.45 vs 10mm

W

wis_sharpshooter

New member
I need some advice on a problem I have. I have a kimber 45acp and really like the gun, but I saw a glock 10mm the other day at a really good price, and I have always wanted a 10mm. My problem is I don't need both guns. I use the .45 to carry around the woods and bow hunting. I go out west quite often and I feel the .45 is a bit to small to carry out there. Any advice would be great.
 
Stuff I'm sure you already know...

10mm is faster, more range, more kinetic energy, sometime making better bullet performance. It's also harder to find if you buy your ammo, and has been prone to be inaccurate and particular when feeding (depends on the individual gun and load.) Glock should be strong on both counts.

Personally, I'd WAY rather carry a Glock in a 10mm than a Kimber 1911 in 45acp as a hunting backup. Like a thousand times over. Weight on the hip or in the armpit, weapon reliability in any field condition, and bullet performance when needed - - possibly over 30, 40, 50 yards... No contest.

But I'd rather OWN a Kimber than a Glock! Glock is a Workhorse, Kimber is a Royal!
 
It's a trade off, really...

The .45 is well suited for personal defense against 2 legged varmints. It has low recoil, & ammo is generally easy to find & relatively inexpensive.
You can get off quick follow-up shots with a .45...

The 10MM is WAY more high powered & has lots more recoil than the .45.
It's better with something that is trying to eat you than the .45, but ammo can be harder to find, & more expensive.
Follow-up shots limited to how quick you get the gun back down from the recoil.
 
I have several Kimbers in .45acp and a Glock M20 in 10mm. I like to carry the 10mm for field work and when I am doing work supporting the jewelry industry (courier escort missions).

The 10mm has superior ballistics for dealing with bad guys in body armor and vehicles. I also carry a Gramms Engineering magazine extention to give me 20 rounds in my first magazine.

For field work, the 10mm is very durable in all elements. The smooth slide prevents the gun from getting caught on jackets or other field equipment (the .45 should be carried "cocked and locked" or "Condition 2" and can get caught on jacket lining).

Ammunition for the 10mm is not as hard to find as many think. A little internet study or telephone work will pay off instead of just driving around to find an ammunition source.

The price of ammunition that is likely going to be used to save your life is not really a concideration, is it?

You can get CCI Blaser ammo (Al cases) at a very reasonable price for practice (200 grain flat point fmj).

The Glock 10mm is less expensive than the Kimber. The only modifications I make on the stock Glock are Trijicon tritium night sights and a stock Glock 3.5 pound disconnector (to provide a 5.5 pound trigger pull).

I use Kydex-type holsters and magazine carriers so my whole rig is completely weather proof.

Recoil control with the Kimber is way easy and shots can be made very quickly. Shot to shot times can be made reliably in the 0.10-0.14 second range on a regular basis (as measured by an electornic shot timer).

Recoil control of the Glock 10mm Model 20 is simple as well. With a proper hold of the pistol, the gun will not remain above the "target" for an extended ammount of time. The width of the frame and the flexibility of the Glock frame distributes the recoil impulse over a broad area of the shooting hand and is not the least bit unpleasant. The thing that limits the speed of shooting shot to shot with the Glock is the longer trigger travel, as compared with the 1911-type pistol. My shot to shot times are around 0.18-0.22 seconds with the Glock 10mm (of course others can shoot much faster than me).

By the way, shooting a full power 10mm in a 1911-type pistol is not very pleasant with the relatively thin frame that is in contact with the web of the hand.

In addition, hits on a standard IPSC/IDPA target are a cinch at beyond 100 yards, with the Glock M20 10mm.

I hope my limited experience shared herein is somewhat helpful.

Cheers,

Karl
 
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Karl,

I had shot only the Delta in 10MM, so it was interesting to see how the recoild distributes from the glock. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Karl is very correct.I have had the glock 20 for many years and would bet my life on it.It is not hard to shoot and the ammo is not that hard to find.I have owned Kimber, Sigs and several others in the past and the Glock is the one you can truely trust.The thing about owning several pistols other than a Glock is the factory trigger pull. I have always said if you don't shoot real often with all your different pistols, then only shoot a Glock.The triggers are so very different.Good luck on your decision!
 
rockinbbar,

If you can find someone with an electronic shot timer (or obtain one for yourself) and time your shot to shot with various handguns, you will discover some interesting things. That, with the ease or difficulty of controling the pistol, and ease of shooting accuately, will give you a better sense of assessing whether you can use the gun for whatever purpose you are seeking to fill.

By the way, I have also fired the Delta Colt in 10mm and found that it is a handful to shoot quickly and accurately.

Be well,

Karl
 
I used one quite a bit in CAS...

In fact, I could fire my single action .45 faster than my 1911.
Accurately.

Avg. was 5 shot in about 2.3 seconds with no misses.
I forget what the 1911 timing was, but it was considerably slower.

With the timer, I found the Marlin rifle to be fastest levergun with 8 shots in 4.2 seconds, no misses.

It's very interesting what facts the timer can bring to light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Ok heres the other half of my problem, I also have a SW .44mag that I like to carry around to, so would I really need the 10mm with a .44 already in the safe. Don't get me wrong you can never have to many guns, but when I have 2 guns that do the same thing one tends to just sit around and collect dust if you know what I mean. Oh an I do reload so the cost of ammo isn't that big of a deal.
 
I own and have carried of of my two Glock 21's for over fifteen years just about every day they are a great CCW gun but saying that when out in the Boonies the Glocks stay home and one of the ruger 44 Mags comes along. The ten is a great chambering for steel targets and bowling pins it is a bit much for self defense though, and I have no experiance with it on any sort of game. The 45 ACP no matter what the load is not sufficient to reliably p[ut down an animal. I have shot a few feral pigs and dogs with it and they always take several rounds to go down permanant no so with the 44 Mag 240 Grn HP My handloads are only pushing 1200 FPS biut will still drop a 200 Lb Hog in it's tracks at twenty feet. They are not that hard to shoot either.
 
I have both a Glock model 35 in 40 cal with all the upgrades. I also have a Kimber 45 ACP Stainless Gold Match.

The issue with the Glocks is the trigger. It is much easier to master the 1911 Kimber trigger than a 2 1/2 lb Glock trigger.

In as far as pure accuracy, the Kimber has it over the Glock hands down. My kimber shoots 1 1/2" at 25 yards with a number of loads including +P loads that I load with the 185g Speer Gold dot, and the 200g Speer HP.

I killed several coyotes with the Kimber when I lived in Az and a Javelina...that was fun!

10mm Glock is a hand full.

I'd rather eat a rat than get rid of my Kimber because it is such a deadly weapon. 50 yard shots are not an issue with the Kimber, the glock is another story. No doubt that the glock is a great self defense weapon, but the Kimber is good for shooting small game with, and I would never put my Gock in that position because I like "one shot, one kill".

If a guy wants a 10mm, I suggest that he go to www.gunbroker.com and get a Smith and Wesson, which is one heck of an accurate pistol.

As you contemplate making a decision, are you wanting a pistol for small game or self defense shooting humans, because the requirements are very different for the two of them.
 
I have five 10mms (2 Glocks, 1 Kimber, 1 Para-Ord, and an old Thompson Auto Ordnance) and one .45acp (Colt)....That's my answer as to preference...

I reload a lot for the 10mms and don't for the .45acp as I don't shoot it that much other than IDPA matches once in a while.

The 10mm is my "go to" pistol if I ever have a feeling that I need to be armed while out in a strange area (Usually my Glock 29).

Factory ammo is not that hard to find and since I reload, I don't shoot that much of it other than for the purpose of on hand rotation..
 
I have both 45 kimber and 10mm Glock. Both are great guns the Kimber is drop dead accurate and the Glock is accurate enough and drop dead reliable. Both come from the holster well and my first shot is nearly the same with both. The Glock has a slight edge on the first shot but in a 5 shot string the Kimber is the winner. But when I hit the hills here in Wyoming with grizzly bears a possibility I carry bear spray and my S&W Mountain Gun .44 mag. Its light and packs a punch. If I was going looking for bear trouble I would pack my .338 RUM. For the possibility of trouble the .44 mag is my choice. For human trouble the .45 or 10mm either will work.
 
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Ok heres the other half of my problem, I also have a SW .44mag that I like to carry around to, so would I really need the 10mm with a .44 already in the safe. Don't get me wrong you can never have to many guns, but when I have 2 guns that do the same thing one tends to just sit around and collect dust if you know what I mean. Oh an I do reload so the cost of ammo isn't that big of a deal.



If you have a .44 Magnum you dont need the 10mm unless your interested in it for just fun shooting. I got the impression from your original post that you wanted it for protection against 4 legged critters out west.

My question for you would be, what kind of 4 legged predators? Are you venturing into Grizzly country? If you want something to take on a Mountain Lion, Wolf, Coyote or other light skinned, light boned animal, the 10mm is good to go. For defense against 2 legged predators, the 10mm is good to go. Not only good to go but an excellant choice. If you are worried about Black Bear or God forbid, Grizzlies, the 10mm is a very bad choice. I dont care how well you shoot it or how fast you can accurately make solid hits. Unless you are lucky, the 10mm will not get it done on a bear. Density of fur, hide thickness and massive fat layers will stop many bullets long before they reach any vital organs. Its not wise to bet on head shots on a charging bear and taking into account the thickness of a Griz skull I would not bet my next paycheck on the success of those hits.

Do yourself a favor and stick with your .44 Magnum with 240 hard cast bullets and you have a weapon that can possibly anchor North Americas largest predators. Use anything less and its a crap shoot. Trust me when I say that if a Griz decides to charge, you will be lucky to draw and get one or two shots off. They can easily beat a quarterhorse in a 50 yard sprint. Volume means squat when you have to make one or two really count.
 
I agree, the .44 Mag is the way to go if you are in bear country. Deep penetrating bullets, too.

If no bears, the 10mm is good to go.

My thoughts again,

Karl in Phoenix
 
I own both. A Springfield 1911 LW compact and a Glock 20 10mm. I will never get rid of either of the 2. Both serve very different rolls. The Springfield is my CCW. Light weight, .45 is a proven 1 shot stopper, single stack 7rnd mags make for a lighter, slimmer profile. The Glock 20 is my "in the woods" cary piece. Durable K coat is sweat resistant and deep woods off won't hurt the finish. 10mm corbon rounds give me .357 trajectory with .41mag kenetic energy. I have both 15 and 10round mags. There are not alot of part to go wrong on the Glock. My Springfiels is like a good watch. If the timeing gets off on 1 part it's worthless.
 
Not trying to start a fight AR-Okie. The 10mm can match .41 mag kinetic energy if you compare the 10mm 180 grain BCSP Corbon hunter to the .41 mag 180 grain DPX. Thats all well and good but the DPX is not designed for heavy skinned or heavy boned animals. Its more suited for two leg predators. Besides, 676 ft lbs of kinetic energy still wont work for him for bear sized critters. Its just not enough. You have got to push that 1000 ft lb mark and 1100 plus is better. The .44 mag will do that with ease. Besides, most guys that carry a .41 mag opt for the 200 plus grain hard cast bullets which do push the 1000 lb mark.

10mm is a good round for certain applications but its hard to argue with the ability of the .44 mag with factory ammo. Roll your own and it gets even better especially with hard casts. I do understand that Oklahoma is not full of critters that have the ability to eat you, so the 10mm fits your bill nicely but wis-sharpshooter did ask it it would be a good carry piece out west. The answer is no, no matter what you load it with, especially where the big bears roam.

http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/hunter.htm
 
I have and use several 9mm Glocks but don't like the feel of the "Big Glocks". Kinda feels like I'm gripping a brick.

If you like the 1911 style of pistol and want a 10mm, look at the Dan Wesson line of 1911s. I have the DW Bobtail Commander and really like it. 10mm power in a 4" 1911 and the Bobtail feature is hard to describe. The rounded MSH makes for a very comfortable grip and doesn't dig into your ribs. They also offer the full size 10mm 1911.
Double Tap Ammunition offers an extensive line of 10mm ammo
from practice rounds to personal defense and hunting if you don't reload.
 
Thanks for the input guys, I think I'm goin stick to the .44 for the carry gun out west, and for walking around wisconsin I think the .45 will work for coyotes coon and the 2 legged critters.
 


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