Accuracy Order of Things

W

wagspe208

New member
I am not a big reloading guy. I just dabble in the winter.
? is what is the order of progression for developing loads?
Seating depth, bullet, powder charge?
Or Powder charge, bullet, seating depth?
I just loaded up 34g of varget with 52g bergers to try. I loaded 10 and will shoot 2 groups of 5.
Sound right to start?
BTW, I am .010 off the lands.
Thanks
Wags
 
I shoot 34.6 grains of Varget with 52 grain Bergers and CCI primers out of my 22-250. It generally shoots 3 shots into one hole at 100 yards. If memory serves correctly, it chronos out at 3500 FPS out of my 22" savage.
 
So, I am .010 off the lands, is that a good starting point?
If so, do I change powder charge then seating depth or seating depth, then powder?
Wags
 
In order of importance to accuracy:
1. Bullet
2. Powder and amount
3. Seating depth
4. Primer

3 and 4 are relatively unimportant compared to 1 and 2.
Even brass quality is more important than 3 and 4.

Jack
 
I dont think what your doing is a good start.

Start with a bullet/powder/primer/OAL combo.

I like to start in the middle range of loads and work my way up.

Since your working with what sounds like a 22 cal of some sort, I would work up in .5g increments.

Say the middle is 34g for example and the max is 36g, I would load 3 each at 34, 34.5, 35, 35.5, and 36. Your rifle should show a preference at one of them. You can tweak in smaller incrememnts, or change seating depths a bit to tighten things up, or do primer swaps. If that powder doesn't give you satisfactory results (under 1 MOA for me) then try another powder and do the same thing. Sometimes it takes 2-3 powders to find what your rifle really likes, sometimes you get lucky and find waht it likes the first time.

Picking 1 powder and 1 charge weight and expecting it to shoot rarely works out.
 
.010" off the lands is a good start, stay there untill you've found a good node, or where your rifle groups good within a certain powder range. Once you've found your powder recipe, then you can tweak the seating depth. Only change 1 thing at a time, that way you are somewhat controlling your known variables.
 
The reason I do things my way is it only takes 15 bullets (or 5 loads of 3 shots each) to know whether a powder/bullet combo is going to work. I'm more interested in finding the high accuracy node for my combos.

I usually start at the lands or no more then .010" off.

I have pretty good luck doing it this way. Usually I can find a 1/2-3/4 MOA load within the first 1-2 range trips and go from there.
 
My reason for reloading, besides enjoying it immensly, is to end up with a cartridge well suited to the game I'll be hunting, range I'll be hunting it at, and the general character of the area in which I'll be hunting.

So I start by picking a cartridge (which usually means picking the rifle in the safe most suited to the game to be hunted) and then the bullet to match the game at the range and in the situation I'll be hunting it.

I hunt ground hogs with a variety of rifles from .17Rem to .243Win with .22 Hornet, .223Rem, and .22-250Rem in between. The choice depends on when and where I'll be hunting.

With the bullet picked I use the Sinclair tool to measure COL with the bullet touching then back off to 0.020". I always start with 0.020" jump. I do that for several reasons. First, with 0.020" jump I can be pretty sure that I won't end up touching the lands. Unintentionally touching the lands totally screws up the load development process because it causes very erratic pressure behavior. Untentionally jamming the bullet into the rifling at near max loads can cause truly alarming pressure spikes.

So, until I've made friends with the rifle and bullet, I stay backed off 0.020". I have found that all but one of my rifles shoots best at around 0.020" jump so that works out quite well. I haven't used any Berger bullets (though I intend to experiment with them this coming summer between ground hog hunts). I may find jump to be more important with them than it's been so far with other bullets.

Picking a powder is a complicated choice. I always look at the bullet manufacturer's manual first because that data is directly applicable to my bullet by definition. If the bullet manufacturer indicates which powder works best (Nosler and Sierra usually do) and I have it on the shelf, I'll try it first. The process for picking additional powders fi this one doesn't work acceptably is beyond the scope of this topic.

Having picked the powder there is the question of starting and likely max loads. Pressure varies more than one might expect based on COL and an individual rifles spent case water grain capacity. I always model prospective loads at the load manuals starting and ending loads with the manual COL and default water grain capacity in QuickLoad and note pressure and MV (which I compare to load manual MV). Then I put in my COL for the 0.020" jump, my rifles spent brass water grain capacity and adjust the powder charge range to match the values achieved with load manual charge weights.

I always run an initial screening test that covers the full weight range in the load manual. I've frequently found excellent performing loads in the middle of the range.

I use non-magnum primers in non-magnum cartridges (.22Hornet, .223Rem, .22-250, .243, .30-06, etc.). I've not found enough difference to worry about between brands for hunting loads. If I was a bench rest shooter I'd probably study primers but I'm not. I am a PBR shooter nearly all the time. Within that range primer choice doesn't seem to matter a lot.

I've used thousands of Winchester and CCI primers. They seem to be the ones most available so I use them. One exception is that I always use Remington 7-1/2 in my .17Remington to take advantage of the thicker metal in the primer cup because of the .17Rem being a higher pressure cartridge than the average.

So the order is:

Cartridge
Bullet @ 0.020" jump
Powder
Primer

Fitch
 
Unless you are talking about BR shooting at 1000 yards, try varying your powder charge by .5 grain +/- and see how relatively unimportant powder amount is concerning accuracy at normal hunting distances. Shoot one exact, one +.5 and one -.5 at 100 yards. If you have not tried it, don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

IMO
1: powder brand (whichever shoots best in your gun with a specific bullet
2: consistent bullet weight
3: OAL compared to what the gun wants, not what the book says
4: powder charge
5: primers
 
Originally Posted By: wagspe208I am not a big reloading guy. I just dabble in the winter.
? is what is the order of progression for developing loads?
Seating depth, bullet, powder charge?
Or Powder charge, bullet, seating depth?
I just loaded up 34g of varget with 52g bergers to try. I loaded 10 and will shoot 2 groups of 5.
Sound right to start?
BTW, I am .010 off the lands.
Thanks
Wags

Are you loading for a 22-250?
My order is selecting the bullets I want to use. In rifles such as the 222, 223, and 222 Mag, I have decided to shoot bullets in the 40 to 52 grain weight group. I get all of the known good bullets in that weight group. I then search for a known good powder for these cartridges and bullet weights. Over time, I have saved to my hard drive every load that others use here on the Internet. I review these loads, and consult with loading manuals to insure they are safe loads. I then load up three cartridges around a selected powder/charge that is 3/4 of the way from minimum to max load, and shoot them to see how they perform. I don't start at minumum loads as they never shoot well in my rifles anyway. My success rate lately doing it that way is excellent. I've learned over the years that powder charges that are 3/4th of the way up from min to max is a good starting point. I load several different powder charges around that 3/4 amount, but never go over max as my rifles don't shooty max loads best anyway.
Primers; I use what I have..
grin.gif

Seating depth is always .010 off the lands, for load testing where I shoot single shot. If the magazine in the rifle dictates seating bullets deeper in the case, I do that later, and confirm the bullets so seated shoot just as well as my best test load.
For my 22-250, I decided that I would test only one bullet; Sierra's 55 grain HPBT.( Note here: I could have selected any other good 55 grain bullet, but decided I only wanted to shoot the 55 HPBT) After looking at about 50 different loads by guys here on the Internet shooting 55 grain bullets of any make, I decided I would test two powders: Benchmark and Varget. I chose 32.6 grains of Benchmark, and 35.5 grains of Varget for my initial tests. Both of those loads shot so well that I didn't need to do any more load development. The Benchmark load shot 3 shots into a 1/4" groups at 100 yards and the Varget load shot a 3/8" group. I used a 36x scope to do the load testing with the 22-250. So, my point in all of this is, do a whole lot of research before dropping the first powder charge from your measure.
Another quick example. I bought a new FN Model 70 in 7-08 last year. I wanted to shoot 140 grain Nosler Partitions only. That bullet shoots extremly well in 7x57 rfles I have. Powder is H-414. For the 7x57's, 47.0 grains of this powder shoots best. I did a ratio of case capacities of the 7-08 and the 7x57, then scaled the powder charge for the 7-08 down to 45.0 grains to begin load testing on my new M-70. After zeroing the Weaver V-16 set at 16x, I immediately shot a 3 shot, 1/2" group ay 100 yards. Primers were Fed 210's, for both the 7x57 and the 7-08. It only took one range session to find a great 7-08 load with my bullet of choice.
I only shoot 3 shot groups for load testing as I'm not interested in burning up barrels shooting 5 shot groups. It's been established that 5 shot groups will always be larger than 3 shot goups by a factor of 1.33. So, if I wanted to know what a 5 shot goups would look like, I just multiply my 3 shot groups by 1.33.
 
Last edited:
Wow, thnaks for the input.
I have an HS Precision .22-250. It's main use is coyote and just shoting. My long coyote shot is only 350 yards... usually 250 or less.
I am trying the Berger 52g as many guys seem to like it.
Wags
 
Originally Posted By: wagspe208Wow, thnaks for the input.
I have an HS Precision .22-250. It's main use is coyote and just shoting. My long coyote shot is only 350 yards... usually 250 or less.
I am trying the Berger 52g as many guys seem to like it.
Wags

Must say, that Berger 52 grain bullets shoots extremely well in every 22 caliber rifle I have. They come in Varmint, and Match grades, along with both types in 50 grains. That's 4 different types of Berger bullets. I have both Match and Varmint 50 grainers, but only the Varmint bullet in 52. Never really shot berger's before last Summer, but I am a convert now. I was a 50 grain Speer TNT guy, but "Move over TNT's, there's a new kid on the block". The accuracy is unbelievable with the Berger's. Never shot any in the 22-250 however, but there is no question in my mind about how well the'll shoot; with the right powder and weight.
Let us know how they shoot for you, along with load data. About 50 years ago, I only shot Sierra's 52 and 53 grain bullets in my 22-250, and they were the best available back then. I could easily get converted into using a Berger 52 bullet today in my 22-250.
 
Originally Posted By: wagspe208 Must say, that Berger 52 grain bullets shoots extremely well in every 22 caliber rifle I have.

+1. And every other .22 cal rifle I've seen it loaded in--even a 1:7 .223. If your rifle doesn't shoot 52 gr Bergers well, you may find something it likes better but I'd be worried. Sounds to me like you are on the right track in every area.

I would certainly be careful picking any upper end powder charge and starting there as was suggested in an earlier post. Part of the idea of working up a load is to watch for pressure signs in your rifle. It is not just about finding a historically accurate load. It's about finding an accurate and safe load in your rifle. That's why every loading manual in the country tells you to start low and work up.
 
I should add that the 52 gr Berger, while extremely accurate, has not been very fur friendly for us. Quite a few large exit wounds. YMMV. But, if your not concerned with sewing hides, it will certainly make coyotes dead.
thumbup1.gif
 
[beeep] weather is not cooperating for me. I loaded up 10 rounds for 2 groups of 5. It has been so foggy it is not clear out to 100 yds. Supposed to be good Friday.
I will load up some more with .5 g more powder and see how they shoot also.
Wags
 
Finally got to shoot today.
I shot 2 groups of 5. .
.22-250
52g berger
34g varget powder
Win primers.
Now, this was new brass, just resized, flash hole, primer pocket done. (meaning it had never shot out of my rifle)
Group 1 .990
Group 2 .615
If you take the 1 flyer out of each group (meaning 4 shot groups)
group 1 .480
Group 2 .330

Probably a good starting point. Especially considering the flyers were probably shooter. I have not pulled the trigger on this weapon in a couple of years.
I will neck size same brass and add .5g of powder and see what happens.
Wags
 
Back
Top