.45-70 Loads w/ Varget, Need Help!

MarkA

MarkA

New member
I have a Marlin 1895 Classic in .45-70. Got lots of Varget and both Hornaday 300 gr JRN and Sierra 350 HP's. What's the best load for one or both?
 
Varg is not very good for the 45-70 as the starting load for the 300 HP is 60.0 grs. There as several other powders with as much as 20grs of powder per round of savings. My Sierra book only shows the 300gr HP. Nothing on the 350.
 
agreed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif lots of unburnt powder with varget, was my experiene.

2400 is good stuff for the 45-70

45-70 powder charges have a wide range. loads for 1200fps to 2000fps.

you have lots of reloading in your future /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Mark,
I worked with Varget in the .45-70 some. I also shoot a Marlin lever and worked up loads for the 350 grain Hornady and the 405 grain Remington. While the accuracy was excellent, I hit the wall pressure wise far too soon for my purposes. I wanted to push the 350 grainer to around 2,000 fps and the 405 gr. to 1,800. I couldn't get within 150 fps of those marks. I settled on H4198 and could easily reach those velocities and more if I wanted too. Accuracy was as good with the H4198 and pressure was much less.
 
Thanks Guys Review of the 2006 Hodgdon Annual Manual shows a MUCH wider range of loads for H4198, looks like that's where I'll start!
 
I know this is hi-jacking a little, but there is a target load using cast bullets and pistol powder that makes these really tame shooters for plinking. Using cast bullets with only 11 grains of powder also makes it really inexpensive too.

I've personally only used titegroup with 300 grain cast for plinking using pistol powder.

Link:
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

They show other calibers too.
 
Quote:
I have a Marlin 1895 Classic in .45-70. Got lots of Varget and both Hornaday 300 gr JRN and Sierra 350 HP's.



Like some of the others said, the 405 rem is a good bullet in the 45-70 and the 400 speer is probably pretty good too although I've never loaded it.

Here are the results i got with the 405


Shot 1: 1582 Energy: 2257
Shot 2: 1564 TKO: 41.88
Shot 3: 1564
Shot 4: 1665
Shot 5: 1529
Shot 6: 1607
Shot 7: 1601
Shot 8: 1601
Shot 9: 1542
Shot 10:

Average Vel: 1584
Std Deviation: 40.71

This was with 52.4 grains of Varget. 50 grains was not very accurate and I think a bit more than 52 would be even more accurate. The load above shot about 3 moa with iron sights form a Navy arms '85 hi wall.
 
Utahdogger,
Curious that two of the most common powders in use aren't listed by you, H4198/IMR-4198 & IMR-3031. Those two by far get the lions share of warmer loadings in the old Indian fighter.
 
Man this is GREAT! I loaded 25 last night using Hornady 300 gr HP w/ H4198 and used the Lee FCD for the final crimp with a COL of 2.550. Loaded from 58.4 to 60.0 grains in 0.40 grain increments in groups of 5 to test for accuracy. Sure like how the H4198 fills the case.

Utahdogger: Would you PLEASE keep us informed as to how ya like the Varget! I would a tried some but my Hodgdon Annual Manual for 2006 does not list it for 300 gr bullets, only heavier.
 
I guess I am the exception here. I like Varget in the 45/70. Below is a target shot off a bench in good conditions. No, I won't insult you guys saying it will do it everytime. It will hold between 3/4-1" without a doubt. My brother shoots it now and uses the same load. Another bud shoots the same load in a Guide Gun model with the same results. This load is STOUT but saw no pressure signs besides the bruise on my shoulder (from shooting so much that day). I also shot 4198 with good results. Try what you already have and BE SAFE!!!

Keith

45-70TargetSmall.jpg
 
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I saw another fella on beartoothbullets shoot 350 hornadys into groups like that with 58 grains of varget. I think 60 is the max for 350 grainers in a marlin, but you should verify that in a hodgdon manual. Check out marlinowners.com and beartoothbullets.com search for varget under the big bore forums.
 
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I am using the Hodgdon Annual Manual for data on these loads, and after reading Partagas post and checking BearTooth I am seeing 50 gr of H4198 used and I have loaded to a max of 60 gr of H4198 per Hodgdon. Does anyone have any data to confirm or reject this load?

Does anyone have a max load of Varget for 300 gr?
 
This might help. This is from QuickLOAD. If you can't read it here it looks better in an email. If you need adifferent bullet or barrel length, etc. let me know.

Keith


Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. SAAMI
Bullet : .458, 300, HDY HP 4500
Cartridge O.A.L. L6 : 2.550 inch or 64.77 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt Btime
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 49.61 1717 1964 19947 3133 69.9 1.638
-18.0 85 50.85 1760 2062 21188 3257 71.3 1.596
-16.0 87 52.09 1802 2164 22511 3382 72.7 1.556
-14.0 89 53.33 1846 2269 23923 3507 74.1 1.516 ! HOT LOAD !
-12.0 92 54.57 1889 2378 25429 3631 75.4 1.478 ! HOT LOAD !
-10.0 94 55.81 1933 2490 27041 3756 76.7 1.440 ! HOT LOAD !
-08.0 96 57.05 1978 2606 28765 3879 78.1 1.403 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-06.0 98 58.29 2023 2725 30609 4001 79.3 1.367 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 100 59.53 2068 2848 32584 4122 80.6 1.332 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 102 60.77 2113 2975 34705 4241 81.9 1.298 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 104 62.01 2159 3106 36981 4359 83.1 1.263 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 106 63.25 2206 3240 39431 4474 84.3 1.228 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 64.49 2252 3379 42069 4586 85.5 1.195 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 110 65.73 2299 3521 44915 4696 86.6 1.162 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 112 66.97 2347 3668 47989 4802 87.7 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 114 68.21 2394 3819 51317 4904 88.8 1.100 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 62.01 2301 3527 43851 4658 90.8 1.169 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 62.01 1996 2655 30767 3915 73.3 1.373 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
 
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very interesting. Lemme get out the brain tool and pick alittle.
I'm down in mass. visiting till monday. On my way home I'll be stopping at the kittery trading post, Which is in my home state, Maine.
I'll be buying a Magnum Research revolver in 45-70, 7 1/2 inch barrel, A lee handloading kit, bullets, primers, powder and cases. Oh...this is gonna be fun!

What differences should I take into account for barrel length. I looked at the hodgdons manual before I came down here and I decided on the h-4198 powder which looks to be the most versitile thru the chart. Reading this thread, I'll probably go with the 405 grain bullet also. I need a good Bear, Deer, Moose and squirrle load.
 
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