Barrel accuracy issues

D_Bell

D_Bell

Active member
I recently purchased a used Pac-Nor barrel; the previous owner claimed to have only shoot 500 rounds, and never heated it up. It was his main coyote rifle. With the barrel installed, and I worked up many loads with different powder weights and different bullet weights. I found multiple good loads, however, I would fire 5 round groups, and consistly have 3 or 4 rounds touching, and have a flyer about an 1 or more off.

Is the barrel worn out?
 
I have asked similar questions here and some claim there is no such thing as a "flyer" it is completely operator error.
However, regardless of cause "flyer" is a universal term that everyone in the shooting world recognizes, good or bad.
 
How does factory ammo perform? If the same it is the barrel or the shooter. If no poi outside the group, than it is a reloading inconsistency that you should be able to fix. Of course if it shoots better than the previous barrel, you made an improvement already.
 
The crown looks good, no nicks, chips, or dents. The bedding is solid, and all the mounts are tight.

I guess, I need to re-phase the question: How do I know when a barrel is wore out?
 
Originally Posted By: D_BellThe crown looks good, no nicks, chips, or dents. The bedding is solid, and all the mounts are tight.

I guess, I need to re-phase the question: How do I know when a barrel is wore out?

probably thee simplest way is to stuff a bore-scope down there and see if the throat/rifling leade is fried out
 
I have found a couple times, much to my surprise that cleaning the bore remedied the problem and I would have bet money it was clean enough already.
Another time upon close inspection I found that I could squeeze a piece of foil under the pillar block-problem solved and it's still there.
Several times I have found action barrel screws not at the correct torque specs.
Problems like this have caused me to put my pride aside and check my checks over again.
Good Luck I'm sure you will find it.
 
What is the profile of the barrel and what is it chambered in? Many sporter weight barrels, that are chambered in a fairly hot cartridge, will not hold 5 shot groups. POI walks a bit once the barrel heats up. Is the "flyer" usually one of the last shots or does it occur randomly anywhere in the sequence of shots? A gunsmith will be able to inspect the bore with a scope and tell whether there is fire cracking or other damage.
 
Originally Posted By: BowhuntWhat is the profile of the barrel and what is it chambered in? Many sporter weight barrels, that are chambered in a fairly hot cartridge, will not hold 5 shot groups. POI walks a bit once the barrel heats up. Is the "flyer" usually one of the last shots or does it occur randomly anywhere in the sequence of shots? A gunsmith will be able to inspect the bore with a scope and tell whether there is fire cracking or other damage.


The barrel is REM Varmint contour in a REM 700 Short Action.

The flyer happens randomly, first shot, last shot, middle shot.
 
Originally Posted By: D_Bell

I guess, I need to re-phase the question: How do I know when a barrel is wore out?

Ever get any keyholes on your targets? Other than a super dirty barrel that is good indicator. I have worn out a few barrels in my lifetime and keyholing was a very good sign that your barrel was toast.
 
I have worn out a number of 30-06 target barrels that shot sub moa (w/iron sights) from the get-go; then somewhere around the 7500 round mark would start throwing occasional fliers. A flier is a shot outside of the group that I did not call out. Occasional fliers occur due to shooter error or even lack of concentration, but repeated, unexplainable fliers point to a bad barrel in a rifle known to shoot.

It is hard to tell if your barrel is worn out since you just installed the (used) barrel in the rifle and you have no base line to compare to. The problem could be bedding, action screw torque, scope or mounts, or any number of other problems.

Regards,
hm
 
The barrel is cleaned thoroughly after each outing. The barrel has no started keyholing, just have issues with the random fliers.
 
Originally Posted By: 204 ARCheck the throat for carbon, even when you think it's clean that can make you pull your hair out.

Agreed. It's surprising how shiny carbon can be after it's
polished with cleaners and patches. My rifles looked spotless
with just using a bore light, but a Lyman bore scope showed
carbon in the throat as well as the first six inches of bore.
 
Honestly there is a point where you just quit and rebarrel. I've had a few very expensive builds not shoot, and that's after hundreds of rounds trying to get it to shoot. Different Powder, different charges, primers, bullets, seating depths, shoulder bumps etc.
You're either content with a flyer, or do what I do, and get it fixed. Your smith may be able to cut the chamber and rechamber it IF you think it's throat erosion, but if the throats toast your still only a few hundred rounds out before that barrel is gone anyway, (which in your case it sure shouldn't be if he was telling you facts), he may also have a borescope and can tell if you have something else going on also.
 
Interesting, and I've experienced the same. When I got a borescope it really allowed me to easily determine what was really going on in the bore/crown/etc.

One of the worst barrels I ever dealt with was on a Win Model 70 in 375H&H. Shot like crap (5-6 inches at 100). Borescope showed extremely poor rifling with machining chatter marks the whole length. It was so bad that I decided to "clean" it with steel wool before going to the expense of replacing the barrel. Ran steel wool for about 250 strokes down the barrel. I also fire-lapped the barrel with abrasive bullets afterwards. After that it shoots great actually (1 inch or so at 100) Never had to replace the barrel.

The owner of Compass Lake Engineering once told me that about 95% of folks that complain about accuracy degrading have dirty bores. He recommended cleaning with JB Bore Paste...running about 200 strokes the entire bore with a bore brush and followed by a mop with lots of bore paste. Then clean all that out and he claimed accuracy almost always returns. He used to make the barrels for the Army Marksman Unit so I figured he knew what he was talking about.

I've also seen darn near perfect bores on rifles that are perfectly clean that wont shoot consistantly better than 1 inch at 100. Might be shooter might not be. I think it all comes down to a specific load/bullet weight to match the harmonics of the gun but that's just my opinion.

I've also worn out machine gun barrels. You know when the bullets start key holing its pretty much the end of that barrel.

Seem to recall most experienced high power shooters report degrading accuracy between 5000-7000 rounds depending on caliber and manufacturer.

Good luck and keep us posted
 
What cartridge are you shooting, what kind of action, who head spaced the barrel? Is it a savage/remage or is it a shouldered barrel? There is a few pieces of information here we are missing it could be a number of things. I’m not going to buy used barrels ever so that I know were I’m starting and have only a couple things to blame, me the shooter, barrel manufacturing, or who ever chambered the barrel. Good luck with a little more info we could probably get this figured out.
 
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It is a 22-250, REM 700 Short Action, non-remage. The barrel was installed by a profession smith. The action have been trued.
 
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