55 gr. vmax and Varget

P

picksbigwagon

New member
Okay, I did a ladder load for this set up and had my best results from 27 gr. of varget. according to my lee manual, the most varget I could use would be 27.5 and that would be a compressed load. Well a buddy with a hornady book let me take a gander at it, and it says my max should be 26.4.

what do your books read? I am using CCI primers, shooting out of a 20" ar-15, 1-9 twist. Hornady says it used a 26" barrel 1-12 twist with winchester wsr primers.

Any insight here. I had no noticeable problems with the cases that I shot in my ladder loads from 26.6-27.2 (5 shot groups, .2 steps)

I won't take another step to reloading these until I get some feedback.....

Thanks
 
Every barrel is different and every chamber is different. That is why you always have to work up loads. There are no guaranteed safe loads in your rifle unless you work up to them and see that they are safe.

Jack
 
There is an internal ballistics program called QuickLOAD that calculates internal ballistics based on a bunch of factors. It is very good and after I got the program, I went back through 10 yrs. of my reloading log and simulated some loads that I had built. In almost every case,it paralleled what I had observed in 'hotness'. It is not an 'end all' but another valuable tool for reloading that now that I have it, I can't do without it.

Anyway, with that all said, QL says that your load in a 20" barrel and COL of 2.26 is about 5% compressed with a pressure estimate of 56,518 psi. It falls right at the beginning edge of the 'hot load' category but is not considered 'dangerous' until you get to 28gr.

These calcs are done at a specific ambient temperature and elevation. Higher temps, different brass, etc... can affect these figures adversely. And like Jack said above, every gun is different and yours may be better or worse.

There are several signs to determine overpressure situations. Prior to the availability of these types of simulations, we had to rely on measurements which are 'after the fact' but once you see them, it could be too late and any damage could have already occurred. I would take this calculation and the book maxes into consideration.
 
Barrels can not read loading manuals, if they could, I wish they would pay particular attention to the Nosler manual's accuracy loads!

I have had barrels that I could never reach the Max load listed in the manual, and I have had barrels that would shoot 6g over max and still not have a hot load. There can be huge variations in the burning rates of powders from lot# to lot#.

You have to be your own ballistician when it comes to a max load. The nosler manual has some very good info on exactly what to look for in max pressures.

Varget is pretty slow for a 55g bullet, H-322 would be a much better choice, but I hope your results are great for you.
 
The only time Varget makes any sense in the 223 remington is when I use the HEAVY bullets. Then , holy cow I can actually load to max without trying to shoehorn even close to a max charge of Varget into a case. How did you even fit 27 grains in there? With the 55 grain Vmax I'm sure you were compressed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

For great accuracy as well as velocity try some 748, 2015, or 335. Loading will go alot easier, and your accuracy and veloctity will be maximized.

Varget however seems ideal in the 22-250's I've loaded for.
 
Heavy bullets? would 60 grain fall into that or are you talking 68+?

Yes, there is a lot of powder in a 27 grain load. I had two loads that had 3 of 5 touching, one was 26gr. of varget touching and the other was the 27 gr. The interesting part was that there was only about 200 fps second between the two different loads. Maybe I will go back to the 26 gr. of varget.

Also, Do I use a crimp die with the vmax or not? I have asked a couple different people at the stores where I get my reloading stuff and have gotten different answers, wonder what I will get here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
No insult to the thousands of Varget users in 223. Its a good powder, but has some drawbacks, as all handloaders can easily see. Tough to match velocity of many powders, hard to meter. But yes, accuracy is very good.

But for some reason folks veiw Varget as a magic powder for accuracy in the 223.

I have loaded it in at least 4 different AR's and 2 different bolt guns, and Varget was indeed accurate. But certainly no more than 748, or 2015, RL15 or 335.

Its a hassle to work max charges of Varget.........period.

But as stated above I have finally found a use for Varget in my 223's. 23.5 grains of Varget and a 75 grain Amax. Sweet as it actually fits easily into the case.

Lots better powder choices in 223 Remington for 50 - 60 grain bullets especially for those looking for an accurate and speedy load.
 
Varget and 75gr AMax (and 69gr SMK) works well in all of my .223 rifles. Found several accuracy nodes between 23.5g and 25.2g. They seem to go together pretty well. Varget doesn't throw very well but it does seem to be pretty consistent from freezing temps all the way to 110.
 
Quote:
The only time Varget makes any sense in the 223 remington is when I use the HEAVY bullets.



Well, shooting 5 bullets into one hole make sense to me. I believe that over years that I have run the gauntlet with all the powders avail for the 223 Remington. Several years ago on advice from a friend I tried Varget for the 1st time. Wow. Suddenly my old Savage 112 was shooting quarter inch groups. And this was with 50 grain polymer tipped bullets as well. No, it wont meter as well out of my powder dump as some of the other powders, and I can get a tad more velocities with some of the others as well, but I dont care. Tagging ground squirrels at 300+ yards that are no bigger than a 6 oz juice can takes a rifle that will really shoot. And shoot it does- in spades.

Oh, and it is my favorite powder for my little 17 Remington too. Yeah, takes it a while to go down that funnel into that BB sized neck, but who cares? It shoots so doggone well that I doubt I ever again change my load for this gun. Or the 223 either. I am sold on Varget.
 
hmmm freezin temps to 110, sounds like minnesota...........


I don't throw my charges I weigh each one. SO lets get back to my original question please, with answers this time not preaching.

WHAT DOES YOUR RELOADING MANUAL SAY ABOUT USING VARGET (that is the powder I am using, deal with it!) AND 55 GR. VMAX. AM I ABLE TO USE UP TO 27.5 GRAINS LIKE MY MANUAL SAYS OR IS THE OTHER MANUAL I LOOKED AT CORRECT. MY SEATING DEPTH IS 2.250"
 
My accuracy loads for the .223 are pretty simple. CCI primer, dump in 26 grains of Varget & cram a bullet in it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif From 40grainers up to 63grainers. this has worked really well for me in 3 different bolt-guns, plus its easy to remember /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Trouble with loading manuals is, the test guns are never like yours. Compare the test gun in one manual to what another one uses and you'll see they're not the same. Then check their brass/primer/bullet combination. Then, consider there can be a significant difference from one lot of powder to another. And there can also be big variations from one barrel to another. Looking at all this stuff and trying to somehow draw conclusions about your own setup can drive you nuts. Luckily, barrels don't read. So just do your own loads according to what the gun tells you is happening and don't worry about whether it's over or under what's in a manual.

Varget has never worked well for me in bigger cases. And - deal with it - there are better .223 powder choices for a 55gr bullet. Want a nice accuracy/velocity surprise, try some VV135 or AA2015 or 748.
 
Quote:
hmmm freezin temps to 110, sounds like minnesota...........


I don't throw my charges I weigh each one. SO lets get back to my original question please, with answers this time not preaching.

WHAT DOES YOUR RELOADING MANUAL SAY ABOUT USING VARGET (that is the powder I am using, deal with it!) AND 55 GR. VMAX. AM I ABLE TO USE UP TO 27.5 GRAINS LIKE MY MANUAL SAYS OR IS THE OTHER MANUAL I LOOKED AT CORRECT. MY SEATING DEPTH IS 2.250"



If you want book info, I would go with either the powder manufacturer's recommendation (Hodgdon's website only lists the Speer SP in 55gr) or the bullet manufacturer's recommendation which shows 26.4 gr. as the MAX.

I probably wouldn't use a reloading equipment manufacturer's recommendation but that's just me. (Oops! is that preaching?)

I don't have a Lee manual. Does the Lee manual state specifically the 55gr Vmax FB or does it just list 55gr. bullet? The reason I ask is that different bullets even though they are the same weight have different shapes and ballistic coefficents that will cause different pressures with the same powder/brass/primer combination.

Investing in more than one manual is always a good idea. Often confusing and not necessarily any more accurate but still a good idea. (Sorry, more preaching!)

I could never get more than 26 gr of Varget in a .223 case using Win/Fed/Lapua even with a drop tube but I read that you can with LC.

I have found accuracy nodes are most often back a little from max charges.

I think the consensus here is that no book is going to tell you that a certain load is 100% OK in your rifle.

Good luck.
 
thanks, I am sticking with the 26 grain and then considering a different powder, I want to stick with the extreme powders since they are allegedly more stabile in temp change.
 
Picks, this is copied from the Sierra manual for 55 grain bullets.
Powder/Velocity 2700 2800 2900 3000 3050 3100

VARGET----------25.1 25.8 26.5 27.2



I tried varget in my 20" Dtech AR with so so results with the 50-55 grainers. Also tried H322, I found best accuracy with n133 followed closely by AA2230.
 
I believe I am using 27.5 grs varget with a 55 gr bullet. I have to pour each by hand. It has been my experience that some of the max loads in reloading manuals are a little anemic. Comparing old reloading manuals to new ones you can see how they have become more conservative over the years. Can't blame them with our sue happy society.

Using a chrony is a real eye opener. Just work the load up carefully looking for any signs of excessive pressure.

Good hunting
 
I shoot the 55 gr. V-max with 26.7 grains of Varget in my Bushmaster Predator and it is a tackdriver shooting sub 1" groups at 200 yds.
 
I have several manuals that list 26.9-27.5 gr Varget as maximum. I use Varget in my 308 but have never tried for 223. If you wish to try another extreme powder, try Benchmark. I have had great success with my Bushy Varminter and Tikka Varmint with Benchmark, using bullet weights from 40gr to 55gr. I eventually settled on 55gr Sierra over 24.8gr Benchmark and Rem BR primers. Not peaching, answering the Extreme powder question.
 
I've settled on 26 gr of Varget and 50 Ballistic Tips for my 16" ARs that we use for coyotes. Both are 16" 1/9 barrels and the groups at 100 yards are outstanding! My normal load for years has been 27 gr. of H335, but the Varget is just as accurate, slightly slower, and WAY less snakey in temp. extremes.
 
+1 on the BenchMark. I use it in all my 223s, Bolt and ARs alike, even my 223AI/75AMAX combo.

Great Velocity, outstanding accuracy, easy metering.

Win/Win.
 
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