62gr TSX on steel

Displayed Name

Displayed Name

New member
Got out with a buddy this evening to shoot the gong at 388yds. It's over an inch thick steel but I don't believe it to be hardened steel.

I was quite surprised that the 62gr TSX(3000fps) only made tiny, tiny point divets in the steel.

Military 62gr full metal jacket ammo at 3380fps made nice round craters as did 80gr VLD's at 3300fps.

Is this a function of velocity or the fact that the TSX is solid copper or possibly a combination of them both? Have others found similar results?
 
ok,well I have heard that higher velocity rounds punch steel better it's just that the difference was dramatic. I was surpised in the difference in the 2 62gr .223 loads. I guess 400fps was the major factor.
 
Hit the steel again at 390yds to test a higher velocity round. Using a .22-250 and 55gr NBT's at 3600+fps.

These faster rounds had almost no effect on the steel where the 62gr .223 full metal jacket ammo made large craters. The 55gr BT had the least effect of the 4 bullets and was the fastest of them all. However, they did make the loudest noise of the 4.

Looks as though it is a two part equation with velocity and bullet construction.
 
Senctional Density combined with momentum is what will punch through steel. You have the senctional density to start with, but as soon as you hit the steel your TSX is mushrooming dropping the SD. Same story with the BT they are just blowing up and even though they are faster they do not have the momentum.
 
dog is on the right track but it's not really sectional density...


For example... it's easier to punch a knife blade through a peice of carpet than it is a dull brick through the same carpet. If that's not "related" enough for you, do the same thing to a beer can. The sharp knife easily penetrates the can while the much heavier, same speed brick doesn't break through the can but bends it because of more energy transfer. As a bullet mushrooms it's surface area contacting the steel is greater (blunt brick v/s sharp knife point), hence creating greater resistance. Velocity is still key to hurting steel, but a bullet contacting the smallest amount of surface area meets least resistance= more damage to that small area.
 
A brick may have more momentum, but doesn't have nearly as high of sectional density. Lets assume your are smashing the beer can with the small side of the brick to give it as high of a sectional density as possible. A standard US brick on its smallest face is 102x57mm giving an area of 5,418mm^2 or 519cm^2. A butter knife from my kitchen is 0.8mm wide and measuring generously on your side length to the "point" of about 5mm giving an area of 4mm^2 or 0.04cm^2. That means the area of the brick is about 1355 time greater. The sectional density for the brick (4.5 lbs) would be 0.87g/cm^2. Guessing at 1 ounce for a butter knife would give a sectional density of 708g/cm^2. This is with a butter knife not a sharp knife as you suggested. If it is a sharp knife it is going to reduce the area considerably and thus raise the sectional density by a lot. Velocity is not the sole key to penetration, but it is a part of it because it is half of the equation for momentum.

It is momentum and sectional density that is needed for penetration, not velocity, Take a 50BMG for example. No one will argue that it will penetrate the [beeep] out of some steel. It is a relatively slow round by comparison to a 223 (~280fps for a 750gr round) but has almost double the sectional density of a 55gr 0.224" bullet and a [beeep] of a lot more momentum.
 
Ok then, take a Fmj and a tsx of the same SD and tell me what the difference looks like on steel. It's more about bullet construction and intended purpose. One is a hunting bullet designed to expand and cause massive tissue damage immediately after impact(expansion dispersing energy), whilst a FMJ is designed to allow maximum penetration(no expansion per se,retaining velocity) without concern for tissue damage.

Furthermore, you will not get "momentum" without velocity. I.E. ft/lbs energy is a calculation of speed/weight, which has nothing to do with SD or BC for that matter. The only time these come into play is calculating trajectory.
No matter the range, bullet construction will dictate results of impact.

Neither a butter knife, nor brick will penetrate anything without velocity. Without velocity, there is no retained energy. Without retained energy no damage can be imparted by a projectile.

Coleridge has it right, speed and bullet selection.

A 62gr pill is a 62gr pill. Same amount of energy at the muzzle if the same velocity no matter what. Friction will change that down range, but that is the difference in bullet styles ie, BC. Contruction will change the action of the pill at impact at equal ranges/velocities.

Back at the OP. I will tell you that a 75gr tsx out of my 25-06 will punch right through 1/2" steel @ 100. Not sure about FmJ in the same as I have no use for them. Like Pahntr760 stated, speed has a lot to do with it.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dogmessiahA brick may have more momentum, but doesn't have nearly as high of sectional density. Lets assume your are smashing the beer can with the small side of the brick to give it as high of a sectional density as possible. A standard US brick on its smallest face is 102x57mm giving an area of 5,418mm^2 or 519cm^2. A butter knife from my kitchen is 0.8mm wide and measuring generously on your side length to the "point" of about 5mm giving an area of 4mm^2 or 0.04cm^2. That means the area of the brick is about 1355 time greater. The sectional density for the brick (4.5 lbs) would be 0.87g/cm^2. Guessing at 1 ounce for a butter knife would give a sectional density of 708g/cm^2. This is with a butter knife not a sharp knife as you suggested. If it is a sharp knife it is going to reduce the area considerably and thus raise the sectional density by a lot. Velocity is not the sole key to penetration, but it is a part of it because it is half of the equation for momentum.

It is momentum and sectional density that is needed for penetration, not velocity, Take a 50BMG for example. No one will argue that it will penetrate the [beeep] out of some steel. It is a relatively slow round by comparison to a 223 (~280fps for a 750gr round) but has almost double the sectional density of a 55gr 0.224" bullet and a [beeep] of a lot more momentum.

grin.gif
bored.gif
huh.gif


While I can follow you with your reason (& math), I wasn't really trying (or need) to calculate a brick v/s a knife through a beer can. It really has small relevance. I was only trying to say (by example) something pointy "sticks" through something better than something blunt (yes it is by creating more pressure per square inch). It's shouldn't be that hard to understand. Penetration (through momentum) on game & most media is WWWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYY different subject than penetrating steel (all the resistance is immediate).
 
Originally Posted By: travjc
I will tell you that a 75gr tsx out of my 25-06 will punch right through 1/2" steel @ 100.


Must be mild steel.
 
Originally Posted By: fw707Must be mild steel.

Very... The AR500 I got from JC didn't even have a ding, just knocked off the paint @ 100 yards with a 110 gr TSX out of a 300Win mag. 223 53gr TSX didn't do any better. He's got good stuff!
 
I would say that steel and most media is not a way different subject. I would say all of the physics at play still follows the same rules. I will agree with you that the area metplate will make a difference.
 
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: travjc
I will tell you that a 75gr tsx out of my 25-06 will punch right through 1/2" steel @ 100.


Must be mild steel.

Sure was.
 
The reason your 62gr FMJ's (M855) did more to the steel plate were because they have a steel penetrator where the Barnes does not. If you take standard FMJ's and run them against steel, the results will be similiar to the Barnes.

Velocity in this case, doesn't really have anything to do with damage to the plate.
 
Back
Top