50gr Vmax range
- Thread starter brasshead
- Start date
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: RustydustOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: brassheadHow much better is the Ackley over the standard 223?
about 75 to 100 fps...
.
That's pretty close for some loads but I have been known to hotrod mine a bit. I can get over 4000 fps with a 40 grain bullet. That's not a lot slower than I normally load my .220 Swift.
Most times I shoot a 50 grain bullet around 3650 FPS.
Hotrod?? WHAT???
Hotrod from the man that never got his Corvette out of first gear
.
about 75 to 100 fps...
.
That's pretty close for some loads but I have been known to hotrod mine a bit. I can get over 4000 fps with a 40 grain bullet. That's not a lot slower than I normally load my .220 Swift.
Most times I shoot a 50 grain bullet around 3650 FPS.
Hotrod?? WHAT???
Hotrod from the man that never got his Corvette out of first gear
.
With the 50 grain V-Max I'm getting just under 3700 fps out of my 223AI. That's around 200 fps over book velocity. Does it kill them any deader? I really don't know. Is it more accurate? I don't think so. Would I want to shoot a regular 223 instead? Not likely.
I put a 223AI barrel on a Sako L461 because the 222 mag barrel was worn. All I was looking for was 222 mag velocity but I got a pleasant surprise. It's my favorite rifle. Even if there were no increase in velocity I would choose the AI. I have yet to have to trim a case.
I put a 223AI barrel on a Sako L461 because the 222 mag barrel was worn. All I was looking for was 222 mag velocity but I got a pleasant surprise. It's my favorite rifle. Even if there were no increase in velocity I would choose the AI. I have yet to have to trim a case.
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: WhoCaresIf your not shooting at a live target and there is little wind you should be able to hit 600 yds reliably. Won't have much energy left. Heck u could probably hit a 1000 yd target if you don't mind the rainbow trajectory.
At 850 yards, the 50 V-Max from a 223, and a 175 Sierra MatchKing have the same trajectory, and at 1,000 yards, the 50 V-Max has only 10% more drop - so why is long range OK with the 308 and not OK with the 223 and 50gr V-Max?
Originally Posted By: LWILLIAMS
Not consistently at all as the bullet at 223 velocity would be subsonic and the transition would likely play helll on which way the bullet wants to go. Yeah, maybe 1 in 50 might hit the target but not the right tool for that shooting.
There is no problem with "subsonic" and "transitions"... these are myths passed on by guys that haven't shot at very long range.
There are a fair number of guys on this site that have whacked PD's at 1,000 yds and better with 223 class rifles, and 50gr plastic tipped bullets - all you gotta do is adjust for the (predictable) drop.
.
At 850 yards, the 50 V-Max from a 223, and a 175 Sierra MatchKing have the same trajectory, and at 1,000 yards, the 50 V-Max has only 10% more drop - so why is long range OK with the 308 and not OK with the 223 and 50gr V-Max?
Originally Posted By: LWILLIAMS
Not consistently at all as the bullet at 223 velocity would be subsonic and the transition would likely play helll on which way the bullet wants to go. Yeah, maybe 1 in 50 might hit the target but not the right tool for that shooting.
There is no problem with "subsonic" and "transitions"... these are myths passed on by guys that haven't shot at very long range.
There are a fair number of guys on this site that have whacked PD's at 1,000 yds and better with 223 class rifles, and 50gr plastic tipped bullets - all you gotta do is adjust for the (predictable) drop.
.
Last edited:
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: LWILLIAMSOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: WhoCaresIf your not shooting at a live target and there is little wind you should be able to hit 600 yds reliably. Won't have much energy left. Heck u could probably hit a 1000 yd target if you don't mind the rainbow trajectory.
At 850 yards, the 50 V-Max from a 223, and a 175 Sierra MatchKing have the same trajectory, and at 1,000 yards, the 50 V-Max has only 10% more drop - so why is long range OK with the 308 and not OK with the 223 and 50gr V-Max?
There is no problem with "subsonic" and "transitions"... these are myths passed on by guys that haven't shot at very long range.
There are a fair number of guys on this site that have whacked PD's at 1,000 yds and better with 223 class rifles, and 50gr plastic tipped bullets - all you gotta do is adjust for the (predictable) drop.
.
Not consistently at all as the bullet at 223 velocity would be subsonic and the transition would likely play helll on which way the bullet wants to go. Yeah, maybe 1 in 50 might hit the target but not the right tool for that shooting.
Sorry Amigo - that is a myth that is believed by guys that don't shoot at long range, or want something to blame for their lousy shooting.
Bullets do NOT change directions.
And nothing "... plays helll on which way the bullet wants to go."
The turbulence is always behind the bullet (like the wake of a motorboat), so the bullet can never go through it... so it can never be disturbed.
That is not "my opinion", it is plain ol' physics.
.
At 850 yards, the 50 V-Max from a 223, and a 175 Sierra MatchKing have the same trajectory, and at 1,000 yards, the 50 V-Max has only 10% more drop - so why is long range OK with the 308 and not OK with the 223 and 50gr V-Max?
There is no problem with "subsonic" and "transitions"... these are myths passed on by guys that haven't shot at very long range.
There are a fair number of guys on this site that have whacked PD's at 1,000 yds and better with 223 class rifles, and 50gr plastic tipped bullets - all you gotta do is adjust for the (predictable) drop.
.
Not consistently at all as the bullet at 223 velocity would be subsonic and the transition would likely play helll on which way the bullet wants to go. Yeah, maybe 1 in 50 might hit the target but not the right tool for that shooting.
Sorry Amigo - that is a myth that is believed by guys that don't shoot at long range, or want something to blame for their lousy shooting.
Bullets do NOT change directions.
And nothing "... plays helll on which way the bullet wants to go."
The turbulence is always behind the bullet (like the wake of a motorboat), so the bullet can never go through it... so it can never be disturbed.
That is not "my opinion", it is plain ol' physics.
.
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: RustydustOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: brassheadHow much better is the Ackley over the standard 223?
about 75 to 100 fps...
.
That's pretty close for some loads but I have been known to hotrod mine a bit. I can get over 4000 fps with a 40 grain bullet. That's not a lot slower than I normally load my .220 Swift.
Most times I shoot a 50 grain bullet around 3650 FPS.
Hotrod?? WHAT???
Hotrod from the man that never got his Corvette out of first gear
.
Ya, I thought one toasted barrels and whatnot that way....LOL
about 75 to 100 fps...
.
That's pretty close for some loads but I have been known to hotrod mine a bit. I can get over 4000 fps with a 40 grain bullet. That's not a lot slower than I normally load my .220 Swift.
Most times I shoot a 50 grain bullet around 3650 FPS.
Hotrod?? WHAT???
Hotrod from the man that never got his Corvette out of first gear
.
Ya, I thought one toasted barrels and whatnot that way....LOL
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: LWILLIAMSOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: WhoCaresIf your not shooting at a live target and there is little wind you should be able to hit 600 yds reliably. Won't have much energy left. Heck u could probably hit a 1000 yd target if you don't mind the rainbow trajectory.
At 850 yards, the 50 V-Max from a 223, and a 175 Sierra MatchKing have the same trajectory, and at 1,000 yards, the 50 V-Max has only 10% more drop - so why is long range OK with the 308 and not OK with the 223 and 50gr V-Max?
There is no problem with "subsonic" and "transitions"... these are myths passed on by guys that haven't shot at very long range.
There are a fair number of guys on this site that have whacked PD's at 1,000 yds and better with 223 class rifles, and 50gr plastic tipped bullets - all you gotta do is adjust for the (predictable) drop.
.
Not consistently at all as the bullet at 223 velocity would be subsonic and the transition would likely play helll on which way the bullet wants to go. Yeah, maybe 1 in 50 might hit the target but not the right tool for that shooting.
Sorry Amigo - that is a myth that is believed by guys that don't shoot at long range, or want something to blame for their lousy shooting.
Bullets do NOT change directions.
And nothing "... plays helll on which way the bullet wants to go."
The turbulence is always behind the bullet (like the wake of a motorboat), so the bullet can never go through it... so it can never be disturbed.
That is not "my opinion", it is plain ol' physics.
.
I do shoot long range actually. Out to a mile at least once a month and 1200 regularly. I see bullets that will not keep it together like the 168 amax in a 308 at that range but the 155 scenar and 175 smk do just fine. In my 6cm the little 115 dtac transitions well. There are different sides to this debate with ballisticians like Bryan Litz confirming what I see and some with smaller names on your side. I guess all I can claim is what I see when I shoot regularly with big names seeing the same thing to support what I am seeing. I guess where you shoot there are different magical forces at play. With the nose up on a bullet when they transition the pressure is not the same on both sides of the bullet. Like I said, some make the transition others dont. I have read both sides of the debate and come up with what I see to be true actually out shooting steel and paper at certain ranges. If what you say is true then the guys running 308 at our matches should have no problem hanging in there, but once the targets venture out past 1000 the 308 for the most part drops off unless running certain bullets and if they get to 1200 the 308 is no where to be seen in the winning circle. I have read the arguments over and over on this and this is as far as I am going to argue my point. To anyone reading this debate I encourage you to go out and run some distance and see what you come up with. Even the experts have 2 sides to this fence.
At 850 yards, the 50 V-Max from a 223, and a 175 Sierra MatchKing have the same trajectory, and at 1,000 yards, the 50 V-Max has only 10% more drop - so why is long range OK with the 308 and not OK with the 223 and 50gr V-Max?
There is no problem with "subsonic" and "transitions"... these are myths passed on by guys that haven't shot at very long range.
There are a fair number of guys on this site that have whacked PD's at 1,000 yds and better with 223 class rifles, and 50gr plastic tipped bullets - all you gotta do is adjust for the (predictable) drop.
.
Not consistently at all as the bullet at 223 velocity would be subsonic and the transition would likely play helll on which way the bullet wants to go. Yeah, maybe 1 in 50 might hit the target but not the right tool for that shooting.
Sorry Amigo - that is a myth that is believed by guys that don't shoot at long range, or want something to blame for their lousy shooting.
Bullets do NOT change directions.
And nothing "... plays helll on which way the bullet wants to go."
The turbulence is always behind the bullet (like the wake of a motorboat), so the bullet can never go through it... so it can never be disturbed.
That is not "my opinion", it is plain ol' physics.
.
I do shoot long range actually. Out to a mile at least once a month and 1200 regularly. I see bullets that will not keep it together like the 168 amax in a 308 at that range but the 155 scenar and 175 smk do just fine. In my 6cm the little 115 dtac transitions well. There are different sides to this debate with ballisticians like Bryan Litz confirming what I see and some with smaller names on your side. I guess all I can claim is what I see when I shoot regularly with big names seeing the same thing to support what I am seeing. I guess where you shoot there are different magical forces at play. With the nose up on a bullet when they transition the pressure is not the same on both sides of the bullet. Like I said, some make the transition others dont. I have read both sides of the debate and come up with what I see to be true actually out shooting steel and paper at certain ranges. If what you say is true then the guys running 308 at our matches should have no problem hanging in there, but once the targets venture out past 1000 the 308 for the most part drops off unless running certain bullets and if they get to 1200 the 308 is no where to be seen in the winning circle. I have read the arguments over and over on this and this is as far as I am going to argue my point. To anyone reading this debate I encourage you to go out and run some distance and see what you come up with. Even the experts have 2 sides to this fence.
Last edited:
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: LWILLIAMSOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: LWILLIAMSOriginally Posted By: CatShooter
At 850 yards, the 50 V-Max from a 223, and a 175 Sierra MatchKing have the same trajectory, and at 1,000 yards, the 50 V-Max has only 10% more drop - so why is long range OK with the 308 and not OK with the 223 and 50gr V-Max?
There is no problem with "subsonic" and "transitions"... these are myths passed on by guys that haven't shot at very long range.
There are a fair number of guys on this site that have whacked PD's at 1,000 yds and better with 223 class rifles, and 50gr plastic tipped bullets - all you gotta do is adjust for the (predictable) drop.
.
Not consistently at all as the bullet at 223 velocity would be subsonic and the transition would likely play helll on which way the bullet wants to go. Yeah, maybe 1 in 50 might hit the target but not the right tool for that shooting.
Sorry Amigo - that is a myth that is believed by guys that don't shoot at long range, or want something to blame for their lousy shooting.
Bullets do NOT change directions.
And nothing "... plays helll on which way the bullet wants to go."
The turbulence is always behind the bullet (like the wake of a motorboat), so the bullet can never go through it... so it can never be disturbed.
That is not "my opinion", it is plain ol' physics.
.
I do shoot long range actually. Out to a mile at least once a month and 1200 regularly. I see bullets that will not keep it together like the 168 amax in a 308 at that range but the 155 scenar and 175 smk do just fine. In my 6cm the little 115 dtac transitions well. There are different sides to this debate with ballisticians like Bryan Litz confirming what I see and some with smaller names on your side. I guess all I can claim is what I see when I shoot regularly with big names seeing the same thing to support what I am seeing. I guess where you shoot there are different magical forces at play. With the nose up on a bullet when they transition the pressure is not the same on both sides of the bullet. Like I said, some make the transition others dont. I have read both sides of the debate and come up with what I see to be true actually out shooting steel and paper at certain ranges. If what you say is true then the guys running 308 at our matches should have no problem hanging in there, but once the targets venture out past 1000 the 308 for the most part drops off unless running certain bullets and if they get to 1200 the 308 is no where to be seen in the winning circle. I have read the arguments over and over on this and this is as far as I am going to argue my point. To anyone reading this debate I encourage you to go out and run some distance and see what you come up with. Even the experts have 2 sides to this fence.
This is a different discussion that your original comments. Your original comments defy the laws of physics... and Brian Litz also has some revisionist versions of the laws of physics.
I'd love to see any of these guys write this stuff and present it to a university sometime. If they are right, they are in line for a Nobel Prize in Physics (worth about 1.3 million USD).
At 850 yards, the 50 V-Max from a 223, and a 175 Sierra MatchKing have the same trajectory, and at 1,000 yards, the 50 V-Max has only 10% more drop - so why is long range OK with the 308 and not OK with the 223 and 50gr V-Max?
There is no problem with "subsonic" and "transitions"... these are myths passed on by guys that haven't shot at very long range.
There are a fair number of guys on this site that have whacked PD's at 1,000 yds and better with 223 class rifles, and 50gr plastic tipped bullets - all you gotta do is adjust for the (predictable) drop.
.
Not consistently at all as the bullet at 223 velocity would be subsonic and the transition would likely play helll on which way the bullet wants to go. Yeah, maybe 1 in 50 might hit the target but not the right tool for that shooting.
Sorry Amigo - that is a myth that is believed by guys that don't shoot at long range, or want something to blame for their lousy shooting.
Bullets do NOT change directions.
And nothing "... plays helll on which way the bullet wants to go."
The turbulence is always behind the bullet (like the wake of a motorboat), so the bullet can never go through it... so it can never be disturbed.
That is not "my opinion", it is plain ol' physics.
.
I do shoot long range actually. Out to a mile at least once a month and 1200 regularly. I see bullets that will not keep it together like the 168 amax in a 308 at that range but the 155 scenar and 175 smk do just fine. In my 6cm the little 115 dtac transitions well. There are different sides to this debate with ballisticians like Bryan Litz confirming what I see and some with smaller names on your side. I guess all I can claim is what I see when I shoot regularly with big names seeing the same thing to support what I am seeing. I guess where you shoot there are different magical forces at play. With the nose up on a bullet when they transition the pressure is not the same on both sides of the bullet. Like I said, some make the transition others dont. I have read both sides of the debate and come up with what I see to be true actually out shooting steel and paper at certain ranges. If what you say is true then the guys running 308 at our matches should have no problem hanging in there, but once the targets venture out past 1000 the 308 for the most part drops off unless running certain bullets and if they get to 1200 the 308 is no where to be seen in the winning circle. I have read the arguments over and over on this and this is as far as I am going to argue my point. To anyone reading this debate I encourage you to go out and run some distance and see what you come up with. Even the experts have 2 sides to this fence.
This is a different discussion that your original comments. Your original comments defy the laws of physics... and Brian Litz also has some revisionist versions of the laws of physics.
I'd love to see any of these guys write this stuff and present it to a university sometime. If they are right, they are in line for a Nobel Prize in Physics (worth about 1.3 million USD).
doggin coyotes
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: CatShooter they are in line for a Nobel Prize in Physics (worth about 1.3 million USD).
We all know now that they aren't to [beeep] picky who they give those to..
We all know now that they aren't to [beeep] picky who they give those to..
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: doggin coyotesOriginally Posted By: CatShooter they are in line for a Nobel Prize in Physics (worth about 1.3 million USD).
We all know now that they aren't to damm picky who they give those to..
Different critters. The "Peace prize" is lame and very political (consider the past leader of Palestine, Yasser Arafat [thank you, Jimmy Carter]).
But the physics committee is a hard nut to get past - "Big Al" Einstein couldn't get one for his work on relativity.
.
We all know now that they aren't to damm picky who they give those to..
Different critters. The "Peace prize" is lame and very political (consider the past leader of Palestine, Yasser Arafat [thank you, Jimmy Carter]).
But the physics committee is a hard nut to get past - "Big Al" Einstein couldn't get one for his work on relativity.
.
catwhacker
Active member
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: doggin coyotesOriginally Posted By: CatShooter they are in line for a Nobel Prize in Physics (worth about 1.3 million USD).
We all know now that they aren't to damm picky who they give those to..
Different critters. The "Peace prize" is lame and very political (consider the past leader of Palestine, Yasser Arafat [thank you, Jimmy Carter]).
But the physics committee is a hard nut to get past - "Big Al" Einstein couldn't get one for his work on relativity.
.
Dang, You just peed on my hopes and dreams!! I'm going to go shoot a cat!!
We all know now that they aren't to damm picky who they give those to..
Different critters. The "Peace prize" is lame and very political (consider the past leader of Palestine, Yasser Arafat [thank you, Jimmy Carter]).
But the physics committee is a hard nut to get past - "Big Al" Einstein couldn't get one for his work on relativity.
.
Dang, You just peed on my hopes and dreams!! I'm going to go shoot a cat!!
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: catwhackerOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: doggin coyotesOriginally Posted By: CatShooter they are in line for a Nobel Prize in Physics (worth about 1.3 million USD).
We all know now that they aren't to damm picky who they give those to..
Different critters. The "Peace prize" is lame and very political (consider the past leader of Palestine, Yasser Arafat [thank you, Jimmy Carter]).
But the physics committee is a hard nut to get past - "Big Al" Einstein couldn't get one for his work on relativity.
.
Dang, You just peed on my hopes and dreams!! I'm going to go shoot a cat!!
Shoot one for me too
We all know now that they aren't to damm picky who they give those to..
Different critters. The "Peace prize" is lame and very political (consider the past leader of Palestine, Yasser Arafat [thank you, Jimmy Carter]).
But the physics committee is a hard nut to get past - "Big Al" Einstein couldn't get one for his work on relativity.
.
Dang, You just peed on my hopes and dreams!! I'm going to go shoot a cat!!
Shoot one for me too