AR 15 and 6mm calibers

Originally Posted By: MerditOriginally Posted By: DiRTY DOG
The major difference between them is the quality of barrel. The Shilen 6DTI barrel is clearly superior.
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I believe Shilen barrels are good stuff, so I can't say that you're wrong on the superiority of the barrel. However, I would like to know your reasoning.
Shilen's reputation stands on it's own, and Mike @ Dtech's chambering and finishing is impecible.

Compare that to 6x6.8. The old BHW barrels were hit or miss, some out of spec, some super picky, some only shoot certain bullets and maybe not the one you were hoping, some just sucked. I had two *****y BHW barrels in a row. RPG stopped using BHW for his 6x6.8 builds but they still pop up in the classifieds if you want a used one. Now RPG uses a no-name brand barrel (he does not advertise who makes the barrel). Go ahead and try to find anything about the barrel maker let alone some accuracy reviews besides from one or two fanboys on PM.

Comparable to a Dtech Shilen? You decide. The price is similar, that's about it.
 
My 22" 6DTI offers 90% of the performance of a 22" 243 Winchester, and it does it from the smaller and lighter AR 15 platform and with less recoil and blast. 55gr and 80gr are both 90% of a 243. My 6DTI hammers coyotes plenty well.

Adding the bulk and weight of an AR 10 just to gain 10% performance in 243 (or 6Creed) is not worth it to me in a field gun where the bulk of my predators are called to less than 150 yards anyways. I do a LOT of hiking while hunting and the smaller platform is adventagous.
 
I have a White Oak Armament 22 Nosler and really like it. Shoot 55 gr. lead with it. I want something to shoot heavier lead to buck wind better.
 
The 243 is heavy but I like that the brass is common as easy to find as mosquitoes here in WI. I had a few shooters give me a little over 300 once fired 243 brass casings last year.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d like a lighter 6mm AR, but lighter comes with a price. To shave 2 pounds costs about $2/3G to buy a custom rig VS $299 for the 6.4 pound BCA 20” upper I just ordered. My lower weighs 2 pounds so 8 1/2 pounds without an optic or ammo. I’m sure I will get it to shoot just as tight or better as my other one with the right hand load. I can always whip out my POF P415 14.5” if I want lighter. It consistently groups .3” at 200 yards with a 60 grain vmax and 25 grains of benchmark. But my POF isn’t much lighter. I’m gonna have to try to shoot a lighter 243 one of these days. All I know is my little 243 Remington 600 bolt has a pretty good amount of recoil...not that it hurts. But I like to actually somewhat keep a site picture after I pull the trigger and with that little light “daisy BB gun similar weight” with the 600 and staying on my sight picture...it’s not happening. But it sure makes a great walking predator rig if I want to go light. I have it free floated, bedded, and a rifle basics trigger adjusted pretty light. It cloverleaves with my hand loads. I’m assuming if I got much lighter in an AR configuration it’s going to be harder to keep on target with a rapid fire versus a little heavier rifle in my chambering.
 
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Look into the 6mm advanced rifle cartridge. Apparently a company (most likely Hornady) just got SAAMI approval for an AR15 6mm based on the Grendel case. I know there maybe wildcats out there that may eek out a few more FPS, but it would be awesome to have a 6mm AR15 cartridge that has factory backing from a big company like Hornady (think of how the 260 was around forever, but the 6.5 creedmoor blew up because it was completely backed by Hornady). I guess there is speculation that it would have been announced at NRA, but the current COVID situation delayed a full press release. Also here is the SAAMI design from their website
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/6mm-ARC-Public-Introduction.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: cgbillsLook into the 6mm advanced rifle cartridge. Apparently a company (most likely Hornady) just got SAAMI approval for an AR15 6mm based on the Grendel case. I know there maybe wildcats out there that may eek out a few more FPS, but it would be awesome to have a 6mm AR15 cartridge that has factory backing from a big company like Hornady (think of how the 260 was around forever, but the 6.5 creedmoor blew up because it was completely backed by Hornady). I guess there is speculation that it would have been announced at NRA, but the current COVID situation delayed a full press release. Also here is the SAAMI design from their website
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/6mm-ARC-Public-Introduction.pdf

I agree, when Hornady comes out with this it's going to take the lions share of the market away from the wildcats and be a huge hit imo. People love the Grendel more and more, but many want a lighter bullet and more velocity.
 
I just dont see the draw to shortened cases with less powder space and heavier bullets.....especially for predator hunting. It's like the valkyrie they have these high BC rounds that people don't even shoot far enough to take advantage of BC.
It's like building a drag car out of a 6 cyl. station wagon and adding more weight where the other 2 cylinders would be.
They will argue there's consistency in mass but I will argue it's also painfully slow.
I guess advertising causes need.

I cant believe the 6 hagar has made a comeback yet now that brass became available.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223I just dont see the draw to shortened cases with less powder space and heavier bullets.....especially for predator hunting. It's like the valkyrie they have these high BC rounds that people don't even shoot far enough to take advantage of BC.
It's like building a drag car out of a 6 cyl. station wagon and adding more weight where the other 2 cylinders would be.
They will argue there's consistency in mass but I will argue it's also painfully slow.
I guess advertising causes need.

I cant believe the 6 hagar has made a comeback yet now that brass became available.

AMEN!!

Greg
 
I agree. I like the extra speed and shock value of a full size cartridge. To save 2 pounds between a AR 15 vs a 10 and loose 400 FPS velocity doesn’t excite me. I never heard of some one who couldn’t handle the recoil of a 243 so they switched to a Grendel or 6 mm PPC.
 
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the problem is everyone wants to be a sniper. They did offer the 22 nosler, but I don't think many people have bought one.

the real solution is a totally new case. imagine a grendel case that is the same lenght as the 223 case or even the 6.8 case? I think someone needs to just do a BR case. yes I know there plenty of people that have done a BR case in an AR, but the real solution would be a little bit larger barrel extension and probably a slightly larger upper.

the 223 is just so smothering to it, you have nearly free brass and cheap ammo, parts etc. I hope we see a day where we have plug in play parts widely out there for larger cases in the AR 15, I would like to see a case that holds 40 grains or more.

I would probably do a 6mm hagar or 243 WSSM. the other that is interesting is the 20 nosler. again something that isn't offered.
 
I almost went 243 wssm before I did my last 243 A.R. 10 but decided after trying to save 2 pounds and adding 200fps by going with the short mag and spending umpteen dollars on non existent casings that are about as easy to find as a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow turned me off. I heard the casings don’t last very long either Which doesn’t shock me.
 
So a factory round that should basically duplicate 3 pretty popular wildcats doesn't interest anyone? Interesting how fast people lose interest and move on.

I'm kind of in the same boat. My G2 243 fits a nearly perfect balance, figuratively and literally. Light as an ar15, full power 243. Cheap available brass and factory ammo, good performance. Barrel life and powder usage are the only downfalls. The small cases get within 200 fps with 10 to 15 grains less powder.

The Wssm is an absolute hammer, it will outrun the 243 win. I see brass all over, and have enough to wear out a couple barrels easily. I annealed the brass I use, and I see no signs of it giving up, can't remember how many loads some of it has. Not worried about it at all, but it won't get shot much if the G2 proves out with good accuracy to 500 yards, if I ever get a chance to test out my best load. Weather and work are always in the way!
 
Originally Posted By: 204 ARSo a factory round that should basically duplicate 3 pretty popular wildcats doesn't interest anyone? Interesting how fast people lose interest and move on.It's not out yet. The gun world is used to empty promises, poorly planned rollout dates and ammo availability etc. Several recent offerings (aimed at heavy bullet enthusiasts) have turned out to be less than stellar. With current component shortages it's not looking like a good time to introduce a new cartridge. Time will tell.
 
At the time a picked up a G2 on trade..It was brand new, and had 0.0 alternative offerings.Now that there is barreled options in 6CM..You might want to look at it.
 
When BCA makes a 243 WSSM barrel or upper I’ll be the first to buy one. But until then I’ll keep plugging away with my 243’s. I’ll end up running 55 grainers through the short mag so I’m guessing the accuracy won’t hold on for ever.
 
Originally Posted By: DultimatpredatorWhen BCA makes a 243 WSSM barrel or upper I’ll be the first to buy one.

Yikes, I'm scared of getting even a 300 BO from them. No way I'd want to touch off one of those little wssm bombs in something they made, knowing the lack of quality control they've shown. Not much steel left around that fat case and I'd want to know it was made by someone with a good track record.
 
I run a 24” DNA firearm systems 6 creed AR10 with a 1/10 twist short throat chamber and my 70 NBT’s are running at about 3650. Stupid accurate and the star line SRP brass has been great and easy to find. I don’t think you can beat it for a repeater.
 
Has anybody mentioned the 6MM Mongoose?

I love this cartridge and I'm a 6mm junkie. My 18" barrel is getting 87gr Vmax right at 2800fps. It shoots 70gr bullets close to 3000fps. It's based off the .223 cartridge so brass is easy to find.

To make brass you just resize .223 brass in the FL die. Then trim and shoot to fire form.

Mad dog weapon systems does a great job and has tons of load data.

I shot a 300lb hog with it this past February.

Check it out. Itll do 400-500yds on prairie dogs and coyotes easy. Dont forget that there is NO recoil on this cartridge which we know is a benefit when shooting prairie dogs.
 
Originally Posted By: 204 AROriginally Posted By: DultimatpredatorWhen BCA makes a 243 WSSM barrel or upper I’ll be the first to buy one.

Yikes, I'm scared of getting even a 300 BO from them. No way I'd want to touch off one of those little wssm bombs in something they made, knowing the lack of quality control they've shown. Not much steel left around that fat case and I'd want to know it was made by someone with a good track record.
FWIW I put a bca 16" 300 blk out barrel on one of their sidecharging uppers last fall and it shoots very good with the 1st 110 vmax h110 load I put through it. Other than some apparent assembly issues I think they make a pretty decent product. Only manufacturing type issue I've seen are some damaged crowns and crowning tool bushing type mark just inside the bore. I also had one carrier that had the hole that the rear of the bolt passed through that was machined a bit big allowing too much gas to leak through. I fought a short cycling issue for a while over it. I know what to look for now though. I think I currently have 14 side, ambedextrios or dual charge uppers that all run and shoot great not to mention the others I've screwed together for friends. Makes everything else obsolete for me given the price. The upside to a few issues is that it will turn you into a heck of an AR-15 mek a neck.
 
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Originally Posted By: AcroninHas anybody mentioned the 6MM Mongoose?

I love this cartridge and I'm a 6mm junkie. My 18" barrel is getting 87gr Vmax right at 2800fps. It shoots 70gr bullets close to 3000fps. It's based off the .223 cartridge so brass is easy to find.

To make brass you just resize .223 brass in the FL die. Then trim and shoot to fire form.

Mad dog weapon systems does a great job and has tons of load data.

I shot a 300lb hog with it this past February.

Check it out. Itll do 400-500yds on prairie dogs and coyotes easy. Dont forget that there is NO recoil on this cartridge which we know is a benefit when shooting prairie dogs.



I followed it since its inception. In my particular situation it offers nothing that the 6X45 that I've been shooting for three decades does. I don't fire form or trim. I've killed countless prairie dogs with the 6X45 and have brought home a small truck full of Gold at matches all over the US since the early 90's.

Each to his own but cutting down a 223 and dealing with the forming just don't get my juices flowing. I've got plenty of wildcat ARs in 6MM but this one just doesn't make the cut. YMMV

Greg
 


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