Bad gunsmithing question

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pyscodog

Active member
Its hard to find the right way to word some questions but here goes.
Have you ever paid a gunsmith for work or to install a barrel, ect. and been totally unhappy with the work? There was a smith some of us used and although he was very good, sometimes the work he performed was just what I would call, unfinished. Example, a fluted barrel with the fluted not properly indexed and the writing on the barrel being upside down. Some said, what difference did it make that the flutes weren't index correctly and the writing is upside down, it still shoots good.To me, he just didn't take the time to finish the job. He didn't charge any less. Just a thought setting here having my morning cup of Joe and it crossed my mind.
 
I'd be unhappy for sure and would be looking for a new smith
If he missed something that obvious I'd always wonder what else he may have missed
 
I use one of 5 or 6 really good trustworthy smiths every time I do a build. I won't take any chances with my money. This is of course because I learned the hard way like you did.

I call or email several very reputable guys and just see who has the least workload at the time and send it to them.

Folks like Gradous, Tannel, Beanland, GA, LRI, etc won't do you wrong and have a reputation to protect that they worked hard to build.

I, like you, think a rifle should look as good as it shoots.
 
The smith shouldn't be doing jobs like that in the first place. You should treat it as thou its your reputation on the line. the customer is always right. Other than that, go get a job flipping burgers and quit giving the rest of us a bad name.
 
I don't think you are out of line either. That would bug the [beeep] out of me as well. I would not use that guy again....EVER. I would also have him make it right with you. For me, that gun would have to shoot ridiculously well for me to keep it. Every time I looked at the crap that bothered me, I would be pissed.
 
I'm with everyone else on this, it would piss me off and it would be going back to the gunsmith for him to make it right. If it had to be shipped back, I think the "smith" should have to pay the shipping costs both ways.

I've had builds done by five different gunsmiths as far away as PA, been pretty lucky and only had one little ejection issue with any of them and the gunsmith was willing to pay the shipping cost both ways. I've been lucky enough to have Defensive Edge Rifles, which is only about 25 minutes from my house, do all my rifle work the last few years and couldn't be happier. If a person can find someone, good, that is close enough for them to drive to, IMO, that is by far the best way to go when having work done or a rifle built.
 
you're not out of line at all. machining by its very nature is a precision business. lack of attention to detail is NOT an option. the entire industry is about attention to detail.


not only did i make a smith who screwed my work up pay for the re-smithing and shipping to have it done right at the smith of my choice (ADCO), i also made him replace the barrel he hosed up on me.

the worst part is - in my instance of using this "smith" .... i had asked for probably the simplest modification you can do to a barrel, adding a gas block dimple. i assumed anyone claiming to be a gunsmith would at least be capable of that. index the barrel 180* from the port and touch it with the proper bit. how hard can that be right? when i got my barrel back he had milled (poorly i might add - two passes with the mill, and they were neither lined up nor the same depth) a flat opposite the gas port that was around 3/8" long and about 1/8" wide. not only was it not what i asked him to do - but the milling was so poorly done that it wouldnt have passed HS shop class.

lets just say he'll never so much as touch another part i'll use in any future builds.




in your case.... even once he makes it right, i would avoid this guy like mosquito's near Charlie Sheen's house in the future.

 
The smith is now deceased so Ill not mention his name. He was an old BR shooter and he built a rifle for me and several friends of mine, even a guy or two here on PM. My rifle was un-fluted so I had no issue's with his work. Also, every rifle that I saw shoot, the accuracy was impeccable. He did spend a lot of time on trueing the actions and bolt face too. Seems he ordered the barrels fluted and contoured and when he chambered them, the flute's fell where ever they landed. Not acceptable in my opinion. Seems several people let it pass but I couldn't and wouldn't.
 
Just out of curiosity what should the flutes be indexed to?

I'm not sure the flute location would matter to me, but upside down lettering would drive me nuts.

It seems like everyone would have a preference, but isn't that generally determined by where the threads leave the barrel positioned?

I've never thought about this, but now that I am it seems like you would want a symetrical position as far as stock contact unless you are free floated. I have read a bit about the rigidity added to a barrel, which makes sense along with being lighter.
 
I have two rifles with factory flutes. Both have six flutes. Seems both have a flute on either side parallel with the fore-end of the stock. It was very obvious they needed indexed on the rifles the smith built. Odd number of flutes may be different. It just looked weird to me. And.. the upside down writing would drive me crazy also. May be a mute point to some, IDK???
 
Was the barrel with the upside-down engraving definitely on a new barrel, or could it have been something he set back and rechambered?
 
Nope custom is supposed to be better than factory built. I dont have to hold any of my factory rifles upside down to read the name and caliber.
 
Originally Posted By: sandy hicksNope custom is supposed to be better than factory built. I dont have to hold any of my factory rifles upside down to read the name and caliber.

That's funny, I've never seen upside down writing either.
 
Not that I'm defending the smith & without deeper knowledge a lot of this is a guess; but...

If your re-using factory barrels it sounds like (likely) you where trying to save a bit of money on the project. Not all but many times a person can take the factory barrel & screw it down tight on a "like" action & headspace is good (or for some guys "good enough"). If it doesn't headspace correctly, the smith has to chuck it up, cut the shoulder back & if he goes to far; stick a reamer in it. To make the writing & flutes index properly it would required this also. Then you also run into possible problems of the reamer he uses not totally cleaning up the likely sloppy factory chamber (neck diameter, lead, & even possibly cartridge body). If it's a savage, no shoulder cut but to index correctly all the other is true.

Depending on what you agreed upon, his idea of "getting the job done" may have been different than yours. His time is money & there could be a pretty large gap (time & money) in between the two jobs. Again, using a factory barrel in my mind; means the person wants to save money. It's possible he just assumed you would be good with the product the way it turned out v/s paying $2-300 for a true install (unless you did....).

Unless your lucky & the marking just match up... To make a factory barrel "right" takes as much time as a blank install. Considering the cost of a full install it's not worth putting that money in a Factory tube most times.
 
Originally Posted By: CZ527I use one of 5 or 6 really good trustworthy smiths every time I do a build. I won't take any chances with my money. This is of course because I learned the hard way like you did.

I call or email several very reputable guys and just see who has the least workload at the time and send it to them.

Folks like Gradous, Tannel, Beanland, GA, LRI, etc won't do you wrong and have a reputation to protect that they worked hard to build.

I, like you, think a rifle should look as good as it shoots.


So when you called, did those guys come to a consensus on your 6.5x47L freebore question here:

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/for...2519&page=1

I'm getting close to 900 rounds on my 6.5x47L and I'll be needing a barrel pretty soon.
How many of those guys have done work for you, and which one would you recommend??

Thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogBrand spankin new Hart barrels! $300.00 plus the cost of the new barrel.

So, that means he put the lettering/writing on himself... Makes NO sense why he would put it anywhere other than where it should be??? (Don't think anybody makes hart pre-fits?). Being shotty with the other stuff i could see by taking short cuts, but you would work harder to label elsewhere than above the stock...??? ... ???
 
Only way I can think of the marking being upside down is marking before it was correctly chambered and head spaced. He did the chambering and threading and head spacing of the barrel. Just ordered them contoured and fluted. I only saw one that the writing was upside down but saw two or three that the fluting was off and it really seemed weird that he would send it out that way. His rifles were extremely accurate. My 243AI would shoot sub 1/2inch groups consistently with about anything I shot in it. Most of the time even better than that.No one ever complained about the way the rifles performed.
If you do a search, my post on my 243AI was "Ugly Betty" if I remember correctly.
 
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I had my first "custom" rifle built and feel let down. The work looks sloppy, the rifle came back extremely dirty, he didn't clean off all the marker he used to write on the barrel/action. Just not a very good experience and I paid well over 1k to feel let down. On top of that I didn't even get the caliber I wanted originally bc he couldn't give me a time frame of when a new reamer was to be delivered. just an expensive lesson on what not to do next time. I almost want to scrap what he built and start over bc it is t what I want.
 
I'm going to try a new to me smith for my 20 Prac build. I've seen some of his work and it looks good. Hope mine turns out for the best.
 
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