AR-15 and "the cold" ...magazine-feed action issues

i WOULD NOT use CLP. i have had extremely bad luck with it. i know some guys really like it, but it's job is to both clean and lubricate. if you have the standard setup still, you are going to get some carbon blown back into the action, and clp will break the carbon down.

on my m-16's, i have always gone dry in cold weather (or sometimes a very light lube to deal with condensation), and, since my recent desert tour, i started using 10 weight oil, or 10w30, depending what i could find.

i don't mean to cast any doubt on the usefulness of CLP, and if it works for you, then use it. i just haven't had good luck with it. i also realize that some AR's are finicky, and prefer one kind of lube over another, and sometimes no lube at all. spend some time experimenting.
 
I've had 2 Bushmasters that I've had to tighten gas key screws on. Made them into single shots. Both had about 1,000 rds. Remove the screws, degrease, a little loctite and put it all back together fixed the problem. On the bolt carrier, if it's shiny, oil it with some BreakFree. You will notice ridges on the bottom and top of the carrier where it slides in the receiver. Short stroking means loss of gas pressure usually. First thing to check is your gas rings and gas key on top of the carrier. Like said, go to AR15.com to learn all the tricks on ARs.
 
I appreciate all the ideas, amigos. Thanks. Looks like a little experimentation will be needed here.

I think I will also attempt to check the rings and the gas block as well--- Sounds like dogXduk is having a potentially similar issue, but at higher temps...
 
Quote:
Anytime I think the extreme cold will affect my action, I just throw another log in the fireplace. It got down to 30 degrees here last night /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif I wish it would warm up so I could go hunting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Hey, Randy;

My guess it's both extreme cold and old age that affect your action. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

As for CLP....or just about any other lubricant.....if you use too much of it, it's just like anything else over-applied to an AR....it's gonna' cause problems.

Learn proper maintenance procedures for the AR and you'll likely not have too many issues. If you add 5 quarts at every oil change, your AR is not gonna' run like your GMC/Ford/Dodge/etc. does. (Just trying to be politically correct about vehicles here... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif )

JMO - BCB
 
one other thought, clean the mag and use some dry grafite in the mag(The stuff locksmiths use on locks)we use to do that in Germany, worked well.
 
Quote:
duxdog:

Several things you might check real quick:

1. Are the three gas rings staggered so the openings aren't lined up?

2. Is the gas tube open completely? And the barrel bleed hole open?

3. Any evidence of gas leaks around the gas port/front sight/sight block or around the carrier key n the bolt carrier?

4. Did you just start reloading for the AR and are you sure the rounds will cycle it?



I just checked the gas rings and they were still staggered some but I now have them set at 120degrees apart from each other.

I see no evidence of gas leaks.

The ammo I'm using is not my reloads but from a company like Black Hills. Powder is 23.8gr of Win 748 and 60gr V-max bullet for about 2900fps. I don't know the primer. They cycled fine earlier.

I just wiped any sign of oil off but it actually looked pretty dry to me.

I'll shoot it again in the morning.

Thanks for the sugestions!
 
Hunted with mine all weekend in minus 10-15 degree weather...I wiped my AR so it is VERY dry....learned that long ago shooting semi-auto shotguns...if it's going to be single digits or lower, wipe off all the oil you can.
 
Quote:
Towards the end I had to use the "Bolt charger" every couple rounds to close the bolt.



I'm guessing you are referring to the "forward assist."

Check that the gas key (the tube on top of the bolt carrier) is tight, and that the gas tube (above the chamber in the charging handle channel--what the gas key mates with) is straight.

Get a chamber brush and clean it out real good.

With the action shotgunned open and the barrel vertical, pull the bolt carrier back about a couple inches and let it drop. Assuming everything is cleaned and properly lubed, the bolt carrier assembly should go fully forward into battery. If not, something is too tight, bent, or just wrong.

When you oil it, place a drop of oil on your finger and roll the bolt gas rings and the band (just behind the locking lug of the bolt) around on your finger. Reassemble the bolt carrier and with carrier held vertically, place a drop of oil on each of the 4 contact rails of the bolt carrier and let it run down. Reassemble the rifle.

For oil I use Firepower FP-10. Used it through Iraq for the M16 and the 50 cal. Worked great as a lube and a cleaner.
 
BroncoGlenn:

Your post is referencing (Re)duxndog in the heading, but the quote is from Mudgoat in his first post. It threw me for a minute as I thought I had totally mis-read duxndog's post....

Anyway, Mudgoat sounds like he's having bolt locking issues likely caused by dirt/over-oiling where duxndog first post sounds like he's having short stroke problems.

-BCB
 
Quote:
Quote:
Anytime I think the extreme cold will affect my action, I just throw another log in the fireplace. It got down to 30 degrees here last night /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif I wish it would warm up so I could go hunting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Hey, Randy;

My guess it's both extreme cold and old age that affect your action. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

hay randy dont fell bad i am right there with you.these old bones hurt with the weather like it is now.
 
Quote:
duxdog first post sounds like he's having short stroke problems.
-BCB


What choo tokin bout Willis! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

To clarify...my RIFLE IS having the short stroke problem. My wife never says that's a problem. Just look at that smile!
daroxy1.jpg
hollywd2.jpg
 
BCB: Sorry for the ambiguity, dukxdog just had the reply button that I hit.

Dukxdog: With a round single loaded into the chamber and an empty magazine in the mag well, will it fire and then lock the bolt to the rear? If it does, most common culprit is a weak magazine spring.

Shotgun the action, make sure the bolt carrier slides easily in the upper. Make sure the buffer can slide far enough back in the buffer tube to accommodate the bolt. Pull the buffer and spring out and make sure they're not damaged and that it is the correct one. Look down the buffer tube and make sure nothing is in there. You should see light through the vent hole in the upper buttplate screw. Also, inspect that the gas tube isn't loose, particularly at the front sight tower/gas block and ensure that part is tight as well.


Never stretch a spring. Wait a sec, let me rephrase that:

NEVER STRETCH A SPRING!!!

I'm not saying you are or you did, (this is more of a public service announcement than anything) but people have a tendency to stretch mag springs thinking it will fix weak spring problem. The easiest way to destroy a spring is to stretch it or over compress it. If you need new springs, go direct to www.ismi-gunsprings.com. Don't waste your time with anything else.
 
Quote:

What choo tokin bout Willis! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif



duxndog:

LOL!! I definitely was referrng to your rifle....! The AR you mentioned....

My appologies to the entire family...!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Other than the rifle problem, you appear to be doing just fine.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

-BCB
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif and another thread has taken a wayward turn. Ya just got to love this place. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Wow... I think there's an obvious item being overlooked here. Is your empty being ejected and then the next live round not being loaded?

You probably have a loose carrier key. Common to find this after a short run of firing when your AR is new. The carrier key will work loose, just a bit and it will cause your AR to short stroke. Tighten it down as tight as you can go then you use a punch to "stake" the key in place. Check out AR15.com forums for some tips on how to do this properly.

Chances are it was staked at the factory, but they are staked before firing, and it never fails they all seem to come loose after 50-100 rounds when they're new. I Staked mine after it came loose nad have since had about 1500 rds throug it without the same problem.
 
Quote:
Wow... I think there's an obvious item being overlooked here. Is your empty being ejected and then the next live round not being loaded?

You probably have a loose carrier key. Common to find this after a short run of firing when your AR is new. The carrier key will work loose, just a bit and it will cause your AR to short stroke. Tighten it down as tight as you can go then you use a punch to "stake" the key in place. Check out AR15.com forums for some tips on how to do this properly.

Chances are it was staked at the factory, but they are staked before firing, and it never fails they all seem to come loose after 50-100 rounds when they're new. I Staked mine after it came loose nad have since had about 1500 rds throug it without the same problem.



It wasn't overlooked.... I mentioned it as something to look for back on page one....check for leaks around....

I just gave duxndog enough credit that he would check the screws if he saw any evidence of leakage.

BTW, what kind of bolt carriers are you using that it's "Common to find this after a short run of firing when your AR is new"....? I've owned a lot of AR's since the 1980's and only one had this problem. It was with my first and last parts gun bought from a firm noted for selling notoriously poor quality bolt carriers over the years. I've bought several other parts kits from other vendors and never had a problem with any of them or with a fully built factory rifle.

Sure, it happens occasionally. Again, that's why I mentioned it as a place to check for evidence of gas leakage on page one. But the frequency of it happening is far from a statement such as, "....it never fails they all seem to come loose after 50-100 rounds when they're new." Unless maybe you continue to buy the same faulty poor quality bolt carrriers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

JMO - BCB
 
Quote:
Dukxdog: With a round single loaded into the chamber and an empty magazine in the mag well, will it fire and then lock the bolt to the rear? If it does, most common culprit is a weak magazine spring.
I fired 5 rounds this morning after wiping any sign of oil AND making sure the gas rings are evenly spaced at 120 degrees. it chambered each roung okay but on the last round it did not lock open. I will fire individual rounds with an EMPTY mag tomorrow to see if it stays open

Shotgun the action, What is SHOTGUN? make sure the bolt carrier slides easily in the upper. slides easily Make sure the buffer can slide far enough back in the buffer tube to accommodate the bolt. it does Pull the buffer and spring out and make sure they're not damaged and that it is the correct one. Look down the buffer tube and make sure nothing is in there. You should see light through the vent hole in the upper buttplate screw. Also, inspect that the gas tube isn't loose, it is tight with no leaks the carrier key is also tight particularly at the front sight tower/gas block and ensure that part is tight as well.




thanks for the suggestions guys. I want to get this fixed.
 
try this with an empty mag.NO AMMO PRESENT OR NEEDED!

Put an empty mag in on the closed bolt.

Pull the charging handle all the way back, hold it to the count of 2 then let it fly forward. Does it stay open?

If it closes, try another mag. It should stay open.

Make sure your bolt catch lever moves freely. This or faulty mags could be the culprit if it won't stay open on the last round.
 
Back
Top