Anyone using MPBR?

T

Toby10

New member
Hello everyone,

New to PM and hunting also. I'm from southern Ontario and wanna do my part with the yote's.

I recently bought one of those ugly Savage's in 22-250. I've read about Maximum Point Blank Range and it has really got me thinking about how much easier it would be without having to hold over for your longer ranges.

Can I ask you folks for your opinion whether it be good or bad.

For the record, I've got 2 boxes of 55gr PSP to shoot through the edge. If anyone has a better idea for me to try just throw it out there, cuz like I said I"M NEW TO THIS STUFF!

All help is appreciated.

Looking forward to your responses,

Brian
 
Many on here like the MPBR concept and while the concept is good, the practice didn't work out well for us. We started using MPBR with our .22-250's and found that we shot over too many coyotes at the 175 yard area particularly. That range is pretty common in our open country. It also about maxes the midrange trajectory when sighted in for MPBR if I remember correctly. A very slight bobble or a slightly high hold and it would cause an over shot coyote.

We have since gone to 200 yard zeros on all our coyote calling rigs. The maximum midrange trajectory is usually less than 1 1/2" and we can still hold right on to 250 yards. That covers about 95% of our calling shots. You'd have to run the numbers for your load, but it will probably still allow you to hold on hair to close to 350. Just our experience. YMMV.
 
It works really well IME, you just have to adjust it for the size of your target. Done correctly the bullet never leaves the target zone, so you shouldn't be shooting over/under all they way out to the max range.

If you have a 12" target (biiig game) you should set so your MPBR keeps the bullet at a max of 6" rise and whenever it drops 6" low you have the MPBR. But if your target size changes to say a 6" target the MPRB has to be adjusted or you will be shooting over/under as you max a 3" rise and drop and the range has to come in. The bigger the target the longer the MPBR. So you do have to tailor it to not only the ballistics of the round, but what you plan on hunting. If you're after a variety of target sizes you're generally stuck with a MPBR for the smallest target and then adjusting holdover for the larger targets at greater ranges.

Clear as mud?


I use it from elk to prairie dogs, hasn't failed yet. I wouldn't use it for target shooting, but for meat in the freezer no complaints.
 
Keep the tunnel, thin and you will do ok!

IE: Only figure the MPBR for a "tunnel" of 6", which is 3" above / below line of sight.

Yes, this does bring you back to closer shots, but lets be realistic about shooting a coyote at 350+ yards. Does it happen, yes, is it the norm... Nope.
 
Ya Nd,

Clear as mud! lol

I guess the only critters that will get the brunt of this rifle will be yote's, and if I'm lucky an unsuspecting crow that is grounded.

Thanks for being patient with a noob

Brian
 
I use it, and actually sighted in farther than usual on my airgun because of MPBR. With a 2" target, moving from 30 yards to 35 yard sight it, I have about 40 yards of point blank. I would do the same after I get some range time and some ballistics on my new AR build.
 
Originally Posted By: Toby10Ya Nd,

Clear as mud! lol

I guess the only critters that will get the brunt of this rifle will be yote's, and if I'm lucky an unsuspecting crow that is grounded.

Thanks for being patient with a noob

Brian

Kind of basic explanation so no offense meant.


Ok, this is easier if I can sketch it out, but you'll have to visualize. So close your eyes and imagine... wait, you can't close your eyes and read this so open them back up. I SAID OPEN... hehehehe


Ignore shooting over any range for a minute and think about a long piece of PVC pipe with an opening of 6" laying perfectly level.

mpbr1.jpg


That's going to represent a total target size of 6", or MOD (Minute Of Deer). You get to stand on the left, the target is the on the right.

Your POA (Point Of Aim) is going to be the red line, holding dead on to center of the target.

mpbr2.jpg



Pulling the trigger the bullet travels in an arc, green line. The goal of determining a MPBR is to find how far out the target can be where the bullet will not travel any higher than 1/2 the total target height and how far out the target can be before dropping more than 1/2 the total target height.

mpbr4.jpg


The distance your round will do this is the maximum point blank range. That is hold dead on with no holdover or holdunder, and still score a 'hit' on the target. Bad for target shooting, but when all you're after is a 'hit' in a vital area it works really well. So for an example with the above idea, the MPBR may be 287 yards for a given round using that target size. So anywhere from the muzzle of your rifle out to 287 yards, all you have to do is hold dead on and pull the trigger because the bullet NEVER crosses higher or lower than your actual target until it passes beyond the MPBR. Much easier IMO than trying to determine exactly how many clicks to adjust, or guessing how much to hold over. Just point and click, start field dressing.

Now the larger your actual target is the larger the high and low spot will be. If you have a 12" target the bullet can rise clear up to 6" and drop below 6". Using the exact same round with the larger acceptable arc, the MPBR may be 370 yards. But with a smaller target like a prairie dog, 2" lets say, the exact same round may have a MPBR of 140 yards.

So in theory you can place 1 round downrange shooting through an actual pipe the diameter of your acceptable target size.

It takes a bit to really grasp. The last guy I actually taught it to placed 2 shots on 2 elk on total faith. 2 drastically different ranges and 2 dead elk along with 1 amazed friend. But physics is physics and doesn't change because of who's pulling the trigger.
 
It does work in theory, but there's a basic problem in practice, especially as you get to longer distances.

Using (some of) NdIndy's good explanation above, add in the inaccuracy factor of your rifle plus the inaccuracy factor of the shooter. Just for grins lets say those two factors combined equal 1moa or 3 in @ 300yds (which would be very good shooting).

Long winded calculation made short, your 6" MPBR kill zone just went out the window.

There's really no substitute for knowing where your bullet is going to hit at any range you will be shooting, and aiming accordingly.
 
Ya, it's a hunting tool, not precision. I usually go tighter, so 4-5" for a 6" target or there-abouts. So far has worked out to 440 by laser, at least if you listen to the meat in the freezer
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Figure the bullet does exactly the same thing regardless of whether you shoot to a 0 or another method, it's just a different way of thinking about WHAT the bullet is doing. If you do the 200 yard zero and know you can hold dead on to 300 with the round, you're still using MPBR even if you're thinking zero. Even with MPBR there is a definite 0 at some point, it's just usually an odd one like 192.7 yards. Once what the bullet does after leaving the barrel really clicks in your head it's just up to you how you think about it. The downrange result is the same.

The biggest bonus isn't accuracy, obviously. It's speed. There is no check range = x number of clicks to adjust or Y number of (hopefully) inches to adjust aim. It's just either in range, or it isn't. If it's in range, and a makeable shot you take it. If it's out of range and a makeable shot you have to make an adjustment.

And with anything if you're playing on the very edge of what the bullet/rifle/and you can do, you're increasing the odds of a bad hit. Figure with any MOA rifle your odds of screwing up the shot regardless of what aiming method you use are equal. If I'm going to miss at 400, I'm probably going to miss at 400 no matter what I do.

The key though to any aiming system, is to know your rifle, know your system and to practice practice practice
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Toby10: Sorry, I didn't realize you were asking for an explanation of MPBR. I thought you were just asking for opinions about the practice.

NdIndy: Good explanation/drawing.

Good points, Leon. The other problem is that all coyotes aren't created equal and there are a lot of five inch coyotes as well. Again, the theory is good but the practice sometimes doesn't hold water. It is definirely more forgiving on big game but I still don't max out the midrange trajectory for all of the same reasons.
 
Toby10:

The info given here on MPBR is all OK, the Lyman #47 and #48 manuals (older manuals) both have an excellent explanation of it. Point is, when you see a smaller target in the field, you cannot re-adjust the current MPBR established for deer to fit a coyote...SO....you set it to start with for your most likely game pursued with that weapon...

For your 22/250, just sight it in to be dead-on at 200 yards +/-, and know the trajectoy of that sight in, both at ranges shorter than 200 and ranges longer than 200 yards

The Nosler #4 manual has a complete ballistics table for all caliber bullets [perhaps not the 204 Ruger or 17, but the rest) at all velocities and ranges from 0-600 yards.

With the Nosler #4 or similar manual's table, you can figure out a chart with the drop for your particular bullets used and the [estimated] velocities at 50, 100, 200,300 yards, and for wind drift caused by of 10,15,20miles per hour. Your chart will not be super spot on, but pretty darn close; tape it to your rifle as a reference piece, and you will eventually memorize it.

Good hunting.
 
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Use it on every single rifle i own. tape a small paper on the inside of your scope cover with your MPBR and other info for quick reference.
 
i have found it is easier to learn hold over for long distance shots. Sight in at 200, put a target at 400 and shoot it like 200. measure your drop, and mark your impacts with duct tape horizontally then go back to 400 and see what it looks like in your scope, ie. where it might set on your reticle, maybe on a mil dot or where the duplex meets on the crosshair, repeat for 300, 500 etc. right it down or make a cheat sheet. I have found mpbr to be good in theory, but a 75 yard pd you are holding really low, I like crosshairs on hair.
 
Originally Posted By: BuckeyeSpecialToby10:

The info given here on MPBR is all OK, the Lyman #47 and #48 manuals (older manuals) both have an excellent explanation of it. Point is, when you see a smaller target in the field, you cannot re-adjust the current MPBR established for deer to fit a coyote...SO....you set it to start with for your most likely game pursued with that weapon...

For your 22/250, just sight it in to be dead-on at 200 yards +/-, and know the trajectoy of that sight in, both at ranges shorter than 200 and ranges longer than 200 yards

The Nosler #4 manual has a complete ballistics table for all caliber bullets [perhaps not the 204 Ruger or 17, but the rest) at all velocities and ranges from 0-600 yards.

With the Nosler #4 or similar manual's table, you can figure out a chart with the drop for your particular bullets used and the [estimated] velocities at 50, 100, 200,300 yards, and for wind drift caused by of 10,15,20miles per hour. Your chart will not be super spot on, but pretty darn close; tape it to your rifle as a reference piece, and you will eventually memorize it.

Good hunting.

Ya, forgot that part except in the 1st post. I sight rifles for the animal I'm hunting, so I may be sighted in for elk with a large MPBR, or if I'm only deer/antelope I'm sighted in for smaller target so a closer/tighter MPBR. I'm I'm doing both deer and elk, sight in for the smaller target and closer MPBR. Anything outside that range, you adjust. It still comes down to knowing if/when to adjust and how much
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One of the nice things about having lots of guns, I can use 1 for each type of animal and don't have to screw around with resighting. So quit reading the internet and go buy more rifles
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