listen for the impacts on steel, 'cause the target is almost a 1/2mile away
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VIDEO LINKY

And yes, I did suprise myself a bit with the wind call on the 1st shot!
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My point here is just for the sake of conversation. I'm not a particularly 'good shot', so the vid isn't to brag. Rather to show that having a high b.c. bullet is not the 'end all, be all' to having fun & hitting your target...

I'm sure alotta dudes know that there comes a time (distance) where YOU, the SHOOTER is the most vital piece of the puzzle! High b.c. bullets do indeed decrease the margin of error on wind calls, but they definitely ain't MAGIC...
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So find a bullet/load that shoots well and SHOOT IT! Don't burden yourself with trying to find the pot of ballistic gold at the end of the internet rainbow...

have fun & good shootin' to ya!
 
cbass16 said:
Don't make the mistake of believing that a 120gr bullet in the 25WSSM hits harder than a 105gr bullet in the .243 WSSM. The only benefit the .25 has, is that you can get a larger bullet in factory loads. 95gr is the largest I've seen in the .243.

Ballistics of the two show that even though the 25 is tossing a larger bullet...the .243WSSm still packs more of a punch and it has less bullet drop.


This does not Jive with what I can find for data, now I'm curious. PM sent.
Click to expand...
 
So I need to go with a 1:8 twist ratio on my barrel for the 25? I will be using one of the factory rounds mentioned above, until I get my reloading gear and get practiced up in the art, also what size barrel length do yall recommend thanks for all the info
 
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