Barrel choice Question.

Originally Posted By: SkipKHFrom a gunsmith's perspective. I've never had a client complain about a Shilen I installed. All my benchrest guns wear Shilen. I have had just as good luck with Pac-Nor, and they are cheaper than Shilen. I had one complaint about a Lilja, and to be honest that sucker was a PITA from the moment I put it into the lathe... but in all fairness I have seen many a Lilja shoot very well.

But you said EXTREME accuracy and to me that means smaller than .2" groups. For that kind of accuracy, the Shilen SSSM #7 LV in 13.5 twist 6mm is the choice. If you keep up on the NBRSA and IBS match results, it is on at least 50% of the competative rifles and takes the lion's share of trophies. Chambered in 6ppc with a .262 neck, of course
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I hate to say anything but have you seen the equipment list from the IBS Super Shoot held May 20-23,2009 for the top 20 shooters in light/heavy rifle? Was only one Shilen barrel list in the top 40 shooters, Bartlein was used by 19 shooters, Krieger was used by 14 shooters. Tony Boyer quit using Shilen barrels and switched over to Bartlein barrels and he placed 5th in light rifle and won 200yd agg. Was looking at the results for a IBS Hunter Class held in Sulhyr Springs on 7-05-09 of the 34 shooters listed not one use a Shilen barrel.

In fairness to Shilen PS magazine didn't list all the equipment for the 300 plus shooters. I have nothing against Shilen used one of their Ratchet twist 4 groove 30 cal barrels and one for a 257Wby. My gunsmith uses alot of Shilen barrels and he get a pretty good discount from them and he will order any barrel a customer wants.
 
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Originally Posted By: roperOriginally Posted By: SkipKHFrom a gunsmith's perspective. I've never had a client complain about a Shilen I installed. All my benchrest guns wear Shilen. I have had just as good luck with Pac-Nor, and they are cheaper than Shilen. I had one complaint about a Lilja, and to be honest that sucker was a PITA from the moment I put it into the lathe... but in all fairness I have seen many a Lilja shoot very well.

But you said EXTREME accuracy and to me that means smaller than .2" groups. For that kind of accuracy, the Shilen SSSM #7 LV in 13.5 twist 6mm is the choice. If you keep up on the NBRSA and IBS match results, it is on at least 50% of the competative rifles and takes the lion's share of trophies. Chambered in 6ppc with a .262 neck, of course
smile.gif




I hate to say anything but have you seen the equipment list from the IBS Super Shoot held May 20-23,2009 for the top 20 shooters in light/heavy rifle? Was only one Shilen barrel list in the top 40 shooters, Bartlein was used by 19 shooters, Krieger was used by 14 shooters. Tony Boyer quit using Shilen barrels and switched over to Bartlein barrels and he placed 5th in light rifle and won 200yd agg. Was looking at the results for a IBS Hunter Class held in Sulhyr Springs on 7-05-09 of the 34 shooters listed not one use a Shilen barrel.

In fairness to Shilen PS magazine didn't list all the equipment for the 300 plus shooters. I have nothing against Shilen used one of their Ratchet twist 4 groove 30 cal barrels and one for a 257Wby. My gunsmith uses alot of Shilen barrels and he get a pretty good discount from them and he will order any barrel a customer wants.


Roper,

You make good, valid points.
I get Precision Shooting Magazine and check the winner's to see what equipment they're running.
Not many Hart barrels, or Shilen's listed any more. At one time, they dominated the equipment list.
I don't see that either maker's barrels have deteriorated, but other makers like Krieger and Bartlein have become top rate barrel makers and guys are using them now as they can win matches shooting these barrels.
I have a loyalty thing going, and will continue using Hart, Shilen and Douglas barrels as I've used them for a lot of years, mostly Hart and Douglas. They go back to the 1960's for me, and they all shoot extremely well for hunting rifles. When I can shoot groups in the .2's, and occasionally in the .1's with those barrels, I am happy. If I'm building a Stainless Steel rifle, I use Hart barrels, and when I want a blued rifle, I prefer Douglas barrels. Hart only makes Stainless Barrels. My last two builds were Shilen barrels 'cause that's what the gunsmith uses.
Opening this up a bit, there are SO many excellent barrel makers today it makes my head swim thinking about all of them, and for a sporting rifle, there are literally no bad choices. If I lived in Brookings, Oregon, where I did live at one time, I'd be using Pac-Nor barrels. Since I know the good folks at Hart, and Douglas, that's the route I travel.
 
all that being said about benchshooters & barrel choices...give'em a couple years & they'll all be clean'n a tube we've never heard of...all it takes is for 1 or 2 to stick a big toe in a diff stock tank and soon there's foaming white water...they all are very competitive & hav a herd mentality (and that ain't a knock against'em!)...remember "molly" moly...and berger bullets...frozen barrels....all the barrel manuf's listed so far will give ya "extreme accuracy" or minute of mastodon....it's the complete assembled package plus cartridge plus shooter plus .......?
 
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Originally Posted By: Chapped Lipsall that being said about benchshooters & barrel choices...give'em a couple years & they'll all be clean'n a tube we've never heard of...all it takes is for 1 or 2 to stick a big toe in a diff stock tank and soon there's foaming white water...they all are very competitive & hav a herd mentality (and that ain't a knock against'em!)...remember "molly" moly...and berger bullets...frozen barrels....all the barrel manuf's listed so far will give ya "extreme accuracy" or minute of mastodon....it's the complete assembled package plus cartridge plus shooter plus .......?

When I shot BR Hart,Shilen,McMillian,Broughton,Chanlyn,K&P was an outfit from Canada that was making a pretty good barrel besides the others I listed plus there was others. What happened the last few years when Green and others left Kreiger and started Bartlein those guy's when after the BR business in a big way then Kreiger,Rock enter that market.

I think outfits like Kreiger/Rock and some other realized you only had to make two contour barrels in 6mm supply some of the BR supplier/gunsmith like Shilen and Hart had done and you had guys using maybe 3/4 barrel a year plus you get customers every year using the same barrel twist/bore/goove dia may vary.

Tim North purchased Broughton barrels decided to make the 5c he started shooting 1000yd matches and winning/placing with a 5c 6.5x284. It got that barrel out there and he wasn't scare to shoot a barrel he made and I got my first 5c barreled rifle in 2004.

Here is a old clip from THE MAKING OF A RIFLED BARREL. by Geoffrey Kolbe "The techniques of cut rifling has not stood still since the end of the war though. Largely due to the efforts of Boots Obermeyer the design, manufacture and maintenance of the hook cutter and the cutter box has been refined and developed so that barrels of superb accuracy have come from his shop. Cut rifled barrel makers like John Krieger (Krieger Barrels), Mark Chanlyn (Rocky Mountain Rifle Works) and Cliff Labounty (Labounty Precision Reboring) who are fast growing in prominence for the quality and accuracy of their barrels, learned much of their art from Boots Obermeyer, as did I."

As to the "herd mentality" was alot of us that didn't moly.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogTrusting your smith is not always best. I have two I use. One likes Adams and Bennett and Douglas and the other uses Hart, Kreiger. They are both very good and the one that likes A&B and Douglas is a very good friend and would never say anything against him. I just don't care for his barrel choices. JMO

AMEN BROTHER!

Gunsmith's have to make a living like anyone else. Some of them will sacrifice giving a customer the best product they know of if they can make more money on another product and if another product gives them more chambers on a reamer than other barrels of better quality that are harder on tooling.

Ya think that I have been screwed by gunsmith's???

If you ever hear the comment, "I have a great reamer", you know you are about to hear a bunch of BS. An honest man will give you dimensions on his reamer in terms of neck dia, amount of freebore, and whether or not it is a standard SAAMI spec reamer or a minimum SAAMI reamer.

I should have brought my own vasoline with some of the dudes that put my guns together, their eyes were brown they were so full of crap.

By some of the responses I have read here, I can tell you that some of you bought the line of BS hook, line, and sinker.
 
I said I didn't want to talk bad about my friend the gunsmith, so I won't. But he does use a lot af A&B barrels for "economy builds" He says they shoot good. Well they probably do, on some rifles, for some people. I built a 257 Robt. and he talked me into using a A&B barrel. By the time I was finished, I had $600. bucks in the rifle. I used a VZ24 mauser action, which I supplied, of course. The rifle was absolutly georgous, but only shot OK. Really upset me that I spent all that money and a few bucks more, I could of had a really accurate rifle,buy spending a bit more on a better barrel.
Live and learn!!
 
Krieger, Bartlein, Obermeyer, Broughton would be my first choices. If I had to pick one, it would be Krieger. My competition rifles have Kriegers, with one Obermeyer. Just got a Brux on a .25-06 hunting rifle, but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. I know some of the guys at Bartlein that used to work for Krieger and they know what they are doing. Just haven't gotten one of their barrels yet.

Fast Ed
 
My gunsmith lives close by so got news my Bartlein 5r 7mm barrel be here next week. I used a Kreiger for a 280AI and my wife claimed that rifle so going to build me another 280AI.
 
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