Tim Neitzke
New member
Don't have to shoot alot to have loose primer pockets. I've wrecked brass in 2 loadings when using soft brass and walking the line of max load.
Annealing brass with lead
- Thread starter Scalloper
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arlaunch
Active member
Dultimatpredator,
Good info!
Thanks!
I went over to Brownells and found Norma brass to be $140 per 100 cases of 300 RUM. Yikes!
I can see why you do that.
Technically you could by one box at $140 when you buy the rifle and load them 18 times as you have done. Your barrel should be almost shot out before the cases are.
Turns out to be around 8 cents per fire.
Better you than me! 1800 rounds of 300 RUM would kill me.
Good info!
Thanks!
I went over to Brownells and found Norma brass to be $140 per 100 cases of 300 RUM. Yikes!
I can see why you do that.
Technically you could by one box at $140 when you buy the rifle and load them 18 times as you have done. Your barrel should be almost shot out before the cases are.
Turns out to be around 8 cents per fire.
Better you than me! 1800 rounds of 300 RUM would kill me.
Tim Neitzke
New member
FYI, Hot lead in a pot and water don't mix, not even a drop. Wear saftey gear and pay close attention of what you are doing.
Dultimatpredator
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeFYI, Hot lead in a pot and water don't mix, not even a drop. Wear saftey gear and pay close attention of what you are doing.
You got that right...I've had a drop of sweat drop in my pot while casting on several occasions and get splattering.
You should price out 375 rum cases. I bought a little over a 150 a year or two ago. Paid about the amount as a good rimfire for them.
FYI the 300 rum was ready for a new barrel years ago. My fault, I could have fried eggs on it a few times load testing it at the range. It will still shoot .5" three shot groups sitting in a hs precision stock with the right loads but it's a really finicky rifle. After three rounds you can almost burn you hand on the barrel and it will start to whip shots. I've even had it cryogenicaly treated.
You got that right...I've had a drop of sweat drop in my pot while casting on several occasions and get splattering.
You should price out 375 rum cases. I bought a little over a 150 a year or two ago. Paid about the amount as a good rimfire for them.
FYI the 300 rum was ready for a new barrel years ago. My fault, I could have fried eggs on it a few times load testing it at the range. It will still shoot .5" three shot groups sitting in a hs precision stock with the right loads but it's a really finicky rifle. After three rounds you can almost burn you hand on the barrel and it will start to whip shots. I've even had it cryogenicaly treated.
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Other than when forming wildcats, making shorter cases from longer parent ones, I have never seen any reason to anneal. Just not something I have ever felt the need to do. I would bet I have lots of brass with as many loadings as anyone that does anneal, too.
I would also bet, the big majority of people who anneal frequently, if the brass were subjected to an objective test, would find no actual benefit.
It's a marketing thing. Since expensive machines became available, all the sudden, there is all this benefit to annealing. But somehow, when annealing cost nothing to do, it wasn't needed. It still costs me nothing and is still not needed
.
- DAA
I would also bet, the big majority of people who anneal frequently, if the brass were subjected to an objective test, would find no actual benefit.
It's a marketing thing. Since expensive machines became available, all the sudden, there is all this benefit to annealing. But somehow, when annealing cost nothing to do, it wasn't needed. It still costs me nothing and is still not needed
- DAA
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeFYI, Hot lead in a pot and water don't mix, not even a drop. Wear saftey gear and pay close attention of what you are doing.
A fact that I learned the hard way as a teenager! Fortunately no one was hurt.
I was bluing a rifle at a gunsmith friend's shop and planned to cast bullets when through. Heated up the lead pot while doing the final water rinse on the rifle when I noticed lead pot needed another bar or two of lead. Picked up a bar of lead (with wet hand) and eased it into the molten pot. If you think a drop of water in a lead pot is bad, try introducing the water below the surface of the molten lead! The resulting explosion (and that was essentially what it was) coated the rafters in the shop with molten lead!!! Fortunately I had withdrawn my hand before the explosion,
I don't think I have enough nerve to hold a cartridge case upside down over a pot of molten lead some 65 years after that experience.
Regards,
hm
A fact that I learned the hard way as a teenager! Fortunately no one was hurt.
I was bluing a rifle at a gunsmith friend's shop and planned to cast bullets when through. Heated up the lead pot while doing the final water rinse on the rifle when I noticed lead pot needed another bar or two of lead. Picked up a bar of lead (with wet hand) and eased it into the molten pot. If you think a drop of water in a lead pot is bad, try introducing the water below the surface of the molten lead! The resulting explosion (and that was essentially what it was) coated the rafters in the shop with molten lead!!! Fortunately I had withdrawn my hand before the explosion,
I don't think I have enough nerve to hold a cartridge case upside down over a pot of molten lead some 65 years after that experience.
Regards,
hm
In my entire life, I have experienced cracked necks with only two specific lots of brass, both Rem., one .221 FB and the other 6mm.
Always thought Rem. brass was crap even before those experiences, but that kinda cemented it for me. Have gone out of my way to avoid using Rem. brass in anything, for a long time now. But have never had cracked necks with any other brass, not even other Rem. brass, just those two specific lots.
Some of my lots of brass has been loaded 40, 50 times. No annealing, no cracked necks. Same as AWS, keep them in boxes of 50, same number of the same operations on all of them, everything recorded in the log book for the rifle the brass belongs to. I can look up exactly how many times every piece of brass has been loaded, whether it has ever been trimmed and when, if it has ever been FL sized (a lot of it hasn't, ever), etc.
Not saying there isn't ever any good reason to anneal. Or that it doesn't ever make any difference. I am saying there isn't very often, for most people, a good reason to and it doesn't very often, for most people, make any difference. But it's the new shiny thing that all the shiny people are doing and it surely doesn't hurt. Just honestly believe most people who have recently taken up the practice with religious fervor aren't getting a dang thing from it and just don't know any better.
- DAA
Always thought Rem. brass was crap even before those experiences, but that kinda cemented it for me. Have gone out of my way to avoid using Rem. brass in anything, for a long time now. But have never had cracked necks with any other brass, not even other Rem. brass, just those two specific lots.
Some of my lots of brass has been loaded 40, 50 times. No annealing, no cracked necks. Same as AWS, keep them in boxes of 50, same number of the same operations on all of them, everything recorded in the log book for the rifle the brass belongs to. I can look up exactly how many times every piece of brass has been loaded, whether it has ever been trimmed and when, if it has ever been FL sized (a lot of it hasn't, ever), etc.
Not saying there isn't ever any good reason to anneal. Or that it doesn't ever make any difference. I am saying there isn't very often, for most people, a good reason to and it doesn't very often, for most people, make any difference. But it's the new shiny thing that all the shiny people are doing and it surely doesn't hurt. Just honestly believe most people who have recently taken up the practice with religious fervor aren't getting a dang thing from it and just don't know any better.
- DAA
Annealing with lead...holy cow!
I started casting with lead bullets for a commercial caster when I was a teen ager, paid me $10 per thousand. I have seen a few explosions in lead pots...not a good thing!
In the late 60's, we could buy a 55gallon drum of LC once fired brass. We formed every kind of case you could imagine from 30/06 brass, my buddy was a commercial loader. His brother, sister, and I worked like dogs in the reloading business, as he shipped 38 specials all over the USA to police depts. Then we loaded for the local population of red necks.
Loaded ammo formed from LC brass using Sierra Bullets was inexpensive for the locals. We had to anneal every piece of rifle brass of course. Propane torch and large cooking pans with about 1/2" of water and wood dowel to knock over the case when the neck reached the slightest Orange tint.
I have continued the annealing process with propane torch and wood dowel, Templaq 750* is a bonus, you learn to count to 5, 6, 7, or 8 with a particular lot # of brass.
When a guy starts to feel the bullet seating very hard, this is time to anneal as pressures will spike on that case giving erratic results. Alloy composition of brass does vary.
Not many mention, but large over size chambers leade to annealing more frequently. Custom guns with good chambers minimize the need for annealing.
Of course, there are nit pickers, nit pickers that want the precise neck tension, and for those I would encourage you to get a seater with a force indicator from K&M, and your heart will sing for joy!
For Safety's Sake, if you finding yourself screwing around with a lead pot, only use deprimed cases, and wear safety glasses, welding coat and gloves would be a plus. This stuff will put your eyes out in a skinny minute. Messing with molten lead is not for novices. Burns will be common with molten lead and may mess up your tatoos!
Merry Christmas to all!
I started casting with lead bullets for a commercial caster when I was a teen ager, paid me $10 per thousand. I have seen a few explosions in lead pots...not a good thing!
In the late 60's, we could buy a 55gallon drum of LC once fired brass. We formed every kind of case you could imagine from 30/06 brass, my buddy was a commercial loader. His brother, sister, and I worked like dogs in the reloading business, as he shipped 38 specials all over the USA to police depts. Then we loaded for the local population of red necks.
Loaded ammo formed from LC brass using Sierra Bullets was inexpensive for the locals. We had to anneal every piece of rifle brass of course. Propane torch and large cooking pans with about 1/2" of water and wood dowel to knock over the case when the neck reached the slightest Orange tint.
I have continued the annealing process with propane torch and wood dowel, Templaq 750* is a bonus, you learn to count to 5, 6, 7, or 8 with a particular lot # of brass.
When a guy starts to feel the bullet seating very hard, this is time to anneal as pressures will spike on that case giving erratic results. Alloy composition of brass does vary.
Not many mention, but large over size chambers leade to annealing more frequently. Custom guns with good chambers minimize the need for annealing.
Of course, there are nit pickers, nit pickers that want the precise neck tension, and for those I would encourage you to get a seater with a force indicator from K&M, and your heart will sing for joy!
For Safety's Sake, if you finding yourself screwing around with a lead pot, only use deprimed cases, and wear safety glasses, welding coat and gloves would be a plus. This stuff will put your eyes out in a skinny minute. Messing with molten lead is not for novices. Burns will be common with molten lead and may mess up your tatoos!
Merry Christmas to all!
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: ScalloperI dont consider annealing with gas a better mouse trap at all. The temperature would not be nearly as consistent.
Can you please explain how an 8 to 15 second dunk into molten lead (of unknown temperature) can be more consistent than a timed exposure to a gas flame-after setting up the time and flame with 750 degree Tempilaq?
I was told lead melts at 7-750 and considering its in a liquid form when melted the whole neck gets much more uniform annealing. Jay said the military tested this for years and that was the process they used.
Can you please explain how an 8 to 15 second dunk into molten lead (of unknown temperature) can be more consistent than a timed exposure to a gas flame-after setting up the time and flame with 750 degree Tempilaq?
I was told lead melts at 7-750 and considering its in a liquid form when melted the whole neck gets much more uniform annealing. Jay said the military tested this for years and that was the process they used.
Originally Posted By: ScalloperOriginally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: ScalloperI dont consider annealing with gas a better mouse trap at all. The temperature would not be nearly as consistent.
Can you please explain how an 8 to 15 second dunk into molten lead (of unknown temperature) can be more consistent than a timed exposure to a gas flame-after setting up the time and flame with 750 degree Tempilaq?
I was told lead melts at 7-750 and considering its in a liquid form when melted the whole neck gets much more uniform annealing. Jay said the military tested this for years and that was the process they used.
Sometimes it’s really easy to tell when there’s no reason to continue a discussion.
Can you please explain how an 8 to 15 second dunk into molten lead (of unknown temperature) can be more consistent than a timed exposure to a gas flame-after setting up the time and flame with 750 degree Tempilaq?
I was told lead melts at 7-750 and considering its in a liquid form when melted the whole neck gets much more uniform annealing. Jay said the military tested this for years and that was the process they used.
Sometimes it’s really easy to tell when there’s no reason to continue a discussion.
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Annealing with a cordless drill over a propane torch in a dark room is super easy and quick. I don't have the means to prove anything about accuracy, but seating bullets feels buttery smooth and super consistent on annealed cases compared to brand new or range pickup brass.
That said, there's a few other guys in my circle who shoot similar equipment (mid/hi end factory, semi-custom varmint type, non-benchrest) but don't anneal. They poke fun at my annealing as a waste of time. But none of them can outshoot me. I have couple of rifles and loads I can whip them with every time and it's been that way for years. Could just be one factor of many, but it works for me.
Seriously, it's so easy and inexpensive.
That said, there's a few other guys in my circle who shoot similar equipment (mid/hi end factory, semi-custom varmint type, non-benchrest) but don't anneal. They poke fun at my annealing as a waste of time. But none of them can outshoot me. I have couple of rifles and loads I can whip them with every time and it's been that way for years. Could just be one factor of many, but it works for me.
Seriously, it's so easy and inexpensive.
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: ScalloperOriginally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: ScalloperI dont consider annealing with gas a better mouse trap at all. The temperature would not be nearly as consistent.
Can you please explain how an 8 to 15 second dunk into molten lead (of unknown temperature) can be more consistent than a timed exposure to a gas flame-after setting up the time and flame with 750 degree Tempilaq?
I was told lead melts at 7-750 and considering its in a liquid form when melted the whole neck gets much more uniform annealing. Jay said the military tested this for years and that was the process they used.
Sometimes it’s really easy to tell when there’s no reason to continue a discussion.
If your going to be a dick turn the page....
Can you please explain how an 8 to 15 second dunk into molten lead (of unknown temperature) can be more consistent than a timed exposure to a gas flame-after setting up the time and flame with 750 degree Tempilaq?
I was told lead melts at 7-750 and considering its in a liquid form when melted the whole neck gets much more uniform annealing. Jay said the military tested this for years and that was the process they used.
Sometimes it’s really easy to tell when there’s no reason to continue a discussion.
If your going to be a dick turn the page....
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