5.56/.223 Do I need a longer barrel?

A

AKBman

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My current calling rifle is a plain Jane 16.5" AR in 5.56/.223 with a red dot optic that has proven effective out to 200 yards so far. If I know I will be shooting longer distances, I haul out my heavy barreled Rem 700 in 22-250, but it is a heavy beast. I am wondering if I need to get another upper for my AR with say a 20" barrel and a no kidding scope with magnification? I would like to stick with the 5.56 as I have an ample supply of reloading components for it and the 22-250.
 
I am in the same boat my friend. I'll be watching this thread right along with ya. My only addition to the question would be how light can we get a truly safe trigger to go with the new barrel? I keep reading about the "double taps" from some of the too-light triggers.
 
The extra ~200fps velocity of a 20" barrel vs 16" will only increase your effectiveness by ~50 yards.

If you self-limit the range of your current setup to 200 yards based on velocity and ft lbs etc, then congratulations a new 20" barrel will extend that to 250 yards.

Is that worth it to you? Does that justify the cost of a new barrel and a "no kidding" scope? That's up to you.
 
I don't intend to limit my range to 200 yards, with the 22-250, I am killing dogs out to nearly 400 yards when the wind cooperates. I am wanting to extend my range with the AR, it weighs about 3# less than the Rem, it is cheaper to reload, and has a longer barrel life.
 
I would suggest that you try putting a decent scope on your current upper and shooting at your longer ranges first. Then, if not satisfied, you can decide if going to a longer barrel might be your answer knowing that you may be getting anther 200 or so FPS increase.
 
I shoot my 16 inch AR to 750 yards. Change your optic, get your DOPE, then reassess.

You won't use a red dot to 400 even if you get another barrel.
 
I am not trying to hijack this thread...but...my question is close to the OP. My current set-up is a 16 inch pencil barrel with the stock "battle trigger". I understand the need for a better trigger but am I to understand that a 20 inch bull barrel is only going to help with another 50 yards? I was in the hopes that I could shrink the groups substantially so as to have more fun at the range in addition to doing better on coyote killing.
 
My 16" AR shoots the factory ammo I use with a 55gr V max at 2750fps.
My 20" AR shoots the same ammo to 2964fps.

The same 20" AR shoots the factory 53gr V max Superformance loads at 3286fps. I just experimented with them last week and got one .5" group, chronographed 5, and then shot a 1.5" group. I need to get another nice day and shoot some more to see if they shoot well enough to justify a switch. The ammo I'm using is consistently .5" right now and I won't give up much accuracy for speed.

As was mentioned above, I feel my AR is definitely at it's best inside 250yds with it's standard duplex 2.5-10x scope. 1.5" high gets me to 225yds without compensation but by 250 I'm 4" low and at 300 it's 10" low. I have considered getting a different scope for it and moving this one to my back-up AR, but haven't done so yet. This scope works pretty darn well for 90% of my calling. It's only this time of year when I'm hitting spots for the 2nd or 3rd time and running into more coyotes hanging up at 300+ yards I start wishing for more range.

I would like to try one of the Burris Eliminator 3 scopes in a 3-12x with the built in rangefinder and wind compensating reticle but haven't wanted to put out the cash. Trying to range a coyote, dial the scope, and then shoot it without getting spotted is a lot of movement to get away with. Especially since I like to move from sitting to prone if at all possible for those longer shots. Having a scope with a built in rangefinder that doesn't need dialed takes steps out of that process.
 
What? My 16" barrel is only good to 200 yds. Killed a lot of coyotes over 300yds learn the drop put a scope on it and spend time at the range. Good trigger will help. Your 22-250 and your AR are very different animals.
MB
 
You want down range performance... get an 18" barrel (WOA, Ballistic Advantage) and load you some MK262 clone ammo.

77Gr OTM with Re15 or TAC.
 
All I really want is to extend my current range with my AR, it sounds like maybe I should just try a scope in place of the red dot on my existing set up. I suppose I could bring out my 300 Win for the sets that put me out of range with the AR.
 
Barrel length will give you some extra speed, but will not necessarily add accuracy.
I run a 24" barrel as the 223 is a wimpy round to start with, but I also shoot farther than most. But, even the coyotes I have shot at 600 yards go down quickly. It's about a good bullet with proper placement.
 
Originally Posted By: AKBmanAll I really want is to extend my current range with my AR, it sounds like maybe I should just try a scope in place of the red dot

A good scope will make a big difference. I think you'll be very happy.
 
There are a LOT of considerations other than barrel length when it comes to shooting longer distances. The profile of the barrel effects barrel whip (harmonics) which can effect accuracy. Whether the barrel is crowned. The twist rate, weight of bullet, velocity of bullet going down the barrel all have an effect on accuracy. The velocity loss because of a shorter barrel is negligible. If you have doubts about that, chronograph your rounds. I used to run a bull barrel 16in .223 and had rounds that matched the advertised speeds, even though the advertised test barrel was 24 inches. Yes, your drop might be more with a slower bullet. So you just have to dial that into your adjustments. Comparing a .223 to a .22-250 is apples to watermelons. Comparing two .223's or .22-250's to each other will get you better information.

The same is true about the scope. A red dot to a scope is apples to watermelons. Put a better piece of glass on it and take it out to the range and see what you are capable of with it.
 
A consistent 1.5 MOA rifle at 300 yards is still plenty for a coyote.
That's only 2.3" radius from aiming point. Coyotes are what 7" top to bottom?
 
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Originally Posted By: AKBmanYeah, I get the accuracy bit, the added velocity just means less drop. Looking at scopes now.

Just an FYI I was looking at scopes a bit for my 20" AR. While I'd like to try a Burris Eliminator III, the price is high enough I won't. I looked at the bullet drop info for the extra crosshairs on the Leupold Varmint Hunter and Burris Predator scope. My slower 223 load (55gr at 2964fps) didn't match up real well with either unless I went with a 100yd zero. I prefer a zero of at least 150yds so I can just hold center to 200yds without much rise or drop in between. I found that the Leupold B&C reticle designed for slower big game rounds, using the triangle for slower loads instead of the max power triangle, fits a 200yd zero with my load very well out to 400yds. A 3.5-10x Leupold or even a 4.5-14x for more open country might be a good scope to look at. It might fit hotter ammo in a shorter barreled gun well.
 
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