Are bushing dies necessary?

Hidalgo

Hidalgo

Well-known member
I don't know if I fit the classification of a "reloader", but I have reloaded my own ammunition for many years now. I've always used "conventional" dies with my reloading. I've never owned a bushing die of any sort, although I do measure my headspace and resize my brass accordingly. My reloads usually shoot to my satisfaction after I do my due diligence by research and experimentation at the range. And while I'm not a competitive shooter I do like to see just how small I can get those groups!

My concern is: Do bushing dies really make that much difference for the hunter and casual shooter like myself? How much can/do they shrink groups? Are they difficult to use initially or are they fairly easy to learn to use? I'm not looking for a tutorial (yet
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) but just some general info and if it would be worth my time and money to replace a few sets of dies?

You guys are a wealth of info .... thanks for letting me pick your brains!
 
They are really quite easy to use. Set up in a FL die you size the case as usual with the bushing in place. Adjusting the bushing up and down handles how much of the neck is sized. A magic marker on the brass gives a a good quick visual or as jewelers loupe for a close exam.

The good thing is that by swapping bushings you can deal with brass thickness variation from brand to brand and as it gets work hardened with more spring back you can adjust with a tighter bushing.

As you know consistency is where it's at and the standard dies do not let you deal with that. One size fits all and the tension will go up and down. Additionally standard dies size down then up making the brass working double. Not good.

I feel there is an increase in accuracy available over standard but there is never a hard fast XXX amount on tap. I have been swapping over to the bushings as much as I can. For me I load 6X45, 223 and 20 Practical all with the same die just with a bushing swap. You could do the same with 243, 260, 7-08 and 308 starting with a 308 base die.

Greg
 
I will comment on what I have found so far. I am sure someone who really knows will be along.
I have Redding comp.dies for my .308. You can get a bushing for exactly the size you want to size the neck. If you don't do something about the expanding button however it will change the neck to whatever it is of course but worse it pulls the neck to one side.
I recently got a run out guage and have found brass out of my chamber has .001 run out.After neck sizing in s type bushing die it has.003 run out.I am working on fixing that.
I have been told that a size die with a mandrel is better and I am thinking it is. I dont have one yet.
I have been reading and it seems a lot of competition shooters are going away from neck sizing to FL dies. They say FL is more consistent over time.Check out accurate shooter and other sites like it. Lots of info there on sizing. Their reasons make sense.
Interested in this subject and looking forward to more knowledgeable posters.
 
Originally Posted By: GLShooter I load 6X45, 223 and 20 Practical all with the same die just with a bushing swap. You could do the same with 243, 260, 7-08 and 308 starting with a 308 base die.

Greg

Now THAT'S interesting.
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If I could load for 243, 7-08, and 6.5c with only a bushing change it would be awesome! (I think)
 
Originally Posted By: HidalgoOriginally Posted By: GLShooter I load 6X45, 223 and 20 Practical all with the same die just with a bushing swap. You could do the same with 243, 260, 7-08 and 308 starting with a 308 base die.

Greg

Now THAT'S interesting.
w00t.gif


If I could load for 243, 7-08, and 6.5c with only a bushing change it would be awesome! (I think)

It is. I load 20LBC 22 LBC 243LBC 25 LBC and 264LBC with one Grendel die plus 20,22,6mm,25 and 6.5 X 6.8 variants with a single 6.8 die.

Greg
 
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Please explain what a bushing die is? I have never used one or have any idea what it is. I have just done basic reloading for over 40 yrs. What is the purpose? Picture maybe? Thanks Rudy
 
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I certainly like them for what they are. Very handy and they can help with accuracy at times. They are pivotal in a tight neck chamber, IMO.
 
They are necessary if you have a rifle with some off the wall, odd ball, "hoping it will make it shoot better" neck size. Beyond that, about all they really shine for is helping to make brass last as long as it possibly can. That might not sound like a big deal, and if you like piddling with case prep then I guess it is not...but consider the expense in time and money of highly prepped brass cases. Now, consider what it might be worth if those same time consuming cases could last at least three or four times longer!!! If you don't shoot a lot, you don't compete or go on exotic, galactically expensive hunting trips where nothing but the best most accurate ammo will do, don't own one of those off the wall accurate custom rifles to cater to then no, unless you just want to play around with the concept.
I have been at this a long time, shot my first sub MOA group in 1980 and what I have learned about accurate rifles didn't come from doing what someone said or following the too often repeated wrong info that nobody seems to question...I have about tried it all and tested what I tried. I will say this...if buying reloading or case prep trinkets were all there was to accuracy then you wouldn't need to ask anyone about it, it would be a well known foregone conclusion. Bushing dies in a rifle that's for "other than benchrest competition" has a lot of things that I would say are a lot more important and able to yield way better results ahead of them.
Maybe another way of saying it is that you can take a mediocre rifle and do a lot of little accuracy tricks to it and all those things together may be able to make the rifle shoot groups that are respectable, and might even pacify you. But, the number one thing all truly accurate "put 'em in the same hole" rifles have is a hummer for a barrel. If you have a great barrel you can leave out the tricks and trinkets and just reload and have fun.
 
How would you answer this: "My factory hunting rifle shoots 5-shots 1/2" to 3/4" consistently at the bench. Will a bushing die improve that over a FL die?"
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGHow would you answer this: "My factory hunting rifle shoots 5-shots 1/2" to 3/4" consistently at the bench. Will a bushing die improve that over a FL die?"

Like everything in shooting....maybe. It might require a bit of case work too like turning, uniforming and deburring on top of the dies. It is a place to start.

Not working the brass an extra amount and controlling neck tension can only be a plus IMHO. I don't find the cost too high because of their versatility when you think that you can have a new caliber change with just a $14.00 bushing it gets pretty cheap.

Greg
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGHow would you answer this: "My factory hunting rifle shoots 5-shots 1/2" to 3/4" consistently at the bench. Will a bushing die improve that over a FL die?"

Well, again...maybe. I might even go so far as to say probably, just for the mental improvement aspect. If you believe they are better or doing something for you it is a fact you will go to the range and have a better probability of shooting better groups. Confidence goes a long way!!! They are not expensive and save brass so if you like the idea then do it. Given the narrow context of the question that's about all anyone can really say. There's just too many unknowns with the rest of what you have there. I would probably answer that question with another one: Exactly how much improvement are you looking for out of a factory hunting rifle that's shooting 1/2" groups consistently???? Most custom hunting rifles wont do that good...and you want more??? From a factory rifle???? Do you realize that most new factory hunting rifles wont shoot 1 1/2" groups and you want better than 1/2"????? Dude...go thank the rifle gods that you were blessed!!!!!
 
Hidalgo, I've never used a bushing die until I put together my 6.5 CM and then I was having a hard time finding benchrest quality dies and wound up getting the Redding type S dies, since Forster was not producing any in that caliber then..

I ordered three neck (.089,.090.&.091) bushings through Midway just to be on the safe side since Hornady factory 6.5 (120gr) was measuring .292", but when I loaded a couple of Sierra 123gr bullets, the cases measured .290"...Hornady indicated that you only need .001" neck tension and they are probably correct, but I've always been more comfortable with ..003-.004" tension for normal shooting...

As to your initial question, I can't say that the accuracy is any better than rounds loaded with quality standard dies...But then, I prefer Forster dies for precision shooting..
 


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