870 - 12 Gauge w/ #4 Buck Shot

Prime Time

New member
I need some real help with your experience using this set up. This is my set up:
Remington 870 12 Ga. 3 1/2"
I was using the Factory "Full Choke"
I was using Federal #4 Buck Shot 3"
I was shooting at 30 yards.

Ok this setup with Turkey Load with place most of the shot in a paper plate. I was getting around a 3' Dia. or more pattern with #4 Buck!

I had a friend of mine go and grab his newer 870 and he got the same results. So it's not my gun.

What kind of a pattern should I expect at 30 yards? How far can a person shoot with Buck Shot? What can I do to help with this problem? Different brand shells? Different Choke?

Thanks - Prime Time
 
Try different chokes. Some folks say that a more open choke will pattern bigger shot better. My patterning showed that modified was better than full, but not by much. (Yes, with 4 buck)

Jim
 
Thanks... That thought also crossed my mind and I will give it a try this next weekend. We hunt with a group of 4 and one person is our Shotgun guy and he sits in the thicker cover on the downwind side of our sets (if an area like this is present.) Last year he missed a coyote at around 30 yards so I decided to pattern my gun and let him get some confidence. Well to my surprise there was no pattern. It was the worst thing I'd every seen. You could see pellets hitting the ground below the target which was at least 3' of the ground. This was only at 30 yards!

What should I expect to see with Buck Shot? % of pellets in "X" Diameter Circle
 
Shotguns, loads, and chokes are as fickle as a teenage girl. You'll have to try some different chokes until you find the "sweet spot" for your rig. In my testing of six chokes through my Benelli M1S90, the modified was alright, improved modfied much better, factory full blew the pattern and was terrible - worse than improved cylinder, however, the Kick's .660" was absolutely astounding. Solid to fifty+ yards with the Federal Premium no. Four Buck in three inch. That Federal load outshot Winchester and Remington in my Benelli and Remington 870, as well as my Dad's Mossberg. Some experimentation should give you a reliable coyote killer to fifty yards with the right combination. For more info, use the search feature and type in "shotgun" or "chokes", you'll get a ton of past discussion regarding this from the archives.
 
I have an 870 express and an 870 Super Mag. The express has a 21" short barrel and the Super Mag has a 26" barrel. Both will keep all of a load of 3"Federal Premium "lead" BB's in a 30" circle at 30 yds with a standard full choke. I shoot BB because the I had a Gray Fox run in on me close when I was loaded with #4 buck. "Yuck"!! I wasn't able to salvage any of the little feller. It made me sick. The BB's will kill anything inside of 30yds that the #4 buck will and you don't have to sew any holes. The #4 leaves a bunch of open air in your pattern at longer distances also.
 
So what should I expect for a healthy pattern size? I'm used to shooting turkey load were at 30 yards most of my shot will hit a paper plate. I've never Patterned Buck Shot before, so what should I expect?

I guess what I'm asking is what IS a good pattern with Buck Shot or Lead BB Shot? Maybe I'm just expecting to much from my gun and shells. Maybe I don't need nearly as many BB's hitting the coyote as I think.

Later - Prime Time
 
Prime Time
Last year I purchased a Pattern Master choke tube, one for my 870 and one for the Bretta 303 and what a difference this made.
Here is what I get from each gun:
870
3", #4BK (Federal)
30" cirlce at 40 yds.
29 pellets into circle out of 42

Bretta
Same load and distance
31 pellets into circle out of 42

I use 3" BB only if shots are going to be under 30 yrds. I have lost 3 to many coyotes using BB shot, so now it's almost always a #4 BK.
---------------
Coyote Control
 
OK, so maybe I'm just expecting to much. After patterning Turkey Loads for years it just looked horrable, but we are talking a LOT less shot. So how many Pellet's does it take to bring down a coyote? Will only one in the chest do the job? Also when a coyote comes in what should the center of aim be? Behind the front leg like a deer, or right on the front shoulder, or at the head/neck area?

Thanks again - PT
 
Save your money on those choke tubes and get the right shell for what you want. I'll bet you've been shooting the unplated non-buggered cheap federals, even the premium aint that hot in mine but everybody brags about em. Anyway, get some 3" Winchester supreme plated and buffered #4 buck and see if there isn't a world of diference in what you're getting now. Even the 2 3/4" winchester stuff shoots really good, don't know why. I wouldn't constrict that four buck more than .675. Shot lots of paper this summer, so take it for what it's worth, just trying to save ya a lot of time and money.
 
PrimeTime,
You're a turkey hunter right? Many experts claim that you need 5 solid hits on the bone in a turkey head/neck for solid kills. I subscribe to the same theory for no. Four Buck, 4-5 solid vitals hits for solid kills. A no. Four Buck pellet is a .243 caliber ball that weighs about 20 grains if I remember correctly. A good hit with a plated Four Buck pellet broadside will penetrate completely across the chest cavity of a coyote. Five of those will wreck havic inside a critters chest.

In my testing I took blank newspaper roll (butchers wrap works as well) and stapled it at the fifty yard (50 yd.) target stand at my gun range. I put this blank paper in a 36" x 36" square. I then put a 3" orange sticky dot aiming point in the center of this square by drawing a line across the diagonals to easily find the center. A piece of string 4" long with a pencil tied onto it was used to make a 8" circle around the center of the aiming dot. Another 16" inch circle was scribed around the dot using an 8" string. That's my target set-up.

I place my shotgun on the bench at the fifty yard mark on a rest just as if I were sighting in a rifle. I load one round and carefully and slowly crush the trigger aiming as precisely as possible at the orange aiming dot. Then I walk down and record the number of pellets in the 3" orange aiming dot, the 8" inch and the 16" inch circles. Total the numbers to get a count of shot striking the center of the aiming point knowing that with a three inch .12 gauge no. Four Buck you fired 41 pellets at the target. Look closely at pattern dispersion and if the pattern is hitting centered around your aiming point. I like a center dense pattern and of course it must be hitting to point of aim. Record the shell information, carefully pull this paper down and set up another identical to it. I shoot five of each type of load, five of Federal Premium, five of Winchester Supreme, five of Remington Premier, ect... This gives a decent comparison and an ideal of consistency.

As to what to expect... I don't know how the others guns perform. From memory my Benelli M1S90 with the Kick's .660" Gobblin' Thunder choke and Federal Premium 3" inch .12 gauge magnum loads of no. Four Buck places 4-5 pellets in the 3" orange center aiming dot, 10-11 in the 8" circle, and 22-24 inside the 16" circle at the fifty yard line. My patterns are center dense, round and even, and right on the point of aim. My Dad's Mossberg 500 with a Hastings .660" tube does nearly was well. From experience both these rigs are sure killers to 50+ yards.
 
I got a patternmaster choke tube for my 870 supermag and have been very impressed with it. It doesn't seem that great with the smaller shot but is extremely tight with larger shot sizes. It will shoot BB shot - 000 buck very well. #4 buck will shoot better out of the pattern master than any other choke I have tried. I have also used the pattern masters with BB hevi shot and was impressed by the results. I can't wait to check out some of the new dead coyote T size hevi shot. They look to have a lot of promise.
 
Thanks for the help. I'll try the Winchester Supremes this weekend and see what I find out. I'll also use the circle method mentioned by GC and figure out what patterns the best.
 
Well here is the deal. I could not get a better pattern with a Modified Choke. At 20 yards I had a really awesome pattern, but out to 40 it was a bust. I noticed that at 20 yards most of the shot was on the edge of the circle pattern. (More dense on the outer edge and less dense in the center. So out at 40 yards a lot of the shot missed a 30" x 24" sheet of cardboard paper I was using.

Anyway I could not find any Winchester Supreme 4 Buck or Heavy Shot Dead Coyote. So I picked up a box of Federal Tungsten-Iron 2 3/4" BB this stuff was on sale for like $4.00 per box of 10. So I thought why not... How do you feel this stuff will work on coyotes and what would the range be? I'll be patterning this out Christmas Eve. Also could I try shooting this out of an Undertaker Turkey Choke Tube?

Later - PT
 
You can get the dead coyote from Cabelas on line, that's the only place I know you can get it.
All of the other non toxic shot is inferior to lead therefore the other stuff you bought will not kill as far a lead or heavi-shot will.
 
Federal Tungsten-Iron 2 3/4" BB

I'm wondering if anyone has ever shot this load on coyotes. It was on a major sale at Gander Mountian so I picked up a box.

What range should I limit myself to with BB?

The reason I'm asking all this is because I'm heading out to South Dakota between Christmas and New Years to visit some family and friends and we are going to be doing a lot of coyote hunting. I usually use my .222, but last year we had a lot of CLOSE incounters that were missed with rifles and shotguns would have been much better. The shotgun we did have contained 00 Buck and missed it's mark on one coyote.
 
Prime Time,

I used a Mossberg 12ga 32" barrel 3"mag Goose-Gun with a "Dedicated Full-Choke", many years ago on yotes. I always used #4 & #3 Rem.(Lead)(Buffered-Buckshot). IMO, Buffered non-plated shot will deform less, and converge in a narrowed barrel/choke, and still hold a good pattern. Killed many coyotes @ 70-80yrds. Shot(1) at 100yrds x2-#4, dropped him at 110yrds x1-#3. I prefered unplated, as it seemed to cut through their fur and hide better. I patterned my gun on a 3/4" piece of plywood at 50,75 and 100yrds. My pattern @ 100yrds was roughly 15' diameter.
 
At one time I was employed in the aerial depredation business with the USDA. We were using Rem. 870's(early days) and Benelli M3's. The round of choice was 2 3/4 Mag Federal Premium Plated BB shot. We tried alot of other rounds and found that the plated BB shot penetrated the thick fur and vitals more readily than larger and non plated shot. On some coyotes we actually found the larger shot balled up in the fur and only penetrated to just under the hide. I personally experienced far more crippled coyotes using buck shot than I ever did using BB's. At times we would kill as many as 100 coyotes a day so I guess I could say that I have a little experience at killing coyotes with shot guns although not everyone has the benefit of chasing coyotes with a turbine powered helicopter to get in for that close shot. I have found this load to be quite effective out to 40 yars or so. I think all of our guns were just out of the box full choked guns.
 
Thanks guys. This Tungsten-Iron stuff is buffered, but un-platted. I'll be giving it a go come mid next week. I'll let you know if I get a shot with it. One area we hunt is very thick and the coyotes get close, so in this area I'll be putting down the rifle and grabbing the shotgun.
 


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