9mm vs .45ACP
- Thread starter Hidalgo
- Start date
kam582
New member
Over the years I have carried a .38, .357, 9mm, .45, and .40 S&W. Right now it's a .40 S&W. You kind of had two questions in your post. Will you be comfortable with a 9 after depending on a .45, and will your wife be comfortable with a .45?
I know that I would not be real comfortable with a 9 after carrying and seeing a .40 in action. I have supervised over 5 officer involved shootings over the last 6 years and I can tell you that a .40 will generally terminate the threat fairly quickly. I have little faith in a 9 to do that well.
I carry a .40 now, because that's the rules. I am looking for a 1911 .45 cause I am getting ready to retire and will carry that once I am gone. I like the .45, especially a 1911, however I think a .40 is only a little less effective.
As far as your wife, I think the only way to answer that is to get her to a range and let her shoot both. She will tell you what she likes, and a 9 is better than nothing.
You have to remember that when we were carrying 9's, almost every PD in the country was doing the same. Now, virtually no PD is using 9's.
I know that I would not be real comfortable with a 9 after carrying and seeing a .40 in action. I have supervised over 5 officer involved shootings over the last 6 years and I can tell you that a .40 will generally terminate the threat fairly quickly. I have little faith in a 9 to do that well.
I carry a .40 now, because that's the rules. I am looking for a 1911 .45 cause I am getting ready to retire and will carry that once I am gone. I like the .45, especially a 1911, however I think a .40 is only a little less effective.
As far as your wife, I think the only way to answer that is to get her to a range and let her shoot both. She will tell you what she likes, and a 9 is better than nothing.
You have to remember that when we were carrying 9's, almost every PD in the country was doing the same. Now, virtually no PD is using 9's.
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Greg_Meyer
New member
And, since he stated:
"Since I want this to be something that the wife won't hesitate to use if the need arises, I am kinda leaning towards the 9mm because of the recoil factor. The .45 doesn't bother me at all, but she might not be comfortable with it."
and then asked in his original question,
"I guess my questions and concerns are whether or not I'll be confident with the 9mm after all these years with the ACP. I have a Colt .38 Super, but it isn't going to get drug around and beat up. She loves to shoot it, but the recoil is more tame (although more sharp) than the .45
Is this making sense? Do any of you have a 9mm that replaced a .45? Are you comfortable with the lesser powered round? "
I think we have been giving him good answers and good advice.
My answer was ... No, I have never ever "willingly" traded/chosen a 9mm as a defensive round over a .45ACP
No, I would not be as confident with a 9mm over a .45ACP
Then, I, and others, gave reasons... And, offered advice.
Specifically, I suggested he get her a "good" .38SPL revolver with Crimson Trace grips (laser) and then I suggested ammunition options and also would volunteer to privately make various suggestions as to the ammunition and other things.
"Since I want this to be something that the wife won't hesitate to use if the need arises, I am kinda leaning towards the 9mm because of the recoil factor. The .45 doesn't bother me at all, but she might not be comfortable with it."
and then asked in his original question,
"I guess my questions and concerns are whether or not I'll be confident with the 9mm after all these years with the ACP. I have a Colt .38 Super, but it isn't going to get drug around and beat up. She loves to shoot it, but the recoil is more tame (although more sharp) than the .45
Is this making sense? Do any of you have a 9mm that replaced a .45? Are you comfortable with the lesser powered round? "
I think we have been giving him good answers and good advice.
My answer was ... No, I have never ever "willingly" traded/chosen a 9mm as a defensive round over a .45ACP
No, I would not be as confident with a 9mm over a .45ACP
Then, I, and others, gave reasons... And, offered advice.
Specifically, I suggested he get her a "good" .38SPL revolver with Crimson Trace grips (laser) and then I suggested ammunition options and also would volunteer to privately make various suggestions as to the ammunition and other things.
Doubleclutch
New member
Have't ever shot a 10, but can tell you from experence that the 357 can destroy your hearing with one box of ammo if real good hearing protection is not used. A 22mag may be even worse. This is with 6" barrels. The higher velocity rounds are harder to learn/teach. The muzzle flash is also bigger in low light. Both limiting follow up shot effectivness, especially for the sometimes shooter. No sensable carry/handy, round/handgun combo is a 100% one shot stopper. So I have quit trying to force the above types to do the job. 1911 45ACP for the next 65 years........
If I can't get to a shotgun.
If I can't get to a shotgun.
Furhunter
New member
Hidalgo
Hey I was just out with my gilfriend today shooting this one. Recoil wise its a little sharp in the palm but didnt rise to bad, and shot really good for such a short barrel. The GF shot it too, and really liked it, said the same...little sharp in the palm but not enough to not shoot it again, and would love to have it in her hand bag.
Heres what I like about these, Super light, easy to carry all day on your person, small and easy to conceal. This thing will drop in the front pocket of Dockers shorts and disapear. For a woman its easy to operate, no stove pipe's, jams, safteys to get in the way. I know its not my Para P-13 that I carry this time of year, but in the summer when I wear shorts, light clothes this one gets the call. 38 Special+P
Hey I was just out with my gilfriend today shooting this one. Recoil wise its a little sharp in the palm but didnt rise to bad, and shot really good for such a short barrel. The GF shot it too, and really liked it, said the same...little sharp in the palm but not enough to not shoot it again, and would love to have it in her hand bag.
Heres what I like about these, Super light, easy to carry all day on your person, small and easy to conceal. This thing will drop in the front pocket of Dockers shorts and disapear. For a woman its easy to operate, no stove pipe's, jams, safteys to get in the way. I know its not my Para P-13 that I carry this time of year, but in the summer when I wear shorts, light clothes this one gets the call. 38 Special+P
bea175
New member
The answer to your question for a handgun for your wife is the 357 Sig with 125gr HP like the Speer GOLD DOT. Not a lot of recoil and the power or very close to the 357 mag. Very easy to control and very accurate . The Sig 239 would be a great choice. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
daveInME
New member
bottom line,
if your wife doesn't like the recoil, and develops a flinch in anticipation of it, and misses the target. it won't matter if it was a .500 S&W or a .22 short, a miss is a miss.
better to shoot something that you have confidence in then something that you don't.
just my 2 1/2 cents worth (adjusted for inflation)
if your wife doesn't like the recoil, and develops a flinch in anticipation of it, and misses the target. it won't matter if it was a .500 S&W or a .22 short, a miss is a miss.
better to shoot something that you have confidence in then something that you don't.
just my 2 1/2 cents worth (adjusted for inflation)
BroncoGlenn
New member
9mm or .45 in modern defensive loadings are both good. If you want a good 9mm 1911 platform, check out either STI or SVI.
I don't care much for the .40. It's too snappy in recoil for my likings. But to each their own.
I don't care much for the .40. It's too snappy in recoil for my likings. But to each their own.
Jim n Iowa
New member
My wife has RA in a mid stage. The weight of the gun is a big problem, so this negates the heavy's. I found a Tauris 2" in 32 H&R mag that is ported that she can shoot very well. There are 2 Federal loads for this, but I would reload if her shooting increases. I am thinking of a longer barrel, with target sights, ported, that she can shoot at the range with me with the use of a rest. The 32 mag is very close to a 38 sp.
Jim
Jim
viper
Well-known member
A 38 special 125-grain cor-bon +P has a muzzle velocity of 1125 fps with 351 Ft-lbs energy ----- 38 special with Hornadys 158 grain jhp has a velocity of 800 fps with 225 Ft-lbs energy-----A 9mm cor-bon 125 grain +P has a muzzle velocity of 1250 fps and 434 Ft-lbs of energy as written in Ammo & Ballistics 3 third edition. The lights dim your wife's scared bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-band- click -click Just exactly how does the 9mm with 15 rounds shooting 125 feet per second faster with 85 foot pounds of more energy. That can be reloaded by most people in less than 3 seconds with another 15 rounds come up short? Most communities do not have 300 lb serial rapists hooked on PCP running around wearing a ballistics vest. Again no one is arguing a 45 acp is not the weapon most of us would choose if we were going to a gun fight its a far superior gun to stop someone. But it does no good at home in the dresser because its to big and heavy for the Mrs. to carry in her purse.
Quote:
Is this making sense? Do any of you have a 9mm that replaced a .45? Are you comfortable with the lesser powered round?
Yes, I do have a 9mm that replaced a .45. I have been shooting handguns in various competitions for about 30 years. A couple of years ago I gave up the larger bore sizes because of arthritis and chronic tendonitis.
I packed a full size 1911 Les Baer for years then stopped because of the weight. Yeah, guns are supposed to be comforting, not comfortable, but sciatica (spelling) got the best of me. I switched to a lightweight commander sized gun (Kimber Pro Carry) but the timer doesn't lie and I wasn't happy with my performance shooting multiple targets while getting off the X.
I thought about a Kimber in 9mm, but one of the guys at the offices in Montana told me they were very problematic. I think it's well known in the industry that getting the 1911 platform to run reliably with some of the 9mm HP offerings can be difficult. Reliable magazines can also be an issue.
CG gives some very good advice. If you are sold on the .45 stick with it and buy your wife something more suitable for her. Ammuntion in 9mm has come a long way since the infamous FBI shootout in Florida. Most notably, the Remington 147 Golden Saber ammuntion is performing exceptionally well in ballistics gellatin and medical examiners are seeing dramatic results in human tissues. There is a lot of information available on the Web from reliable sources.
After umpteen years of shooting the 1911 and 2011 platforms almost exclusively, I settled on a Glock 19. The 9mm in the "safe action" pistols from Glock, S&W M&P, Springfield XD, etc. have a lot going for them. No external controls, nuts reliable, easy to shoot, high capacity, etc. With the right ammo, they are adequate for self defense purposes against the two legged predators.
As for the .40 Smith and Wesson, in a 1911, my arthritis can tolerate the recoil of a 230 grain .45 Hydrashock or 230 Golden Saber better than a whomp-em-stomp-em load in .40 S&W.
Is this making sense? Do any of you have a 9mm that replaced a .45? Are you comfortable with the lesser powered round?
Yes, I do have a 9mm that replaced a .45. I have been shooting handguns in various competitions for about 30 years. A couple of years ago I gave up the larger bore sizes because of arthritis and chronic tendonitis.
I packed a full size 1911 Les Baer for years then stopped because of the weight. Yeah, guns are supposed to be comforting, not comfortable, but sciatica (spelling) got the best of me. I switched to a lightweight commander sized gun (Kimber Pro Carry) but the timer doesn't lie and I wasn't happy with my performance shooting multiple targets while getting off the X.
I thought about a Kimber in 9mm, but one of the guys at the offices in Montana told me they were very problematic. I think it's well known in the industry that getting the 1911 platform to run reliably with some of the 9mm HP offerings can be difficult. Reliable magazines can also be an issue.
CG gives some very good advice. If you are sold on the .45 stick with it and buy your wife something more suitable for her. Ammuntion in 9mm has come a long way since the infamous FBI shootout in Florida. Most notably, the Remington 147 Golden Saber ammuntion is performing exceptionally well in ballistics gellatin and medical examiners are seeing dramatic results in human tissues. There is a lot of information available on the Web from reliable sources.
After umpteen years of shooting the 1911 and 2011 platforms almost exclusively, I settled on a Glock 19. The 9mm in the "safe action" pistols from Glock, S&W M&P, Springfield XD, etc. have a lot going for them. No external controls, nuts reliable, easy to shoot, high capacity, etc. With the right ammo, they are adequate for self defense purposes against the two legged predators.
As for the .40 Smith and Wesson, in a 1911, my arthritis can tolerate the recoil of a 230 grain .45 Hydrashock or 230 Golden Saber better than a whomp-em-stomp-em load in .40 S&W.
fivepaknh
New member
Quote:
Many women (and men) would be more likely to have a gun taken away from them by the time before they realize that the condition warrants deadly force. Many would be caught in those moments of indecision, having second thoughts about killing somebody.
kelbro,
Can you please tell me where you're reading this stuff? Can you give any real cases where a bad guy disarmed the victim and then used the gun on them? If you can I cite 20 more cases where the intended victim effectively used their gun to stop an attacker. You must be reading off of Sarah Brady’s web site. The anti-gun crowd loved to propagate the myth that the criminals will turn our guns against us.
Many women (and men) would be more likely to have a gun taken away from them by the time before they realize that the condition warrants deadly force. Many would be caught in those moments of indecision, having second thoughts about killing somebody.
kelbro,
Can you please tell me where you're reading this stuff? Can you give any real cases where a bad guy disarmed the victim and then used the gun on them? If you can I cite 20 more cases where the intended victim effectively used their gun to stop an attacker. You must be reading off of Sarah Brady’s web site. The anti-gun crowd loved to propagate the myth that the criminals will turn our guns against us.
BroncoGlenn
New member
Quote:
kelbro,
Can you please tell me where you're reading this stuff? Can you give any real cases where a bad guy disarmed the victim and then used the gun on them? If you can I cite 20 more cases where the intended victim effectively used their gun to stop an attacker. You must be reading off of Sarah Brady’s web site. The anti-gun crowd loved to propagate the myth that the criminals will turn our guns against us.
Spend some time reading Officer Down Memorial Page
kelbro,
Can you please tell me where you're reading this stuff? Can you give any real cases where a bad guy disarmed the victim and then used the gun on them? If you can I cite 20 more cases where the intended victim effectively used their gun to stop an attacker. You must be reading off of Sarah Brady’s web site. The anti-gun crowd loved to propagate the myth that the criminals will turn our guns against us.
Spend some time reading Officer Down Memorial Page
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Killmoredogs
New member
First rule is to have a gun.
Second is getting rounds on target.
Third is a pistol is a poor manstopper. Use a rifle/shotgun.
I've seen plenty of people killed with a 9mm. Bullets do weird stuff in the human body no matter how big. Shoot until the threat is no longer a threat.
Get what you wife feels comfortable with. If she is scared of it she won't use it.
If you get a 9mm 1911, most of the problems with them stem from bad mags. Springfield Armory makes the best(designed by Rob Leatham) mags.
Second is getting rounds on target.
Third is a pistol is a poor manstopper. Use a rifle/shotgun.
I've seen plenty of people killed with a 9mm. Bullets do weird stuff in the human body no matter how big. Shoot until the threat is no longer a threat.
Get what you wife feels comfortable with. If she is scared of it she won't use it.
If you get a 9mm 1911, most of the problems with them stem from bad mags. Springfield Armory makes the best(designed by Rob Leatham) mags.
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fivepaknh
New member
Quote:
Quote:
kelbro,
Can you please tell me where you're reading this stuff? Can you give any real cases where a bad guy disarmed the victim and then used the gun on them? If you can I cite 20 more cases where the intended victim effectively used their gun to stop an attacker. You must be reading off of Sarah Brady’s web site. The anti-gun crowd loved to propagate the myth that the criminals will turn our guns against us.
Spend some time reading Officer Down Memorial Page
Do you have specific links that pertain to civilians having their guns turned on them by criminals? I read some stories on that page and it was LEO’s being gunned down by bad guys, not civilians. One case was an officer gunned down, because he was mistaken for a bad guy.
What is the point you're trying to make? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Quote:
kelbro,
Can you please tell me where you're reading this stuff? Can you give any real cases where a bad guy disarmed the victim and then used the gun on them? If you can I cite 20 more cases where the intended victim effectively used their gun to stop an attacker. You must be reading off of Sarah Brady’s web site. The anti-gun crowd loved to propagate the myth that the criminals will turn our guns against us.
Spend some time reading Officer Down Memorial Page
Do you have specific links that pertain to civilians having their guns turned on them by criminals? I read some stories on that page and it was LEO’s being gunned down by bad guys, not civilians. One case was an officer gunned down, because he was mistaken for a bad guy.
What is the point you're trying to make? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
fivepaknh
New member
Ok, I just read the incident with fallen Officer Nicola Cotton. This is still the exception and not the rule. Besides, a female office is in the position where she has to try and subdue a criminal. A civilian women has noe such obligation. If trapped inn her home she can and should use deadly force before a criminal can get close enough to wrestle a gun from her.
This is a better argument for why women should not be police officers.
This is a better argument for why women should not be police officers.
Killmoredogs
New member
The point he is trying to make is; do you have the right mindset to shoot someone? Some people don't and you have to be honest with yourself if you can't. That's where the taser comes in or proper training.