3X9 and accuracy

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O.K. CatShooter I see where this is really going! First of all I never called you a f-ing liar,



Your memory is amazingly short...

"Hey CatShooter, Liar, Liar pants on fire! Now I will brace myself for what is about come! Now bring it on big boy!! "

You never complemented me on anything... you just tried to hide behind more BS.

I gave you the contact info to confirm that I shot that disk at 405 yds.

Go back under your rock.


.
 
Ahh, another one without a sense of humor. O.K. I will admit I may have come off a little "arrogant" at first, but I seriously was taking it all as a joke. Anyway, I am done venting now so I will drop it! Have a good week!
 
here is three shots I put on paper at 250 yds.

CZ 527 223 american
burris 3x9
250yds.jpg

9 power works pretty good for me out to about 300 yds, thats when I want a bit more.
 
Has anyone ever noticed that when a post gets highjacked or goes bad the same guys are always involved????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Mike
 
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The ability to shoot small groups has more to do with the ability to put the hairs in the same spot each time.

I agree. It's easier for my old eyes to get the cross hairs in the same spot if I use a fine cross hair, smaller point of aim, and a little higher magnification.

Still, I have shot some really good groups with scopes raning in power from 6x to 9x.
 
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I think magnification does help on certain types of targets. What i usually do if i am shooting a lower power scope is pick a bigger target that enables me to align the reticle better. There are plenty of targets available that you really dont have to focus on where the crosshairs meet but just align the crosshairs with the target. I have shoot some super groups with low power scopes this way. On the other hand, if i am shooting a 24X with a fine wire i will just use 1/4" stick on dots for targets.



I've found that the 3-9's with thicker crosshairs will be more difficult in target shooting out past 250 but are still quite deadly when deer hunting.

The plus side to all of this is the light gathering capability of that lower 3x setting combined with sharp optics.....especially if you are hunting timbers or swamp.
 
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Has anyone ever noticed that when a post gets highjacked or goes bad the same guys are always involved????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Mike



You ever notice that whenever a thread goes south there is always somebody commenting on it with out bringing anything to the table themselves or doing anything to correct it.


Wait - That would be me too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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Jack stated hunter benchrest is limited to 6x power. He is correct. But they don't shoot group in HBR, its purely a score game. Hitting the tiny bullseye at 100-200-300 yards. We have some of the best HBR here in my neck of the woods. It's too close of distance for me to shoot, though. (Boring)

I shoot out to 1000 yards, and some say 25x is barely enough for our game. Don't seem to bother my groups.
 
It is for score because you don't need the moving backers you have to have for group shooting. Moving backers tend to raise the price of competition a lot.

Most 1000 yard competition is shot with iron sights. Only BR and F class allow optics. There are no optics or rests of any kind allowed in most 1000 yard competitions, a sling only.

Jack
 
Yes, we also have Palma- which is iron sights & sling. Alot of the Palma shooters around here also have an Any/Any rifle- which they shoot with optics and slings, any caliber. Tough no matter which way you look at it. But they have bigger targets too.
 
A lot depends on the clarity of the optics, the width of the cross hairs, and the type of target used, as well as your own shooting technique. One thing for certain, a 24 power scope will tell you if you are wobbling a little better than a 3X9.

I find some targets easier to establish a consistent hold, regardless of the magnification or the width of the cross hairs.

But, if the aiming point is indistinct, or on the small side, cross hairs which subtend a wider area can pose a problem.

I like my Leupold 6.5X20 VariX III, EFR, because I can see and aim at a .22 caliber bullet hole at 100 yards. That quickly tells me if I am off a bit. However, my 3X9 VariX II cross hairs will cover quite a bit of area, and makes wobbling off a 1/4" one way or another, without seeing it, very easy.

If you shoot a 3/4" group at 100 yards with a 3X9 scope, can you be certain it's the gun, load, atmospheric conditions ...... or the scope magnification. There's a good reason target shooters normally use high magnification scopes and it's not because they can't afford to buy a spotting scope.
 
Back to the original question. If all you shoot is a 3-9 and you shoot it a lot, then most likely you can shoot decent if not good groups on a regular basis.

I liken this to the guy who brings his Rem 870 pump to a trap shoot. The gun is well worn and it's the only one he has ever owned. The 870 guy easily keeps up with the Perazzi and Beretta trap shooters because nobody ever told him that his 870 that's he's been shooting since he was 16 can't hit a trap target. This same guy prolly has a Rem 30.06 BDL with a Leupy 3-9 that he kills game out to 250 yards.

When I play at BR shooting with my Weaver T-36 scoped XR and then switch to one of my 3-9X guns, I don't expect to shoot bugholes. MOY (minute of yote)is what I'm after and more often than not, I get MOA averages.
 
One thing on this though is what are the accuracy demands once the scope gets changed? On my calling rifle I keep a 2x7 power scope on it but I also don't sit at the bench requiring that I shoot the smallest groups possible. I realize that with that scope I cannot see well enough to be the most consistant that I can be but the rifle is not set up for BR shooting it is set up for coyote shooting (and sometimes coyote hitting). If I was worried about that it would have a high power scope to assist. If the 3x9 is being used because of hunting then while you may give up a little in the BR accuracy but gain in the hunting accuracy with a better FOV and target acquisition. While a coyote may not have that big of a kill zone it is certainly a lot bigger than a little orange dot.
 
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Pinecone,
I cant shoot at orange dots either, but I do well on black squares, when I shoot low power scopes, where I can line up my crosshairs.
I shot this 3 shot group the other day while sighting in my AR, the scope is a 1.5x5 Burris. I dont normally save 3 shot groups, but I was happy with this one, a quarter inch at 100 yards with a 5X scope. I probably wouldnt be able to do that again.....

IMG_0782.jpg


IMG_0081.jpg




Lungbuster (gotta love that name by the way), great post! I think your picture at the top shows one of the secrets to great shooting with any magnification (especially lower magnification) and that is the square box a few inches away from that outstanding group. In my opinion, the square box is easier for my eye to make "four little even proportioned boxes" when I center the crosshairs compared to a circle. I believe I first learned of this method from Jim Carmichael. That group that you shot is great evidence that the target itself has ALOT to do with the groups we can obtain, no matter how accurate the rifle. One more point and I believe this is an important that I haven't seen in this thread so far AND is shown in your pic. When shooting for groups, it is important to keep the point of impact away from the aiming point lest the aiming point be obliterated. That's exactly what your target shows and I'm sure most of the readers of this thread know it too but just talking to some members of my family on the subject, I found that there are some shooters will still make the aimpoint their point of impact even while shooting for groups. Anyway, thanks for a great post and one that shows not only what CAN be done with a low mag scope but also HOW just using the right kind of target in the right way can be a real help (in getting those small groups). --- Mike
 
If the question is: "are your groups as good"? My answer is: not in my personal experience. Going from a 6-18 on my .25-06 down to a 3-9... I feel my groups suffered. Though, they were still very nice... thanks to a very accurate rifle.

If the question is: "can you still accurately hit 'stuff'"? My answer is: pretty much. I'm much more concerned with hitting what I want to hit... than I am with group size.

If I can keep all my shots in a 3" Shoot-N-See at 200 yards, then I'm good to go... regardless of scope power. After a quick 100 yard sight-in, these groups were fired at 200 yards out of my HCR .25-06 a couple weekends ago. I installed a Burris 3-9x40 to see how I liked it... the rifle (and I) shot pretty well... though I think the scope will be headed down the road shortly.

groups2506.jpg


My opinion on the matter is a 3-9 doesn't really impead my personal ability to hit critters (or targets, gongs, rocks, etc.) out to sane ranges... but I prefer a bit more magnification for establishment of a rifle's accuracy capability.
 

Thank for a very informative reply. You use a higher powered scope to tell a rifle's capabilities and to me that makes good sense. Seems to me the only real way of determining whether or not the rifle/ammo needed tweaking. Btw, thanks for posting those outstanding groups!
 
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Thank for a very informative reply. You use a higher powered scope to tell a rifle's capabilities and to me that makes good sense. Seems to me the only real way of determining whether or not the rifle/ammo needed tweaking. Btw, thanks for posting those outstanding groups!


Yup. The higher powered scopes do have an effect on group sizes in the long run and for specific situations.

Remember Mel Gibson's character's famous quote in the movie, "The Patriot" where he told his sons going into an ambush "aim small, miss small". Pick out an imaginary (if need be) or small place within the bullseye or vitals of the game and go into your shooting sequence.

If you can learn that technique you can make do with any power of scope on the field to an extent. However, there is a reason for those 25x scopes being called "varmint scopes"....because you can aim small at long ranges.
 
I just can't imagine anything over 9X being much of a help at 100 yards. Sure it helps at 300 yards a a brown PD playin in a dirt pile but at 100 yards? Thats not that far.

I use a "brand to remain nameless" 4x16 on my Savage and do groups any where between 3/8" and 5/8" at 100 yards with it set on 10X. If I try to crank it up above that at 100 yards things get fuzzy. 16X works great for bedded fox out to 300 yards though.

100 yards is CLOSE.

CB
 
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