Ar15 M4 Accuracy?? (Advice needed from the AR Guys)

rockinbbar

rockinbbar

New member
What kind of accuracy are you guys seeing from standard Mil-Spec M-4's?

As I posted earlier, I topped mine off with a Leupold 3-9x40 & basically got 2" groups at 100 yards with it.
(After reading the thread on the Ruger Mini 14, I guess I ought to feel lucky...) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, I thought better of replacing the entire upper.

What I did instead was order a free float tube for the AR.
This ought to make the rifle shoot better immeadiately. I thought also that after only 50 rounds down the tube, that I might polish the barrel as well.
I was told that the mil-spec barrel might need some work, as they can come pretty rough...Can you validate that with your experience?

Here is the rifle in question:

M4B.jpg


What kind of accuracy have you guys experienced from standard rifles like this?
I know free floating the bbl should help. I'm looking for close to MOA out of this rifle, & feel it has the potential....Should this free floating proceedure do that for me? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Also, I got a barrel wrench for the AR on order with the tube. How hard is this going to be, as a home gunsmith operation? Are there any tricks? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

I'm a pretty good gunsmith, but have not had any training on Ar's yet.
I guess I'm working up my knowledge & tools for a custom AR build someday... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I know you guys get tired of "newbie" questions about AR's... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

I'm just a newbie to AR's in the respect of working on them....My custom long-range AR has had plenty down the tube with lots of fur on the ground... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Any input is appreciated!

Barry
 
Is that the mil spec barrel? was it chrome lined? The military only runs them about 7K rounds before replacement. I would get a barrel wear gauge for the muzzel and check the extension and throat. If you are going to free float the barrel you might want to look into changeing out the barrel, you may have to change the nut anyway depending onh the type free float you put on it. Oh with your wrench you should also look into getting the upper holding fixture it clamps the upper in the vise so when you tourque the barrel nut to 65 Lbs Ft you dont twist the upper out of shape.
Go to arf.com they have a long tutorial on building the AR rebarreling changeing free floats ect.

BTW a 2" group is bad for an AR even an M4 profile /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
The Biggest factor in your accuracy was unaddresed by your post. What ammo were you shooting? Alot of ammo out there will not do MOA in any gun.

With the proper ammo it should do MOA.

Your FF tube will help, and easy step by step Instructions with pics are on AR15.com. If you are a Gunsmith, it is a minor operation.

Good luck, you have now shown the second stage signs of BRD, as far as I can tell, it's incurable. LOL


Ricky
 
I shoot the same 55 grain ballistic tips at 3000 fps that I use in my 1-9 (Same twist) custom Ar that groups 1/2" at 100 yards...

I thought the 2" grouping I was getting was poor for the AR, even the M4...That's why I ordered the free float tube, to see what it would do to improve on that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

The barrel is milspec & not chrome lined.

I don't spray & pray...I doubt I'll put 1/2 that number through the barrel. (7000 rounds). I know a lot of guys like banging with their AR's...I do too...I just like to take my time & put them where the crosshairs are aimed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Thanks Guys...
 
Quote:
My M4 is fed reloads with 52grn HP's- it usually shoots 3/4" @ 100yards.



Mine shoots about the same shooting 68 gr hornady's over varget. Also, mine is free floated and I got rid of the bird cage flash hider. Hate em.
 
Quote:
CS,

Does the flash hider hurt accuracy?



They can from what I hear. I can't say for sure as i never fired it for groups with it on. What I can tell you is that there was a ton of carbon built up on the crown that could not have been gotten to with it on. I had to scrape it off with a knife. That can't be good for accuracy to have the crown that fouled up.

Here is a pic of mine with a fake silencer. You can see the crown of the barrel is flush with the front of the fake can.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v56/Lance30/?action=view&current=Dsc00536.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v56/Lance30/?action=view&current=Dsc00537.jpg
 
I cleaned the barrel & chamber good before shooting.
It had so much thick oil in the chamber, I would have felt it not safe to shoot that way.

Thanks for the advice, Crapshoot. I don't really care for the hider either.

As far as I know, I'll not have much occasion to have someone firing at my muzzel flash anyway... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I like the can. If I got one of those, I'd want it to be functional. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Barry
 
I bought the very same gun as yours. At least they look the same. It was an optics ready bushmaster. I put a vxI scope on top of it, and it has a 1-9 twist. Also has the 5.56 chamber. I feed it 60 gn vmaxs with 27 gn of varget, and it shoots .75 moa or under. It took some tinkering with loads to get it to shoot that well. AS I RECALL, it also shot 55gn vmaxs with a full dose of varget real well too. I didn't stay with that load because I wanted a bigger bullet for yotes. Also, I did work up to these full house loads. I didn't start up there. I also seat the bullets out as far as possible since my barrel's throat is deeper that the magazine is long. I use Win cases and Win sr primers. Good luck
 
One more thing: I talking three shot groups. With that little barrel it will start to move once it heats up. I don't care about shot 4 or 5. By the time you get to the fourth round it is basically a Hail Mary shot anyway.

Sorry about rushing thru my post, but the wife finished dinner, and it was great.
 
I plan on getting a real can in due time. But for now, the fake looks cool, only cost $40, and protects the threads all at the same time.
 
Barry,
I have shot alot of 16" RRA CAR uppers with flash hinders and free float hand guards.......no worrries mate they all would shoot just under an inch with BlackHills 50gr Vmax...
I think the flash hider is a good deal for a truck gun. Don't have to worry about the crown as it bangs around on the floor board.

With that said I do not put them on custom uppers that carry Shilen barrels. I do THINK a target crown is better.
Kelly
 
I have an M-4 that looks just like yours.
It has a no name upper I picked up at a gun show( I got it REAL reasonable because it was brand new but the front sight was crooked)
I have a 3-9 redfield on it and it will shoot 3/4" groups all day with my 55 grain Ballistic tip reloads

I think that 2" is awful too a free float tube may help but I would try some different ammo first.

Rick
 
I don't exactly have a M4 barrel but I do have a 16" heavy barrel with flash hider. I get groups under 1.0" with Hornady 55 gr moly tipped ammo.

Check out this thread for a target picture.
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb...part=2&vc=1

You never know I guess. It could be the ammo even though it shoots fine in one gun with the same build type. It's a cheap try to find out.

Good luck.
 
Free float tube will help.

Every AR I've had seemed to shoot better when I got 100-200 rounds through it. I think you will see groups tighten up.

Regarding ammo, I think you will have a harder time finding ammo that shoots bad than the other way around.

Not disputing what Lance said of course. He knows ARs. I really haven't experienced any negative effects from flash hiders myself. I prefer to have them actually. Just personal preference. I sometimes put the muzzle into the floorboard and like having the flash hider protecting the muzzle from any gravel or other debris that might be on the floor.

One of the biggest improvements you can make is the trigger if you haven't already.

Good hunting
 
Quote:
I shoot the same 55 grain ballistic tips at 3000 fps that I use in my 1-9 (Same twist) custom Ar that groups 1/2" at 100 yards...

I thought the 2" grouping I was getting was poor for the AR, even the M4...That's why I ordered the free float tube, to see what it would do to improve on that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

The barrel is milspec & not chrome lined.

I don't spray & pray...I doubt I'll put 1/2 that number through the barrel. (7000 rounds). I know a lot of guys like banging with their AR's...I do too...I just like to take my time & put them where the crosshairs are aimed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Thanks Guys...



Are you just swapping the uppers and using the same lower receiver? The reason I ask is if it is a 100% milspec gun including the lower the trigger leaves a lot to be desired. I have a M4 with standard handguards (no free float) that will shoot 1 MOA with most loads I try. If you have two complete rifles try putting your milspec upper on the lower of your custom AR that is shooting 1/2" groups and see what happens. Your money may be better spent on a good trigger than a new barrel. If you do try a new trigger I recommend the Timney 3lb drop in , it's the best AR trigger I've ever felt by a long shot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
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