454 cassul 460 Ruger 500 SW Alaskan Pistols Help/Advice

C

coloradoultramag

New member
I run and guide a elk,deer and bear camp in colorado. I like to carry a pistol because if I would happen to have a bear or lion encounter I would rather have a gun than someone who has never even seen a bear. I was thinking about getting one of the above mentioned guns probalby the 454 in the Alaskan with the stuby ported barrel. I was wondering if any of you guys have shot any thing compareable? If you have how bad do they kick? Are they very acurate? I have shot a Ruger Black Hawk 44mag do they kick about the same? Has any body shot the 500. Do they make the 500 in the little alskan. Currently I carry a 45 ultra carry kimber. It is a nice gun not much killing power. Any advice would be nice.

Thanks Gabe

P.S. If you have any Elk, deer or bear questions fire away.
 
Like most any purchase, it all comes down to money, and how much you are willing to spend?
Between the three you mention, I'd pick the .454, but opt for a Casull, fixed sights with the 4 3/4 inch barrel. The 500 and 460 will do nothing any better than a 454.
The other route, would be a poor mans .454.....a stout Ruger Vaquero, chambered in .45 colt, comes as close to a .454 as you can get, and not as pricey. Stuff it with 300 or heavier hard cast lead bullets, and you have a package that will stop anything in your neck of the woods.
 
I have the 454 Casull in the Taurus Raging Bull 5". I have owned several 44 mags over the years. The 454 in the Taurus with ported barrel and rubber grips felt recoil is less than the 44 mag (you don't get the barrel whip. So I would make sure the gun is ported and has rubber grips that fit your hand. I shot a friends 454 Redhawk and the recoil was unbearable.
 
You could also look around for a Dan Wesson 445 Super Mag*, they are the next step up from 44mag. It can push a 300 gr at 1300 + fps.

*I think it's called the 445.
 
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I think a 460 rowland would be a good option in a 1911. This is easy on kick and great on accuracy. The price is also hard to beat if you already have a 1911 sitting around its a direct drop in. Maximum power comes from a load of 200 grain bullet Pwr Pistol 12.6 grain @1472fps @973 muzzle energy i think that would fit the bill in an auto thats afordable with an easy kick and very fun to shoot at the range


Source
http://www.realguns.com/loads/460Rowland.htm
 
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The other route, would be a poor mans .454.....a stout Ruger Vaquero, chambered in .45 colt, comes as close to a .454 as you can get, and not as pricey.



Careful with the Vaqueros as Ruger recently introduced a new model that has been thinned down compared to the original.

Otherwise, there's always the .475 Linebaugh. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I have a 454 in a 9 1/2" Super Redhawk. It does kick a bit more than my 44 mag 9 1/2" Super Redhawk. The 500 S&W I shot kicked worse than my 454.
 
My little beauty just about stops my clock when I fire it.
What ever you decide on get it sooner than later. Your gonna need some practice with it.

45-701.jpg


This BFR 45-70 7 1/2" bbl Was $900. Thats almost half the price of a FA 454 casull. The finish is'nt as good but the fit is comparable. I'm reloading my own 400gr's to about 1800 fps. 47,000 cup.
Check out this site.
http://forums.sixgunner.com/
and Magnum Research
http://www.magnumresearch.com/bfr_fact.asp

I would like to get the Smith 500 some day. There DA's are the best, in my opinion. good luck, Theres nothing like a hand cannon to brighten up your day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
The 460 is simplely a stretched 454 case. You can run 45 colt, 454 casul, and 460 loads thru it.The 460 has them both on speed and flatter trajectory but thats about it. The guys are right I think I would stay with a casul. It will do the job on either of those animals I would think. The thing I always think about more then stopping power in one shot is quick follow up shots at a charging bruin. The last thing I want to do is get one shot off then have to corral a bucking pistol to get back on him. I carry a 44 mag or 357 I feel thats plenty enough gun.I carry a Taurus tracker in a 7 shot nice light gun.The alaskan's are sure a nice gun I would own one in a heart beat!!
Wheres your camp out of??
 
I have a S&W in .44 mag with a 6" bbl. It is nice to be able to practice with .44 special (cheap, no recoil). The full house 200grain hunting loads I shoot for deer kick pretty bad. I know the gun is accurate. I got it used for 400.00 a few years back. One like it or maybe a 4" barrell should be a good tool for your needs. I would stay away from anything with a snub barrel or ports. If you shoot it without muffs you will be deaf for days and probably lose some percentage of your hearring permanently.
 
Here in AK I have several pistols.......Glock 20, FA 454, Colt Python and a SW Performance Shop V Comp 5" 629. I carry the Glock proably the most. I have harvested several black bear with it using the Hornady 200 gr load. I like the 15 shot capacity and lighter weight.

The nice Ruger AK in 454 is sweet but muzzle blast is too much......barrels too short!
 
I carry a .44 Mag with a lasergrip sight. They make a rubber overmolded HogHunter model for the S$W. The Win. 250g Nosler Patition should do the job. I feel that bullet placement is more important than brute power. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif The little red dot on the head of a grouse, or rabbet has furnished more than a few meals. You can put a spring kit in the S&W, and dry fire double action in the house. After a while I could hold my own with the autos in action pistole competition. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif One more option to think about. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
I would not hesitate to buy another Ruger Blackhawk four and five eighths 45 colt. Mine is stainless, has decent adjustable sights, is pleasant to shoot with light loads and is tolerable with hot hard cast lead loads. My eleven year old has shot clay birds with it (light loads of course) and I handload 300 grain hard cast Oregon Trail SWC at approx. 1200fps for penetration/hunting. I can achieve sub three inch six shot groups at 25 yards (wrists rested) with hot loads which is more than enough payload to handle deer/elk/bear. I paid about 400 many years ago, but they go for closer to 500 now.
Have fun shopping.
Todd

45blackhawk_001.jpg


pic of my new model blackhawk. The grip frame is not original, I modified it with a grinder and files to round it up some, it feels much better in the hand.
 
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No one even mentioned this gun. It also comes in an Alaskan with a 2 1/2 inch barrel as well as this model. The .480 Ruger is an excellant cartridge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif. Felt recoil is only a bit more than a .44 magnum but the load still delivers some wallup and would be very effective on anything you would encounter in your neck of the woods.
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5507&return=Y

My next choice would be the Taurus Raging Bull in the .454 Casull. This pistol is also very manageable for recoil like Sam Spade stated. Last but not least, the .460 is a good choice because of its versatility. Having a multi purpose gun that you can fill with .460, .454 Casull or .45 LC depending on your mood or application is a very valuable feature in deed. I think Ganders statement: "the .460 has the .454 and 45 LC on speed and trajectory and thats about it" is a tad bit of an under statement. The .460 is capapble of handling anything from a 200 grain bullet up to a 400 grain bullet and is pushing the 200 grainer somewhere around 2350 fps. That is the worlds fastest handgun cartridge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif.
 
Whatever you get, if you encounter an angry bear, remember to save the last shot for yourself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Back in the 80s', Ross Seyfried, was ahead of his time in tinkering with the potential of the 45 colt. He had Bowen make one up with a five shot cylinder, and flung 320 grain hard cast flat point lead bullets into all kinds of big stuff. He even took cape buffalo, and hammered them. The 45 colt works as hard as the casull without the extreme pressures....great cartridge.
The new breed of super short 454s' and 500s 460s, way more hype than they deserve, as well as long barreled abortions like the BFR et al;
A 4 or 5 inch barreled 45 colt, with proper bullets,put in a holster on your hip, will kill anything that walks this continent.
 
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Back in the 80s', Ross Seyfried, was ahead of his time in tinkering with the potential of the 45 colt. He had Bowen make one up with a five shot cylinder, and flung 320 grain hard cast flat point lead bullets into all kinds of big stuff. He even took cape buffalo, and hammered them. The 45 colt works as hard as the casull without the extreme pressures....great cartridge.
The new breed of super short 454s' and 500s 460s, way more hype than they deserve, as well as long barreled abortions like the BFR et al;
A 4 or 5 inch barreled 45 colt, with proper bullets,put in a holster on your hip, will kill anything that walks this continent.



But, will it kill 'em all deader than a 44 mag?

All respect to all yous guys various hand-cannons, but in the final analysis, doesn't the good 'ol 44 with a reasonably cheap (especially caompared to the others) factorty loaded Win 240 gr (available EVERYWHERE) bullet kill pretty much anything deader than Hadrian's goat with even a reasonably well placed shot?

The above logic is what has restrained me from adding other pocket artillary to my six inch Colt Anaconda.

Then again I load it with 300 gr Sierras @ 1100 fps, so I .... what was my point again?

Oh, yeah- price, availability of ammo, resale, etc. etc. 44 mag is hard to beat.
 
Oh, don't get me wrong I am not doubting it as a great handgun cartridge. I would forsure own one but I would personally find another gun/cartridge in a packing pistol if it was myself. Something forsure in double/single action, less felt recoil for faster follow ups, and I would have to think a 357 or 44 loaded with a hard cast SWC type bullet would be divistating on our black bears and forsure on a lion.Whichever way you go GOOD LUCK!!
 
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Coloradoultramag

How hard do they kick compared to a 44 Magnum? First off a large handgun like you’re describing with that sort a barrel is not going to be a pleasure to shoot. I have seen guys get rid of ported .357’s with that short a barrel who were veteran shooters. There are a lot of variables here the biggest being the shooter. It sounds to me like you have some 44 magnum experience. Conservatively you’re almost gaining 50% the foot pounds of energy from 44 magnum using equal barrels and the same bullet. The difference is going to be very perceptible.

My suggestion would be to actually shoot some of them to find out which would be the best fit for you. I’ve done that myself after shooting a 44 for over 20 years. The Guns I tested were Rugers, BFR’s and Freedom Arms. I came to the conclusion that the largest one I can shoot well is the .475 Linebaugh. My choice would have either a 4 5/8 or 6 inch barrel. Not as compact as you were thinking. A little more velocity but the real gain is losing some of the totally unacceptable muzzle blast was a factor for me over those shorter barrels. The ported barrels also generated too much blast in my opinion. You can always load the Big Boys down a little if you wish but the smaller gun is never going to be loaded anywhere near the level of the larger ones.
 
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If you really want to get down to it.
45-703.jpg

These guys have a lot of good advice, but It's what you want...! that your gonna buy. If you think an alligator is a mans dog and recoil is fun, you'll buy the cannon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Grab a dozzon 460's or some .500 Smith rounds and put them in your pocket. You might have to tighten up your belt so your pants stay up. When I pick up my 5 pound revolver, It's usually by the cylinder, being 15 inches long, it balances better. I crattle her in one arm as I head out the door. I gotta look were I'm walking cause my eyes just want to go there. She sits in the passanger seat, takes up the whole seat, the little hawg. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't bother with the seatbelt, we're not going far. I bring a can of orange spray paint and a 16oz coffee cup cut in half so I can spray a nice circle on a dead tree. My reloads kinda sound like a wind chime in my pocket walking. There bright with the fresh brass and the copper jacket. The 45-70's slide in the chamber like a torpedo in the tube.
As I [beeep] the hammer, I ask her, are you gonna hurt me Maxine?
Oh, my god, she just went off! Holy sheep $#!^.
You blew the whole back of the tree off. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif wow, I watch as the vapor trail moves away with the wind.
The second round is usually the one that I make a conscious attempt not to clinch my teeth and squint my eyes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
By the 5th round my hand hurts and arm is a little tingley that when a 22 come out, intermittion time.
A dozzon rounds is all I can take at one time. Shes dirty, powder residue all over the finish and my hands. Like tak'n a 4x4 thru the woods, I dirty'd her. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I think I want a Extra Large Frame (X) -Model 500 Revolver - 4" Smith $ Wesson (without the muzzle brake). They list for $1200 but I bet I can find one used ....../ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif cheap!! that someone bought, fired a dozzon, and said "Why did I buy this flippen thing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif"
So, Whatshu really want /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 


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