Another calve killer dead!

Y

yotehuntr

New member
I went out this morning to try to help out this local farmer he has had several coyotes taking calves off his fields. He asked me to try to get rid of a few of them,Im not one to argue lol. I shot this coyote at 300 yards coming slow but he was going to wind me so i had to take the shot folded him up right on the spot. Walked out to get him didnt see any sighn of life so i poked him with the barrel as always, when he grabbed my barrel then he decided to come after me a nice close follow up shot in the neck put him down for the count really gets the blood boiling. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
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Hey Man, your not supposed to go without me you dirty dog LOL. You have a Private Message. Get ahold of me.

300 yards? you sure? I seen you miss alot closer LOL.

t/c223encore.
 
Yeah tc 300 yrds. I had the trigger done on this 22-250 what a diffrence one hole groups at 150. you also seen me kill them closer lol .....Real close
 
Yes I certainly did see you kill em alot closer, you coulda got that one with a baseball bat. Oh and just so you know a couple weeks after you said I'll paint mine. I almost did, I had it taken apart, taped up, and ready, 2 times, but I just couldn't do it. so yeah seeing your paint job did almost get me to paint mine. I'll camo it in a way that don't require painting.

t/c223encore.
 
Ill paint it for ya so you dont chicken out lol. I know its a hard thing to paint a gun almost feels like a crime but i have no regrets just makes me a little more invisible.
 
Well...did you slit his belly open to see if indeed he was a calf killer, or was it just presumed because he was in the neighborhood:)
 
Chile....what do you care if he kills a coyote now vs. December? Is it hurting you any? I welcome you to come out here to W. Texas and chastise a local sheep rancher in particular that I know who kills every coyote he sees. (I don't know any others that don't do this or hire someone to do it for them) I'd love to watch you "educate" him in an effort to change his ways. After you pick yourself off of the ground and gather your teeth up to take with you, you'd realize that the rancher (or anybody else for that matter) doesn't have to rationalize a single thing for you. It's a known fact that coyotes eat sheep and sometimes calves. With these high cattle prices, it's a nice insurance policy to shoot every coyote you see vs. running the risk of losing $500+ per steer that you could have made at the auction house. Do you ranch livestock yourself? Have you ever lost over half of a lamb crop to coyotes and bobcats? Until you do, I'd keep your close minded perceptions to yourself.


Rusty
 
Rusty: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Couldn't have said it better- Amen to that! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif
 
Rusty,
I think that all Chile Rojo was getting at was that since it was being called a calf killer, maybe someone should check and see. In my summertime ADC employment I have found that in order to know if you have killed the right coyote it is necessary to see what that particular coyote was eating. I kill plenty that were just "in the area", but when you actually have a livestock killer (documented by actually skinning the killed livestock to determine that they were actually killed by a coyote, not just cleaned up)you need to make sure you have the right coyote or coyotes or your killing isn't likely to stop. I understand depredation, but I also understand that if your going "help a rancher out" you should at least try to do the job correctly and kill the coyotes that are actually doing damage. Killing a few others is fine also, but if you don't have the corrct ones in the end you really haven't done much.
 
Chille,

One thing is very clear, he won't be eating or killing calves in the future whether he did so in the past or not /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. He was just simply doing as the farmer asked, and did a great job by the way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif.



OK, Lets say for the sake of argument that he did cut open his belly and found calf remains. Does this mean he is guilty of killing the calf? No. It just means he ate some /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif. Lets say that he found no calf ramains in his stomach. Does this mean the coyote is just the innocent victim of some uneducated coyote killing vigalante /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif? No. It just means that A "Predator" was just in a place that the farmer didn't want him to be, so he was shot. Plenty of justification for me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif. In my way of thinking, cutting the coyote open serves no meaningful purpose. Killing him does. What Yotehuntr did say was that the rancher had claimed to have some coyotes taking some calves off his fields and asked him to remove a few of the coyotes. This is what he did, and did well /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif.

As far as performing an autopsy to determine cause of death (On the calves in question). This, as Cal mentioned is quite easy to do, unless their ain't enough left to do an autopsy. In my experience this is often the case. Most of the time there is plenty of evidence of what took place without having to do an autopsy even when there is enough left to do so. Heathy calves don't just up and die. They usually have to be killed. Sure, lots of calf deaths are falsly blamed on coyotes, but I can't begin to tell you how many confirmed cases of calf kills I have seen caused directly by coyotes. Sure it's not as widespread as some believe(In some areas almost nonexistant) but in some areas it is certainly a very common occurance. Last year a guy caught me in town while I was hunting out in the panhandle region of Texas. He had a bunch of first calf heifers up by his head quarters where he could keep and eye on them as they were heavy bred. His calf losses were bad enough to "coyotes" he was sleeping in his truck, at night, in the 50 acre trap to try and keep the coyotes from killing more calves. I fixed his problem toot sweet by killing several of the offenders. I'm sure I killed a few "innocents(caladeral damage, I like to call it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)in the process. This Ranchers owns many sections of land and I now have the keys to all his gates to hunt coyotes, any time I please /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Just a few weeks ago a friend of mine had a cow prolapse while giving birth in the middle of the night. He successfully delivered the calf, but decided to get a little rest before getting her to the vet the next morning. When he went to check her the next morning he walked up on seven coyotes eating at her back side. She was dead by then but he said you could tell she tried too fight. The calf, by the way, was safe and sound, this time. Would she had lived without the coyote attack. Probably. His coyote population was reduced after a couple of visits /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

My questions are.

1.What in the world is wrong with a guy killing coyotes when a rancher ask him too? Cal does it.
2.Does he need to justify it to anyone but himself, or at all to you?
3. Is coyotes praying on calves just folklore cooked up by vigalantee coyote hunters to justfy their selfish bloodlust, or do coyotes actaully sometimes kill calves and other livestock?(If not, why do we have ADC men/bounties?)
5. Is the coyote falsly labled as a predator? Maybe he should be labled just simply "furbearer" with a season. Then we can justify taking his life buy ripping his hide off and selling it to the highest bidder.

Not poking at anyone in particlar with this post. Just wanted to add my thoughts.

We are heading into the Spring and Summer months and some will choose to kill a coyote or two. When they do, they may wish to share that experience with the other members here, and I hope they do. Many have different opinions on this subject and have made people feel the need to jusify such blatant violations of their ehtics. I'm all for trying to make a guy think, but only in a noncondesending way. Things are often worded wrong or read not understanding the intentions of the writer. What I'm asking is that we keep it cival and understand that not everybody will agree or be as smart as you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Deal?

Good Hunting

Byron
 
NO i didnt cut his belly open not going to personaly i dont care if he was one of the ones doing it or not. Hes not doing it anymore thats what matters! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif I usually dont hunt them during this time of the year due to denning season I am usually fishing by now and will be fishing again soon enough. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
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i dont know about coyotes, but i guess they are similar to wild dogs. wild dogs are evil, and deserve to die just for being born. lots of people get upset when i say that, but those people havnt had to follow a trail of innards in a creek bed,to find a sheep that has literally had its hole backside eaten off, and lived through the night, so that i had to cut its throat.
or maybe they havnt seen a grown man break down and cry because his wife had just had her 2nd baby, and he was struggling through drought as it was, when dogs killed 40 of his sheep in one night, and with them went thousands of dollars.
no, they are beter off dead, keep it up.
 
They kill calves here and dont even bother eating them, hard to have proof there. Most around here just shoot them, no matter.
 
Byron and yotehuntr, as you may or may not know I have no problem killing a coyote whenever, and I shouldn't speak for Chili Rojo. I'm not sure of his point, but I assume he was just pointing out what I stated above. I do have to disagree with your saying that autopsies are meaningless. If you handle alot of trouble calls (and I know you get some Byron) it pays in the end to know whats really going on. If you have depredation going on in an area it is usually a specific coyote or group of coyotes and those are the coyotes that will be full of lamb or beef in most cases. Especially this time of year (feeding pups). Later in the fall you will get all types of killing when they may or may not feed on the carcass. I have been in areas of sheep depredation and killed several coyotes near the sheep but figured out by stomach contents that I hadn't killed the killers. So you know your work isn't done. I have found the killers as far as 6 miles from the sheep being killed, with alot of other coyotes in between, but with no other sheep in the area I knew I finally had them. There is nothing more embarrassing to me than to tell a rancher that I killed his "problem" coyotes, only to have him get hammered again that next night. Then he just thinks your full of crap. I'm not saying that there was anything wrong with killing the collateral coyotes, but as I stated above, until you actually have the ones responsible, you aren't finished. Thats also the reason that most "recreational" hunters don't really do any good with damage control. Because they can't or won't stay there till the job is finished. They kill a coyote or two, but it may or may not be the killers and then they go to town and get on the computer to tell everyone what a great "ADC" job they did, meanwhile the rancher gets hammered again that night.
 
Have to say, this post and replies is one of the best I've followed- very good rapport and discussion; a show of intelligence rather than a show of insulting like so many other posts. This is the point of forum!
 
So how do you know if a legitimate calf killer hasn't fully digested everything in his stomach and therefore would have an empty stomach upon autopsy? I say kill 'em. If the landowner wants you to do it, then you should do it or expect him to find somebody that will. To NOT kill them (when the rancher wants you to) is simply putting your own desires (ie. fur-farming of predators) over his wish for his livestock (and pocket-book) to be protected. That's why I wouldn't attempt to descriminate. Foothold traps don't, neither do snares or M-44's. I won't either since there are too many "what ifs" when trying to determine if you have a calf killer or not. Plus, with the high populations we have out here, there is never a single culprit, but many. And I'll argue all day with anyone who thinks that ALL coyotes aren't lamb killers....same goes for bobcats. Too easy and tasty of a meal, plain and simple.

I hope I didn't come across too harsh in my post above, but that's truly the way many of these ranchers out here in W. Texas operate and for good reason if you ask me. I took Chile's response to mean that he was somewhat against the killing of coyotes without knowing if they are the culprit or not.

Take care,

Rusty
 
My point wasn't about whether or not to kill them Rusty. I said killing was fine, but I was trying to make the point of actually knowing if you had the ones you need to have to stop the depredation. It seems to keep going over everyones head, so I'll drop it. Of course the ranchers want them dead, I understand that and I understand why. So lets just bring back 1080 and be done with it! LOL!
I just truly don't believe that the guy that started this post has any clue as to whether or not he killed a coyote that was actually the problem. He went out and killed a coyote that a rancher wanted dead. Good deal. But don't come back here and post that you killed the "calf killer" (it is calf, by the way) if you don't have a friggin clue.
 
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