6.5 Grendel vs. 6.8 SPC vs. .308

When I built my 6.8SPCII, factory ammo wasn't available for either (not really) and the 6.5 was going through all of its licensing fits, so I opted for the "more secure" choice of the 6.8, even though it supposedly had inferior ballistics to the super grendel.

Frankly, I don't think the 6.8 is lacking in the least, and if you can shoot a 6.5Grendel at 1,000yrds, you can shoot a 6.8 SPC at 1,000yrds (neither being great choices for such use anyway).

I grabbed these two loads off of Midway, assuming flat based spitzers for both. The 6.8 SPC represented here is a 115grn bullet at 2500fps, nothing out of the ordinary for a 6.8 load, the SSA load. The 6.5 Grendel is a 123grn bullet running 2405fps, the Alexander Arms load...

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Personally, there's no real advantage in my book.

Granted, that's only comparing 2 loads, but frankly, I don't really care. There aren't loads out there that are THAT much different than a 123grn grendel at 2400 and a 115grn SPC at 2500fps. Both are perfectly reasonable representatives for their respective cartridge, and both are FACTORY loads.

Sure, the Grendel IS flatter shooting, no doubt, but is that improvement really worth anything in the real world? No, I don't believe so.

It's like debating the difference in a .30-06 and a .308. They'll both do the job. No, they're not identical in ballistics, but the difference in moot. No target, nor game species will ever be able to tell a difference between the two (neglecting that the 6.8 will leave bigger holes in the paper...).
 
dcase,

I dont know where to start. Your post falsely gives one the impression that you will be objective and not use the tricks and gimmicks promoters of 6.5G&6.8SPC use to sell rifles, but then you promptly promulgate the same trash.

Your analogy is not an honest one because:

1. You chose loading of 6.5grendel and 6.8SPC that are at the high end of velocity and BC to compare against a ho-hum 308 load.

2. You also managed to use a source(s) that leads to 6.5grendel and 6.8 being priced lower than the 308 bammo. You know well that these exotic ar-15 calibers, if a given store carries them, will be priced higher than most 308 offerings.

3. You also make no mention of bullet & component availabilty, and likelyhood of a hunter finding these exotic calibers at local stores on a hunting trip if they forget their ammo.

4. You dont go into reloading nor do you mention the fact that all 308 components are cheaper and more widely availabel than the 6.8/6.5 family.

THe fact is that the 6.5G/6.8SPC or any other AR-15 caliber are NOT ballistically superior to the .308. You may find loading in either caliber that will have superior ballistics to each other, but generally, the 308 is ballistically superior to the AR-15 cartridges you mentioned, even when launched from short barrels (16").
 
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The 6.5 can fly faster and further but for those who dont have 500 yrd to 1000yrd shots go with the 6.8 I have a 6.8 and unless I buy from the internet I cant get ammo. So I would hate to go with the 6.5. The Grendal can shoot but out to 300 yrds no better. Like I said 6.8 ammo is scarce so good luck with the 6.5 and for deer hunting the 6.8 works great. Now on the military side of things the 6.8 is for 16inch barrels or shorter. Meaning the militarys average 14inch barrels. The shorter the barrel the better the 6.8 works. The reason why the military looked so hard at it was because it just worked. Most combat operations are in urban areas now. The furthest your going to probably shoot is 300 meters. Now would it be nice to have the all around weapon. Well yes. but were talking about our cheap [beeep] goverment. They wouldnt even get the 6.8. I guess my point here is that by your article it seems you are bashing the 6.8. The question is have you even shot any of these weapons? Do you know the recoil for these weapons? There has to be a reason why everyone is choosing the 6.8 over the Grendal. Unless you think its just some big [beeep] conspiracy to get the Grendal out of buisness. I dont know like I said it seems to me like your bashing the 6.8 but there has to be a reason why we all like it so much
 
Originally Posted By: cmil84The 6.5 can fly faster and further but for those who dont have 500 yrd to 1000yrd shots go with the 6.8 I have a 6.8 and unless I buy from the internet I cant get ammo. So I would hate to go with the 6.5. The Grendal can shoot but out to 300 yrds no better. Like I said 6.8 ammo is scarce so good luck with the 6.5 and for deer hunting the 6.8 works great. Now on the military side of things the 6.8 is for 16inch barrels or shorter. Meaning the militarys average 14inch barrels. The shorter the barrel the better the 6.8 works. The reason why the military looked so hard at it was because it just worked. Most combat operations are in urban areas now. The furthest your going to probably shoot is 300 meters. Now would it be nice to have the all around weapon. Well yes. but were talking about our cheap [beeep] goverment. They wouldnt even get the 6.8. I guess my point here is that by your article it seems you are bashing the 6.8. The question is have you even shot any of these weapons? Do you know the recoil for these weapons? There has to be a reason why everyone is choosing the 6.8 over the Grendal. Unless you think its just some big [beeep] conspiracy to get the Grendal out of buisness. I dont know like I said it seems to me like your bashing the 6.8 but there has to be a reason why we all like it so much

NOT AT ALL, I am not bashing the 6.8. Yes I do own and shoot several AR-15 (7.62, 5.56, 6.5, .450 but not the 6.8)calibers and AR-10. You hit some good points but if I could ONLY get ONE to serve as many needs as possible it would be the 6.5 for me.
 
I have been following along reading comments (many good ideas, some not so helpful) and I feel that if you are looking for info on what AR-15 (or upper) to get you may be lost at this point. Let me get back to the “purpose”:

1. If you are on a limited budget (maybe only able to purchase one) and looking for an AR-15 (or to add an upper to your existing platform) to serve as many needs as possible (cost per rd, recoil, range, accuracy, weight, small to medium sized game), I think the 6.5 Grendel is the best choice.

With that said I am NOT saying:

1. It replaces or is better than a .308. My point was to ONLY state that one could get similar range and energy to a .308 on an AR-15 platform. That was something I was looking for. RANGE (effective)on an AR.

2. The 6.8 SPC is BAD, I just think you can serve MORE needs for less money ($12.50 a box of 20) with a longer possible range. I am sure the 6.8 SPC is an excellent round. As someone pointed out, ALL guns are great. I have a 7.62x39 AR and love it. That is a GREAT round but is limited.

I can’t spell (lol), it was NOT the Geneva Convention that is the reason NATO does not use HP, you CAN kill deer with A-MAX (maybe not the best in some opinions), deer are NOT human and have different anatomy, HP are destructive rounds to flesh (as are all bullets), different bullets for different applications, Grendel rounds are ONLY offered in HP (wolfgold) and A-MAX (Hornady) from the manufacture that I have been able to find and PURCHASE (that was my point – which would I rather use on a hunt, wolf or hornady), 6.5 Grendel will NOT replace a .308 but gives an AR-15 user a good alternative. If I could only afford to purchase ONE AR-15 to serve ALL my needs it would be the 6.5 Grendel. THAT WAS MY POINT.

Lets try to keep our accuracy and stay on target for those looking for helpful info on a weapons purchase. I wrote this for a friend who likes to take his daughter deer hunting and was looking for an alternative to the 5.56 and is on a limited budget.

This is ONLY my opinion!
 
Originally Posted By: Tx Shooterdcase,

I dont know where to start. Your post falsely gives one the impression that you will be objective and not use the tricks and gimmicks promoters of 6.5G&6.8SPC use to sell rifles, but then you promptly promulgate the same trash.

Your analogy is not an honest one because:

1. You chose loading of 6.5grendel and 6.8SPC that are at the high end of velocity and BC to compare against a ho-hum 308 load.

2. You also managed to use a source(s) that leads to 6.5grendel and 6.8 being priced lower than the 308 bammo. You know well that these exotic ar-15 calibers, if a given store carries them, will be priced higher than most 308 offerings.

3. You also make no mention of bullet & component availabilty, and likelyhood of a hunter finding these exotic calibers at local stores on a hunting trip if they forget their ammo.

4. You dont go into reloading nor do you mention the fact that all 308 components are cheaper and more widely availabel than the 6.8/6.5 family.

THe fact is that the 6.5G/6.8SPC or any other AR-15 caliber are NOT ballistically superior to the .308. You may find loading in either caliber that will have superior ballistics to each other, but generally, the 308 is ballistically superior to the AR-15 cartridges you mentioned, even when launched from short barrels (16").

That is your opinion. How can I be stating someting false if by your own words I did not "go into it"?
Yes, .308 is more available and cheap (for surplus), no I dont re-load, no I did not mention "bullet availability" however do a little research on availability of 6.5 bullets. Sorry friend, you missed the target completely! This was simply MY opinion as a avid shooter and hunter. OPINIONS ARE NEVER "FALSE".
 
I've wondered for a couple of years when this topic would come to this forum. Get your popcorn out, it's an endless argument. Yes, I do like my 6.8 SPCII chambered AR. Very accurate on targets, and kills coyotes dead, that's all I ask of it.
 
The guys that spent money chasing 6.5's around have always needed a reason to claim it was superior to the more widely available 6.8's. Sure, better BC's, good on ya, but frankly, there isn't enough difference for anyone to care. It's a .270win vs. .308win debate for a whole new generation.

Some universal truths that I have seen in shooting both of these:

1) Neither is what ANYONE that actually shoots 1,000yrds would call "good for 1,000yrds", so discussing the performance at 1,000yrds is moot. If you can dope a a 6.5, you can dope a 6.8 to 1,000yrds, and neither should be your first choice anyway.

2) Either will kill a coyote to 600 without issue, farther if you can get the bullet there. Most guys can't shoot an AR well to 600yrds, and if you're talking a bolt gun, then you're dumb for owning a boltgun in either of these cartridges.

3) Either will kill a deer cleanly to 400-500yrds, but NEITHER is a good choice for 600yrd deer hunting. The energy of BOTH has dropped low enough at 600yrds that you're talking about a VERY marginal cartridge.

4) Either of them really needs to be reloaded to optimize/maximize performance. The factory loads for both rounds are rather modestly loaded. In general, factory ammo for the 6.8spc can be found anywhere in the country, but it IS scarce, and there won't be much selection. Factory ammo for the 6.5 is more scarce. I have seen several stores around the country that carried 6.8 and not 6.5, and I hae seen several stores that carry both, but have yet to see a store that carried 6.5 and did not have 6.8. Where there is 6.5, there is 6.8, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

5) Both have NON-CARTRIDGE-SPECIFIC length issues. Unless you have a .264LBC chamber, you'll want longer throat in a standard 6.5 G, and you'll want longer mags in a 6.8. This isn't specific to either cartridge, it's just a factor of AR-15's. They're very short actions and magazines. Long .223's have issues, the WSSM's have issues, etc etc.

6) Most importantly, nobody really cares anymore. It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Pick which one you want and get on with your day.
 
Im in the process of building my own 6.5 Grendel and decided to go this way:

Precision Firearms 6.5 Grendel Upper

But I am having them do things just a little differently. I will be putting on a non-recipricating charging handle from American Spirit Arms on instead of the upper they are advertising on here.

Im so excited that I could pee!
 

Well said!! While I am on the 6.5 grendal bandwagon right now, I agree that both have their merits in an AR platform. Pick one and be happy!

Originally Posted By: VarminterrorThe guys that spent money chasing 6.5's around have always needed a reason to claim it was superior to the more widely available 6.8's. Sure, better BC's, good on ya, but frankly, there isn't enough difference for anyone to care. It's a .270win vs. .308win debate for a whole new generation.

Some universal truths that I have seen in shooting both of these:

1) Neither is what ANYONE that actually shoots 1,000yrds would call "good for 1,000yrds", so discussing the performance at 1,000yrds is moot. If you can dope a a 6.5, you can dope a 6.8 to 1,000yrds, and neither should be your first choice anyway.

2) Either will kill a coyote to 600 without issue, farther if you can get the bullet there. Most guys can't shoot an AR well to 600yrds, and if you're talking a bolt gun, then you're dumb for owning a boltgun in either of these cartridges.

3) Either will kill a deer cleanly to 400-500yrds, but NEITHER is a good choice for 600yrd deer hunting. The energy of BOTH has dropped low enough at 600yrds that you're talking about a VERY marginal cartridge.

4) Either of them really needs to be reloaded to optimize/maximize performance. The factory loads for both rounds are rather modestly loaded. In general, factory ammo for the 6.8spc can be found anywhere in the country, but it IS scarce, and there won't be much selection. Factory ammo for the 6.5 is more scarce. I have seen several stores around the country that carried 6.8 and not 6.5, and I hae seen several stores that carry both, but have yet to see a store that carried 6.5 and did not have 6.8. Where there is 6.5, there is 6.8, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

5) Both have NON-CARTRIDGE-SPECIFIC length issues. Unless you have a .264LBC chamber, you'll want longer throat in a standard 6.5 G, and you'll want longer mags in a 6.8. This isn't specific to either cartridge, it's just a factor of AR-15's. They're very short actions and magazines. Long .223's have issues, the WSSM's have issues, etc etc.

6) Most importantly, nobody really cares anymore. It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Pick which one you want and get on with your day.
 
I do shoot the 6.8 SPC and it's proven fine for deer and coyotes at the ranges at which I normally shoot. I've never shot the 6.5 Grendel, and probably never will. This is a little like the old Ford versus Chevy argument, and I say whatever trips your trigger is the way to go. The original post compared the 6.8 and 6.5, along with the 308, and that's like comparing apples and oranges. The 308 would be a far superior round than either of those two, and there's really no comparison. Now, having said all that, if I want long range performance, I'm going to be shooting a bolt action rifle, and probably using different cartridges, although the 308 would definitely work.
 
I am sure someone will disagree but I am sure you can make a lighter ar(6.5 or 6.8) than any .308. That being said if you do applets to apples (barrel length& comparable loads) the 6.5 will be a clear winner once you pass 4-500 yds.
 
I too had this decision to make, I even had the opportunity to load, shoot and hunt with all three... in the end the Grendel won..
 
And besides which, the name "6.5 Grendel" just sounds much more cool than "6.8 SPC".
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Seriously, I've had the Grendel bug for a couple of years (it's been in remission but is starting to come back to life), but have never really considered the 6.8 until now. I think I'll do some more researching before I start building, but then again there's that name...
 
for me it comes to yards and availability.

where i hunt, a 300 yard shot is unheard of - so grendel and spc are neck and neck
10x more things are available in spc so that is what i am leaning towards.
plus who cares that you have a 308? people perk up when you have an "odd" cartridge

and i don't want the weight of a ar10
 
I just got into a .264 LBC only because I happened on a brand new BHW AR barrel. Picked up a 7.62 x 39 BCG. Only thing specific I need is dies & a mag. Everything else is standard AR15 stuff. Went to my LGS, lo and behold found 150 pcs of 6.5 Grendel brass. I too have zero interest in the weight of an AR 10 or the brass forming hassles of the WSSM's. Like many, just trying to get all I can out of the AR15 platform. Sometimes, the decision gets made for you.
 
This thread has been going for some time now! So here's to keeping a dying horse up and running
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I just sold my AR10 .308 in order to fund a Grendel build. I'm in N. Idaho and intend to hunt wolves this year with an AR. The .308 was just too heavy for a hunting rifle. Sniper's will carry big heavy rifles, but that's a different game. For a hunting AR I decided that the Grendel was the sweet spot between the anemic (at longer ranges on game) 5.56 and the heavier but harder hitting .308 in the AR10 platform. I'll be keeping my bolt .308 for long range plinking.

The Grendel will never replace the .308 ballistically, but guns are like optics, it's all about compromise.

If I want to chase some elk, it's going to be my .300wm, and not my Grendel. But there's just something about the AR that makes me smile, and that's why I want to hunt with it. Then again, I really like my Marlin Cowboy 45-70 with it's 26" long octagon barrel, but that's a whole other story.
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Horses for courses I've heard said, and I think that sums it up well.
 


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