Ackley Improved?

Howard;

Since I'm also a big fan of the 284 Winchester and the 6.5 -284 Winchester rounds, I'll try to answer your questions.

The 284 Win case was definitely a new idea for American shooters when it was introduced. Its shoulder angle is 35 degrees rather than the Ackley standard 40 degrees, but it definitely exhibited some similar characteristics such as very little body taper and a steep shoulder. It was an entirely new case design, however, and as such it was different from the AI rounds which "improved" a standard factory round.

In a sense the 284 Win was a precursor of the more modern short magnum cases in that it utilized a very strong brass case. It was originally designed to duplicate 270 Win velocities in short action semi-auto and lever Winchester rifles and required the use of a rebated rim case to get that done - the only rebated case seen in the US at that time. It never caught on very well with shooters and the case is probably more well known for the wildcats that have been built off it.

Why no factory maker ever picked up the Ackley cases maybe can be attributed to the fact that many new cartridges were being developed in roughly the same time frame as when the AI rounds were being pushed in the custom/wildcat market. Rounds like the 243 Win and 6MM Rem, all of the Win mags from 264 to 338, some of the Weatherby rounds, and others like the 7MM Rem Mag made the mid 1900's the "magnum years" and a place where lots of people spent their money. This is all just a guess on my part, but never really thought too much about why the AI chamberings never became factory. Maybe old PO had them legally locked up in some way, but I doubt it as many custom builders chambered his AI configurations. Or maybe the average rifle buyer then saw no need for the additional expense of a 30-06AI when the old stand-by 30-06 or others off the shelf got the job done efficiently. ????

Good questions. - BCB
 
usmc

i was going to answer your question on the fps but went sub-orbital ballistic on another topic. parker otto ackley was a god to me. sorry.

the difference in fps between a standard, or factory load and a 22 1/4 ai is 200-300 fps.

i also have ai's in 223, 243, and 6,5x68. all the improved versions were very close to the 2-300 fps velocity gain figures.

as far as accuracy is concerned, i found it easier to find a load with less time spent on the development end of the spectrum. are they more accurate? sometimes. are they less accurate? i haven't found one yet.

i have seen loads which i will not repeat on this forum for the stolle and panda actions that topped out at 4600 fps for the 22 1/4. but those are very strong actions and custom guns. not to be used in our remmys, winchesters or savages.

the feature i like most about the ai's, other than the velocity gain is lack of trimming cases. i'd rather have a root canal than trim cases. i can get more loadinds per case also before brass has to be recycled. i'll tell you most of my cases lasted over 10 firings and i can't/won't tell you how many times i fired some.

are the 223, 22.250, 243, 6,5x68 good rounds, you bet ya, i just like something a little different.

do the gophers, pd's, coyotes and fox know the difference when they are hit between an ai or a standard round i truly doubt it.

i hope i helped a little and didn't confuse you.
 
222 shooter:

That may be the most observant point made in the entire thread. hehe - BCB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
When I got my first reloading outfit it 1953 I was instructed on how to use it by Lysle Kilbourn as he was an employee of the company that our family was close to. So I have always felt that Kilbourn did not get the credit that Ackley got for whatever the so called improved rounds do.

I also admired Parker Ackley. He was a very interesting gun guy but it's said that his work was not all that perfect.

Back in the 50's many of us wanted a single shot rifle for chuck hunting and there were few to be had. Finally I found a nice High Wall for sale and it had been rechambered to 219 Improved Zipper. Thank goodness it had the RCBS 28 degree shoulder which is easier to live with. It came with a set of CH dies and has been a good rifle for years but it's a collosal pain to make brass. The Remington 219 Zipper brass will not fireform at all without splitting on the side of the case's body. Sometimes Winchester brass will fireform without splitting but only with oil put on the body of each case.

Later I came upon a lot of RP 30-30 brass that will FL size in the CH die but the last purchase of WW 30-30 brass folds as it seems softer. The net of all this is that I have very few old cases left but I only use the gun for hunting. The main problem is that the 219 Improved is a very large blow out.

The 225 Winchester is almost the same case but the neck is too thick for my chamber. I could turn down the necks as the small rim is enough for my extractor.

As one matures stuff like this turns from fun to work.

As the decades went by I had a 375 Improved made and a 30-06 Improved made. There was no change in accuracy in the 30-06 but it does maybe 50 fps more and the new case looked cool at first.

I view the whole so called "improved" fireformed topic as good clean fun. It costs less than Corvettes and boats but is no benefit except as a money maker for gunsmiths and an amusement to others.
 
Savage 99:

I really appreciate you commenting further on your experience with the AI cartridges and not just the negatives. It sounds like your first experience with the 219 Improved was more of a full-blown adventure in wildcatting as you had to make the parent cartridge also.

For me, one of the benefits of the "normal" AI chamberings is that factory ammo can be utilized. It makes for a very simple "somethng" that you can't normally buy off the shelf at your neighborhood gun shop. As I mentioned in my first post, there is still a lot of debate about the real advantages - if any - of the AI chamberings. PO even stated in his writings that some of the conversions don't increase velocity enough to make it beneficial for him to do the conversions for velocity alone.

From the dates you mentioned on when you began reloading, we are of roughly the same generation. My first experience reloading came through my father in the late 1950's and early 1960's. I have been hooked for life on all aspects of the firearms hobby, and seem to have passed it along to my two sons, also. In recent years, I find myself playing more and more with the small calibers than the larger ones. Maybe its because they don't hurt as much when they go off.

Take Care - BCB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
The fireformed (so called improved) that are fun and little trouble are the rimless ones that are done right by setting the barrel back. The one I have in 30-06 Improved shoots factory and military 06's with ease.

As far as longer case life thats a canard. If the headspace on a rimless bottlenecked cartridge is correct and it's sized right the case body will last. What goes is the neck which has nothing at all to to with fireforming.

For maximum accuracy and performance I prefer precision made factory brass that needs to be worked to a minimum.
 
I shoot a 243 ackley 1in12 24" shilen, with 75 gr vmaxs at 3700 fps in the .2's. I also have a 22-250 ackley with a 27" shilen shooting 55 gr vmaxs 3900 in one hole. It will shoot faster but the vmaxs will not stay together. In the process of building a 6.5-284, hope it shoots as well.
 


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