AR15 ACCURACY?

Coyotejunki

Coyotejunki

Well-known member
I am curious what kind of accuracy everyone is getting with their AR's. I mean real, repeatable accuracy not a one time group that is saved and hung on the wall.
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I am still trying to get the best consistent accuracy out of my AR's and I just can't repeat it day to day. I have to assume it's me, not the rifle. One day I can shoot a 1/2" group and the nest it's 1.5 - 2" at 100yds.

Just wish I could shoot them as accurate as my bolt action rifles.
 
I only have one AR. A RRA ATH. It's picky about loads. But with loads it likes, it's a bonafide one MOA, day in, day out. I suspect many would call it a 1/2" rifle, because if you only shoot three shot groups with it and throw out the bad ones, that's what you'd call it
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- DAA
 
The Sierra #1390 (55gr HPBT Game King) is the answer to an AR-15 that won't shoot well.

Try it with 26.5-26.9 grains of W748, 24.4 - 24.8 grains of AA2015 or 25.5 - 26.1 grains of H4895.

I have ran all those loads in various rifles with extremely pleasing results compared to many previous bang head on concrete shooting sessions....

I have multiple rifles that shoot under 1 MOA. Some loadings where extremely hard fought!!!!!! All of the high quality barrels where fairly easy to get to shoot.

I have been where you are. If "the load" is not consistent, it is not "the load". If it will not duplicate the group size via MOA at 200 yards, it is not the "load either"

You may also have a flash hider or muzzle break that is F'#%$'ing with your accuracy. You will see a difference right away if you take it off or put a suppressor on. Ever hear that some folks rifles shoot better suppressed?

Being in-between Point of impact shifts always results in fliers when a variable changes.

Crappy barrels are crappy barrels. It's cheaper to buy a good one.

The most accurate bullet i have ever fired is the Nosler 55 grain Ballistic Tip. I have only shot it in one rifle though.... I often wonder how it would shoot in others? But... After all the work i have done getting the others to shoot what they shoot, thats it!!! No more tinkering and fussing ever again.
 
1 inch 5 shot groups center to center about any day.
.75" on the great days.
.5" unicorn wall hanger groups on rare occasion.

When that rare one slips just out over an inch blame it on something that's not worth chasing and move one.

When I get to this point I have learned to stop. There are too many variables to fight when you combine ammo and AR tolerance stack. This is with a quality trigger and barrel combined with the cheapest other parts and taylored hand loads with no crazy attention to brass prep or any weight sorting etc.

 
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I kind of figured 1 MOA was good for MOST AR's. I wonder if it is me behind the trigger? I guess I will find a known good AR shooter and let them try it after I play around a little more. I shoot suppressed. but I think I hold the rifle too loose, occasionally getting double taps, like bump firing. Been advised to hold the rifle tighter. I loaded some more ammo, will try as soon as the ice clears a bit more off the streets.

Right now I am focused on the 60 VMAX and 50 Nosler BT, and Benchmark. Varget sometimes shoots good w/the 60's for me. 1-8 twist barrels.
 
Originally Posted By: arlaunchThe Sierra #1390 (55gr HPBT Game King) is the answer to an AR-15 that won't shoot well.

Try it with 26.5-26.9 grains of W748, 24.4 - 24.8 grains of AA2015 or 25.5 - 26.1 grains of H4895.



I have some Sierra #1360's and the above powder, I will also try the 55 Nosler BT's, don't have any #1390's
 
I went through the 60 grain V-max trials not long ago. I tried Varget, AR-Comp and AA-2015 in that order.

AA-2015 was hands down, vastly superior! Less POI shift for the whole target, better velocity, and way better accuracy.

I would like to think Benchmark would be similar but have no experience with that combo.

I load the bi-pod and sand bags hard, also i push down so hard on the butt-stock with my cheek that the trigger pull can't move the rifle laterally.

Try locking it down.
 
Good barrels and consistent ammo gives pretty consistent 0.75 groups with most of mine. 0.5 is not all that rare. I do plead guilty to working hard at the bench with a plethora of component combinations but Moore often than not the 0.75 baseline gets reached PDQ and I'm just wondering about what it's at that point. I shoot very few AR's that have run if the mill factory barrels. The best one is an OLY Ultramatch and even that was not OEM grade.

Greg
 
Just recently i found a rifle that did not have "pure" consistency. I am currently blaming the cheap scope that sits on it. I think on that combo, if you change or alter where your cheek weld is, the parallax gets you. (only at distance)

I suspect that because my first - third series of load development shot MOA or under from start to finish.

No science... Likely just a random guess.
 
All of my scopes are vx 1 and v16 types. I've threatened to buy a high end load data scope many times but haven't. I also think that is a limiting accuracy factor.

Ammo take a beating in the autoloading process as well.
 
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I sort my brass because some mil spec foreign stuff is 5-7 grains heavier than most. Just stick to one brand and vintage if the case head is dated.
Three different rifles (all ARs not all mine) that I load for will shoot the 60gr V-max into < 1 MOA with 23.5gr Benchmark 2.26" OAL & Fed 205M primers in prepped LC mil spec brass. I doubt the match primers make much difference. No runners with the last 6-8 coyotes.
 
Visit AR15.com and find the "MOA ALL DAY CHALLENGE" thread. There is some great information to be found as well as some flat out BS... some guys have been called out over the years on their claims.

For the most part, and generally speaking, gas guns and bolt guns are apples to oranges when it comes to what it takes to achieve MOA or SUB-MOA results. Sure, there are some high-quality rigs that produce sub-MOA groups ON DEMAND, but the entire set up (rifle, scope, ammo, shooter) are of quality. Any one of the aforementioned aspects can be the weak link.

If an "MOA" rifle cannot duplicate MOA performance ON DEMAND every time, it's not an MOA rifle. Problem is, like mentioned already, people cherry-pick a group and represent their rifle as such.

Personally, I think an AR15 that can be counted on to shoot a 5-shot MOA group is an excellent performer. The internet has people believing any and all semi-auto gassers should be MOA/SUB-MOA... that's unrealistic unless great care is used to source parts, assemble those parts, and then complement the build with quality ammo and a shooter who can extract the most performance possible.

If you can shoot 1' to 1 1/2" every time all the time, with over-the-counter standard parts... you're not doing too bad in my opinion.
 
Some are better than others, but I will say mine have steadily progressed over the last 10-15 years. I attribute this to progress in my loading technique and testing methods, but mostly having a range at home makes load work up much more efficient obviously. Also, several years ago I started testing loads at 200 most of the time. It really seems to help with a better end result. I think this is due to recoginizing vertical or horizontal trends easier and adjusting the load to eliminate it. Many times, vertical is charge weight, horizontal is seating depth. At closer range a purely horizontal group may be an acceptable size and be considered good, only to fall apart further out. I want nice, 1" or less 3 shot triangle groups at 200. I would accept slightly larger.

Hunting ar's I'm usually shooting 3 shot groups with the faster calibers, just to preserve components and barrel life. If all the groups are in the same relative position, and no un-explainable wild fliers, I'm confident in that. Testing over several days and multiple seasons is important to me as it seems some combos are fickle to conditions and I want to know that. Coyote and deer rifles use only temp stable powders, even if it means a slight drop in velocity. Summer rifles, I actually prefer stuff like A2230 or H335 as I'm only out shooting pdogs in warm weather usually.

Bench technique is simply a single cloth shot bag full of sand under the float tube and another under the heal of the stock. Those are rested on blocks of wood the right height. I gave up on my nice rest long ago as the sand bags work better for me. Bipods gave too inconsistent results and I don't like them much at all anymore, I use sticks in the field and do final zeroing off the them, or the new tripod for night guns. I tried a lead sled a couple of times and hated it.

I don't wrestle with an ar any more than a bolt gun, I don't know where "hold em tight" comes from. Sometimes I'm even using my left hand to block the setting sun from my eyes.

With suppressors, I discovered a couple of years ago how important thread fit is to accuracy, at least with direct threads. I had one, in fact maybe my most accurate ar (and rifle probably), look like it had potential but groups were inconsistent. It had very sloppy 5/8 threads from the factory. I started experimenting with white teflon tape on the threads, and it turned into that sub 1", 200 yd group type of rifle, Every time, and most are under 3/4".

This is just a few things I've observed over the years, hth.
 
Well, I was able to get decent/pretty good groups with Benchmark and Nosler 50gr BT's. Around 3/4" @ 100, the 60 Vmax best groups would do about 1". I think I will try some of the above mentioned powders with the 60's to see if I can get better consistent groups.

Originally Posted By: varminter .2231 inch 5 shot groups center to center about any day.
.75" on the great days.
.5" unicorn wall hanger groups on rare occasion.

When that rare one slips just out over an inch blame it on something that's not worth chasing and move one.
 
I have uppers assembled with barrels costing 50.00(new) to 400.00. A properly fitted hand guard, gas block and barrel nut, along with a good trigger are necessary for accuracy. With load development groups equal bolt guns. If your groups open up after a few rounds out of a magazine, try single loading(don't strip off a mag) a 10 shot group. If single loading results in a better group, your load probably needs more "neck tension" for magazine firing.
 
Back in 2004, I sent a 20 Tactical Tromix T&E gun to Dane Hobbs, gun writer for Small Caliber News.
He worked up a pile of different loads and finally settled on the best for the gun. Then he fired about thirty 5 shot groups at 100 yards with the best load and counted EVERY shot. That included called flyers, wind issues whatever. Every shot was counted and the gun averaged .4"

In order to average .4", he shot a bunch of groups in the 1's, 2's, and 3's and of course quite a few groups went over .4" as well. I am not sure you can do much better than that with an AR. You can read all about it in the Spring 2004 edition of Small Caliber News.

Sadly, sales of small caliber Tromix AR's were so poor, they were discontinued in favor of the big bores.

Tony Rumore
Tromix

P.S. For a visual, this group is about .4" (average).

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I use a dummy round to make sure m4 ramps and barrel extension do not scratch or mar bullet jackets. A fine small file can be used to remove burrs and/or break sharp edges. You can color the bullet for repeated chamberings as you cleanup ramps. There should be zero bullet jacket/case marks from chambering.
 
I have two Colt 6721's. When I bought each of them, they would shoot 1.5 inch three shot groups pretty consistently. I made some modifications that have turned both into consistent .75 to 1.00 inch shooters. Both of them use 16" Colt HBAR barrels. I've removed the factory handguards and replaced them with forearms that free float the barrels. I've also fit both of them with Timney triggers, and I've mounted Leupold VX !!! scopes in Larue mounts. I hand load 55 grain Sierra Game King HPBT bullets over 25.5 grains of H-335, and both rifles shoot this load very well.
 


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