Anybody have a good Varget load
- Thread starter Hillshooter
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Smokeless
New member
Originally Posted By: HookedIf I didn`t have a half pound left I darn sure wouldn`t have run out and bought more to try.
You give up completely?
Not completely, but I can't speak of Varget's deficiency's without the 'hoards" of kool-aid drinkers landing on my head. Not worth the fight. Some things, just are what they are, and Varget is "cult-ish". IMO
You give up completely?
Not completely, but I can't speak of Varget's deficiency's without the 'hoards" of kool-aid drinkers landing on my head. Not worth the fight. Some things, just are what they are, and Varget is "cult-ish". IMO
whoadog
Member
Originally Posted By: whoadog
Mine shoots the varget just fine at 24.5gr. I tested loads from 24 to 26.5 in half grain steps and definately settled in at 24.5. That's over CCI BR-4 primers and using 55gr VMAX and out of a 20" barrel.
With that load, you are getting about 2900-2950 fps.
I think most people would want better performance out of a 223 than that.
What do you consider "better performance", a few hundred fps? You may be right on the actual velocity but the manual list the load at 3000 ,guess I need to get out the chrono. As far as accuracy, of the loads with this powder and others and also much speedier loads, I'm just saying this is where mine ended up being most accurate. Just answering the OP original question (without berating anyone which you seem to well, you seem to shoot down more people than cats) Whoadog
Mine shoots the varget just fine at 24.5gr. I tested loads from 24 to 26.5 in half grain steps and definately settled in at 24.5. That's over CCI BR-4 primers and using 55gr VMAX and out of a 20" barrel.
With that load, you are getting about 2900-2950 fps.
I think most people would want better performance out of a 223 than that.
What do you consider "better performance", a few hundred fps? You may be right on the actual velocity but the manual list the load at 3000 ,guess I need to get out the chrono. As far as accuracy, of the loads with this powder and others and also much speedier loads, I'm just saying this is where mine ended up being most accurate. Just answering the OP original question (without berating anyone which you seem to well, you seem to shoot down more people than cats) Whoadog
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: whoadogOriginally Posted By: whoadog
Mine shoots the varget just fine at 24.5gr. I tested loads from 24 to 26.5 in half grain steps and definately settled in at 24.5. That's over CCI BR-4 primers and using 55gr VMAX and out of a 20" barrel.
Originally Posted By: CatShooterWith that load, you are getting about 2900-2950 fps.
I think most people would want better performance out of a 223 than that.
Originally Posted By: whoadogWhat do you consider "better performance", a few hundred fps? You may be right on the actual velocity but the manual list the load at 3000 ,guess I need to get out the chrono.
Well, yeah - a few hundred feet per second is good enough of an improvement that people will go to a larger case to get it.
If I was satisfied with 2,900-2,950 with a 55gr bullet, I'd shoot a .218 Bee for that.
Originally Posted By: whoadog ... without berating anyone which you seem to well, you seem to shoot down more people than cats) Whoadog
You are not intelligent enough to be worth the time.
.
Mine shoots the varget just fine at 24.5gr. I tested loads from 24 to 26.5 in half grain steps and definately settled in at 24.5. That's over CCI BR-4 primers and using 55gr VMAX and out of a 20" barrel.
Originally Posted By: CatShooterWith that load, you are getting about 2900-2950 fps.
I think most people would want better performance out of a 223 than that.
Originally Posted By: whoadogWhat do you consider "better performance", a few hundred fps? You may be right on the actual velocity but the manual list the load at 3000 ,guess I need to get out the chrono.
Well, yeah - a few hundred feet per second is good enough of an improvement that people will go to a larger case to get it.
If I was satisfied with 2,900-2,950 with a 55gr bullet, I'd shoot a .218 Bee for that.
Originally Posted By: whoadog ... without berating anyone which you seem to well, you seem to shoot down more people than cats) Whoadog
You are not intelligent enough to be worth the time.
.
You know, I was gonna walk away from this, but I'm gonna say one more thing.
Catshooter, all you are is an arrogant POS and an internet punk, that apparently has nothing better to do than hang around on the forums and spread your cat manure.
You made an erroneous statement and aren't man enough to admit when you are wrong. Or are just too ignorant to know the real difference.
I wonder if you even have a real job. Probably still live at home with your mama.
Heres a paragraph from Noslers #4 manual, Under Comments from the Lab, page 119, concerning the .223 Rem.
"The loads listed here were developed using standard commercial brass. Military brass has less case capacity because of its heavier construction, which often leads to higher pressures. We recommend caution when using military brass, and suggest starting at or below the minimum loads listed."
I guess they don't know what they're talking about either.
Get a life turd!
Catshooter, all you are is an arrogant POS and an internet punk, that apparently has nothing better to do than hang around on the forums and spread your cat manure.
You made an erroneous statement and aren't man enough to admit when you are wrong. Or are just too ignorant to know the real difference.
I wonder if you even have a real job. Probably still live at home with your mama.
Heres a paragraph from Noslers #4 manual, Under Comments from the Lab, page 119, concerning the .223 Rem.
"The loads listed here were developed using standard commercial brass. Military brass has less case capacity because of its heavier construction, which often leads to higher pressures. We recommend caution when using military brass, and suggest starting at or below the minimum loads listed."
I guess they don't know what they're talking about either.
Get a life turd!
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DoubleUp
Well-known member
You're right VaHowler. You should have just walked away like you said. A double-minded man is unstable in all of his ways. Turn it loose and move on rather than continuing to step in another one.
BTW, it helps to actually include the link. I see you did finally include the quotes. That's better, but you'll find that you still should have left it alone. JMHO.
BTW, it helps to actually include the link. I see you did finally include the quotes. That's better, but you'll find that you still should have left it alone. JMHO.
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CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: VaHowlerYou know, I was gonna walk away from this, but I'm gonna say one more thing.
Catshooter, all you are is an arrogant POS and an internet punk, that apparently has nothing better to do than hang around on the forums and spread your cat manure.
You made an erroneous statement and aren't man enough to admit when you are wrong. Or are just too ignorant to know the real difference.
I wonder if you even have a real job. Probably still live at home with your mama.
Heres a paragraph from Noslers #4 manual, Under Comments from the Lab, page 119, concerning the .223 Rem.
"The loads listed here were developed using standard commercial brass. Military brass has less case capacity because of its heavier construction, which often leads to higher pressures. We recommend caution when using military brass, and suggest starting at or below the minimum loads listed."
I guess they don't know what they're talking about either.
Get a life turd!
---
Here are the weights.
Lake City is not the heaviest - it is the LIGHTEST - which means that for a given weight of power, it will give the LOWEST pressures, compared to other cases.
Do you even understand any of this, or do you just rant when you step in it, and get caught.
I give technical data and you just call names. Grow up.
From http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html
-------
To achieve high levels of accuracy in the .223 Rem, you need quality brass. Among the dozens of .223 Rem/5.56x45 brass makers, Lapua produces the highest quality and most uniform brass we have found. If you look at the charts, new lots of Lapua .223 brass showed the smallest extreme spread in weight among all brands, even though we measured 100 Lapua cases as opposed to 50 with other brands. Lapua is more expensive, but you can reload Lapua cases a dozen times or more. Also, Lapua maintains primer pocket tightness with hot loads better than other brands. After Lapua, the recent Lake City brass is very good, and it offers the highest case capacity, at 30.6 grains. Winchester brass is favored by many Highpower shooters. Current Hornady brass has shown very good uniformity (see chart).
Brass Manufacturer Aver. Wt.
(Sample) Extreme
Spread Standard
Deviation
Lapua (new lot) 93.35 (100) 1.2 gr 0.31 gr
Hornady 93.88 (50) 1.7 gr 0.43 gr
Federal 96.28 (50) 2.3gr 0.75 gr
Lake City '04 92.97 (50) 2.5 gr 0.61 gr
WCC 99 95.5 (20) 2.9 gr 0.74 gr
IMG (Guatemalan) 95.42 (25) 3.1 gr 0.88 gr
PMP 104.4 (50) 3.9 gr 0.93 gr
Radway 96.05 (50) 4.1 gr 0.89 gr
PMC 93.48 (20) 4.6 gr 1.36 gr
Remington 92.33 (50) 4.9 gr 0.85 gr
Winchester 93.91 (44) 6.5 gr 0.96 gr
Catshooter, all you are is an arrogant POS and an internet punk, that apparently has nothing better to do than hang around on the forums and spread your cat manure.
You made an erroneous statement and aren't man enough to admit when you are wrong. Or are just too ignorant to know the real difference.
I wonder if you even have a real job. Probably still live at home with your mama.
Heres a paragraph from Noslers #4 manual, Under Comments from the Lab, page 119, concerning the .223 Rem.
"The loads listed here were developed using standard commercial brass. Military brass has less case capacity because of its heavier construction, which often leads to higher pressures. We recommend caution when using military brass, and suggest starting at or below the minimum loads listed."
I guess they don't know what they're talking about either.
Get a life turd!
---
Here are the weights.
Lake City is not the heaviest - it is the LIGHTEST - which means that for a given weight of power, it will give the LOWEST pressures, compared to other cases.
Do you even understand any of this, or do you just rant when you step in it, and get caught.
I give technical data and you just call names. Grow up.
From http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html
-------
To achieve high levels of accuracy in the .223 Rem, you need quality brass. Among the dozens of .223 Rem/5.56x45 brass makers, Lapua produces the highest quality and most uniform brass we have found. If you look at the charts, new lots of Lapua .223 brass showed the smallest extreme spread in weight among all brands, even though we measured 100 Lapua cases as opposed to 50 with other brands. Lapua is more expensive, but you can reload Lapua cases a dozen times or more. Also, Lapua maintains primer pocket tightness with hot loads better than other brands. After Lapua, the recent Lake City brass is very good, and it offers the highest case capacity, at 30.6 grains. Winchester brass is favored by many Highpower shooters. Current Hornady brass has shown very good uniformity (see chart).
Brass Manufacturer Aver. Wt.
(Sample) Extreme
Spread Standard
Deviation
Lapua (new lot) 93.35 (100) 1.2 gr 0.31 gr
Hornady 93.88 (50) 1.7 gr 0.43 gr
Federal 96.28 (50) 2.3gr 0.75 gr
Lake City '04 92.97 (50) 2.5 gr 0.61 gr
WCC 99 95.5 (20) 2.9 gr 0.74 gr
IMG (Guatemalan) 95.42 (25) 3.1 gr 0.88 gr
PMP 104.4 (50) 3.9 gr 0.93 gr
Radway 96.05 (50) 4.1 gr 0.89 gr
PMC 93.48 (20) 4.6 gr 1.36 gr
Remington 92.33 (50) 4.9 gr 0.85 gr
Winchester 93.91 (44) 6.5 gr 0.96 gr
JerrySchmitt
New member
Originally Posted By: VaHowlerYou know, I was gonna walk away from this, but I'm gonna say one more thing.
Catshooter, all you are is an arrogant POS and an internet punk, that apparently has nothing better to do than hang around on the forums and spread your cat manure.
You made an erroneous statement and aren't man enough to admit when you are wrong. Or are just too ignorant to know the real difference.
I wonder if you even have a real job. Probably still live at home with your mama.
Heres a paragraph from Noslers #4 manual, Under Comments from the Lab, page 119, concerning the .223 Rem.
"The loads listed here were developed using standard commercial brass. Military brass has less case capacity because of its heavier construction, which often leads to higher pressures. We recommend caution when using military brass, and suggest starting at or below the minimum loads listed."
I guess they don't know what they're talking about either.
Get a life turd!
Sorry VanHowler. You're wrong. Yes military cases have smaller capacity and may induce higher pressure but that goes for 7.62 vs .308 also. Many cases have different capacity and that's why we tend to shoot cases of the same headstamp for accuracy and work up loads using what ever case we select. That 5.56 vs .223 argument has been floating around the net from day one and was wrong then and it's wrong now. All you really need to do is study the SAMMI specs on both cartridges and see for yourself. The other thing you could do is find one documented incident of a .223 blowing up because of a 5.56 round being fired in it. There isn't one. If it were a danger, there would be many because people do it all the time.
Catshooter, all you are is an arrogant POS and an internet punk, that apparently has nothing better to do than hang around on the forums and spread your cat manure.
You made an erroneous statement and aren't man enough to admit when you are wrong. Or are just too ignorant to know the real difference.
I wonder if you even have a real job. Probably still live at home with your mama.
Heres a paragraph from Noslers #4 manual, Under Comments from the Lab, page 119, concerning the .223 Rem.
"The loads listed here were developed using standard commercial brass. Military brass has less case capacity because of its heavier construction, which often leads to higher pressures. We recommend caution when using military brass, and suggest starting at or below the minimum loads listed."
I guess they don't know what they're talking about either.
Get a life turd!
Sorry VanHowler. You're wrong. Yes military cases have smaller capacity and may induce higher pressure but that goes for 7.62 vs .308 also. Many cases have different capacity and that's why we tend to shoot cases of the same headstamp for accuracy and work up loads using what ever case we select. That 5.56 vs .223 argument has been floating around the net from day one and was wrong then and it's wrong now. All you really need to do is study the SAMMI specs on both cartridges and see for yourself. The other thing you could do is find one documented incident of a .223 blowing up because of a 5.56 round being fired in it. There isn't one. If it were a danger, there would be many because people do it all the time.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: VaHowler
"I wonder if you even have a real job. Probably still live at home with your mama."
Both of my folks died a long time ago - of old age. I was making ammo commercially when you were riding your first tricycle.
And about that "You made an erroneous statement and aren't man enough to admit when you are wrong. Or are just too ignorant to know the real difference."
Just what statement was that - the one where I said he could the same loading data as the 223?
Well, if you look at the case weights from 6mmbr.com, it should be clear (even to you) that if the Lake City cases are lighter, then they are safe with the same loading data as with Win, Rem, and other cases.
Just what is it about that information that you find so difficult to understand??
And about being "man enough to admit a mistake..."
Well, Duh! You think you might have a problem in that area???
Quote:Heres[sic] a paragraph from Noslers #4 manual, Under Comments from the Lab, page 119, concerning the .223 Rem.
"The loads listed here were developed using standard commercial brass. Military brass has less case capacity because of its heavier construction, which often leads to higher pressures. We recommend caution when using military brass, and suggest starting at or below the minimum loads listed."
Well, I just got off the phone with "Mike" in ballistics at Nosler and he has no idea about it - he says he wasn't with Nosler when it was written, and Mike has no idea what the brass weighs. He says the paragraph just gets moved on from edition to edition,
Quote:I guess they don't know what they're talking about either.
I don't know... call Nosler (1-800-285-3701) and hit 2 when the automated voice comes on - and ask the nice lady for "Mike".
Ask him how much 223 Lake City brass weighs compared to the other makers brass.
It's easy to run your mouth - it takes effort to do some homework.
.
"I wonder if you even have a real job. Probably still live at home with your mama."
Both of my folks died a long time ago - of old age. I was making ammo commercially when you were riding your first tricycle.
And about that "You made an erroneous statement and aren't man enough to admit when you are wrong. Or are just too ignorant to know the real difference."
Just what statement was that - the one where I said he could the same loading data as the 223?
Well, if you look at the case weights from 6mmbr.com, it should be clear (even to you) that if the Lake City cases are lighter, then they are safe with the same loading data as with Win, Rem, and other cases.
Just what is it about that information that you find so difficult to understand??
And about being "man enough to admit a mistake..."
Well, Duh! You think you might have a problem in that area???
Quote:Heres[sic] a paragraph from Noslers #4 manual, Under Comments from the Lab, page 119, concerning the .223 Rem.
"The loads listed here were developed using standard commercial brass. Military brass has less case capacity because of its heavier construction, which often leads to higher pressures. We recommend caution when using military brass, and suggest starting at or below the minimum loads listed."
Well, I just got off the phone with "Mike" in ballistics at Nosler and he has no idea about it - he says he wasn't with Nosler when it was written, and Mike has no idea what the brass weighs. He says the paragraph just gets moved on from edition to edition,
Quote:I guess they don't know what they're talking about either.
I don't know... call Nosler (1-800-285-3701) and hit 2 when the automated voice comes on - and ask the nice lady for "Mike".
Ask him how much 223 Lake City brass weighs compared to the other makers brass.
It's easy to run your mouth - it takes effort to do some homework.
.
flyinlizard1
New member
My ar likes 26.0 of varget under a 50gr v-max.
Smokeless
New member
For discussion sake, could we include Weatherby ammunition into this?
If Weatherby ammo was fired from a Weatherby custom chamber, with a short throat, could the pressures be higher? Not saying it would be to high, just higher.
I think all this concern of pressure difference between the 5.56 and 223 is really more about the throat or lead length difference in the two chamberings, and lawyers. JMO2
If Weatherby ammo was fired from a Weatherby custom chamber, with a short throat, could the pressures be higher? Not saying it would be to high, just higher.
I think all this concern of pressure difference between the 5.56 and 223 is really more about the throat or lead length difference in the two chamberings, and lawyers. JMO2
Originally Posted By: SmokelessFor discussion sake, could we include Weatherby ammunition into this?
If Weatherby ammo was fired from a Weatherby custom chamber, with a short throat, could the pressures be higher? Not saying it would be to high, just higher.
I think all this concern of pressure difference between the 5.56 and 223 is really more about the throat or lead length difference in the two chamberings, and lawyers. JMO2
Just for discussion sake, I built two custom 257 Weatherby's with zero freebore and .2575 throats, that is about as tight as it gets. 100's at 3850 and 87's at 4030 fps are nothing to sneeze at. Lots of Internet BS out there, just be careful and go forward with caution.
If Weatherby ammo was fired from a Weatherby custom chamber, with a short throat, could the pressures be higher? Not saying it would be to high, just higher.
I think all this concern of pressure difference between the 5.56 and 223 is really more about the throat or lead length difference in the two chamberings, and lawyers. JMO2
Just for discussion sake, I built two custom 257 Weatherby's with zero freebore and .2575 throats, that is about as tight as it gets. 100's at 3850 and 87's at 4030 fps are nothing to sneeze at. Lots of Internet BS out there, just be careful and go forward with caution.
Smokeless
New member
Originally Posted By: ackleymanOriginally Posted By: SmokelessFor discussion sake, could we include Weatherby ammunition into this?
If Weatherby ammo was fired from a Weatherby custom chamber, with a short throat, could the pressures be higher? Not saying it would be to high, just higher.
I think all this concern of pressure difference between the 5.56 and 223 is really more about the throat or lead length difference in the two chamberings, and lawyers. JMO2
Just for discussion sake, I built two custom 257 Weatherby's with zero freebore and .2575 throats, that is about as tight as it gets. 100's at 3850 and 87's at 4030 fps are nothing to sneeze at. Lots of Internet BS out there, just be careful and go forward with caution.
Do you shoot factory Weatherby loads in your customs, or hand loads?
If Weatherby ammo was fired from a Weatherby custom chamber, with a short throat, could the pressures be higher? Not saying it would be to high, just higher.
I think all this concern of pressure difference between the 5.56 and 223 is really more about the throat or lead length difference in the two chamberings, and lawyers. JMO2
Just for discussion sake, I built two custom 257 Weatherby's with zero freebore and .2575 throats, that is about as tight as it gets. 100's at 3850 and 87's at 4030 fps are nothing to sneeze at. Lots of Internet BS out there, just be careful and go forward with caution.
Do you shoot factory Weatherby loads in your customs, or hand loads?
Rustydust
Active member
I have had three .223 rifles that shot their best groups ever with Varget. 26 grains of it with the 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet will just cloverleaf 5 shots at 100 yards with a CZ 527, a Savage 112, and my Model 1 AR-15. And not just for me but for others as well.
Were I forced to use only one powder for my .223 rifles I would happily pick Varget and not even bat an eye.
Were I forced to use only one powder for my .223 rifles I would happily pick Varget and not even bat an eye.
yotekilla313
New member
It depends on what your doing with these loads. Are you hunting, just punching paper, or competing. I was suprised at the negative comments on Varget. I love the stuff. I shoot a Rock River VarmintA4 with a 16" barrel. My load is 26.2 grains of Varget, CCI 400 primer, Winchester brass and 55 grain Vmax bullets. This load shoots right about an inch at 200 yards for me. It amazed me when I started shooting it. Personally I could careless if the bullet is going 2400 fps or 2800. As long as the bullet goes where I aim and the Yote goes down I'm good with it.
Hillshooter
New member
It will mainly be a hunting load. Thanks for all of the replies I am going to try it out and see what my rifle likes. I also got some benchmark to try so we'll see how it goes.
Ridgeline17
New member
Try the Benchmark or the Varget, two of the best in my opinion but somebody will lite on my head for that.You will not be dissapointed with either one of them. Dont get me wrong here you want accuracy.but in the end its to put them down hard and quick.