Barrel Cleaning ???
- Thread starter Smith
- Start date
Smith--My sources tell me that you are an excellent shot. Your rifle must be shooting pretty much on the money if you are hitting your targets all the time. If your accuracy is at an acceptable level with the cleaning regimen you are using, then you are probably cleaning often enough. I would think, and this is just my opinion, that if you are waiting until you have shot 150 to 200 rounds through it before cleaning it, you might be losing accuracy because of carbon and copper buildup.
When you clean your rifle after 100 or 200 rounds, what method do you use to clean it? What solvent? Do you use just patches, or a combination of brushes and patches? How long does it take you to get the barrel absolutley copper free?
If I shoot 100 to 200 rounds through my 22-250 or my .17 Remington before cleaning (and I have done just that) it usually takes me several days to get all the copper residue out. It is really a chore. I bought some Wipe-Out that I am going to try and hope it cuts down on the labor a bit. Of course Wipe-Out isn't going to be a quick cleaning agent that you can use out on the range or during a prairie dog shoot out in the field. If you have a very dirty barrel you would probably have to let Wipe-Out soak in your barrel overnight once or maybe even twice.
When I am shooting prairie dogs, I try to clean the barrel on my rifles about every 50 to 75 rounds while the barrel is still hot/warm. Sure, it takes away some shooting time, it is a big PITA to do, but it sure restores the accuracy and then it probably won't take a week of Sundays to get it clean again when I get home.
When you clean your rifle after 100 or 200 rounds, what method do you use to clean it? What solvent? Do you use just patches, or a combination of brushes and patches? How long does it take you to get the barrel absolutley copper free?
If I shoot 100 to 200 rounds through my 22-250 or my .17 Remington before cleaning (and I have done just that) it usually takes me several days to get all the copper residue out. It is really a chore. I bought some Wipe-Out that I am going to try and hope it cuts down on the labor a bit. Of course Wipe-Out isn't going to be a quick cleaning agent that you can use out on the range or during a prairie dog shoot out in the field. If you have a very dirty barrel you would probably have to let Wipe-Out soak in your barrel overnight once or maybe even twice.
When I am shooting prairie dogs, I try to clean the barrel on my rifles about every 50 to 75 rounds while the barrel is still hot/warm. Sure, it takes away some shooting time, it is a big PITA to do, but it sure restores the accuracy and then it probably won't take a week of Sundays to get it clean again when I get home.
Wlscott
New member
Smith, it really depends on the rifle.
I have a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 300WSM that copper fouls like you wouldn't believe. I try to clean it every five rounds, if not every ten for sure. If the bore in this gun smooths out, and stops copper fouling as bad, I may be able to extend that.
My smaller bore .223's (H&R Ultra and Colt AR15) don't hardly copper foul at all. I will clean them only after 75 to 100 rounds or when I start noticing the groups opening up. During load development I may clean more often depending on how bad a particular bullet copper fouls my barrel.
The only time this goes out the window is if I am hunting in adverse conditions such as snow, or rain. Then I clean the entire firearm completely.
I have a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 300WSM that copper fouls like you wouldn't believe. I try to clean it every five rounds, if not every ten for sure. If the bore in this gun smooths out, and stops copper fouling as bad, I may be able to extend that.
My smaller bore .223's (H&R Ultra and Colt AR15) don't hardly copper foul at all. I will clean them only after 75 to 100 rounds or when I start noticing the groups opening up. During load development I may clean more often depending on how bad a particular bullet copper fouls my barrel.
The only time this goes out the window is if I am hunting in adverse conditions such as snow, or rain. Then I clean the entire firearm completely.
First lets clarify that there is a difference between a barrel being dirty from powder residue, and 1 being fouled by copper.
A dirty barrel left long enough will start to corrode from the acids created by moisture activating the nitrates left in the barrel.
Every time you send a jacketed bullet down the barrel, a little of the jacket rubs off and starts to plate the inside of the barrel. This doesn't nessisarily dammage the barrel but it does change the harmonics of the barrel, changing the group size.
A few years ago, I had a friend that did a unscientific test on a SKS.
He wanted to see how many rounds he could fire without cleaning. What he said was that after 75 to 100 rounds, accuracy would start to fall off, after 600 rounds over 8 weekends of rabbit hunting without cleaning, he was still hitting rabbits out to 50 yards with out much change in his hit rate!
When he was punching paper it was obvious that the groups kept growing as the barrel got dirtier, but concidering the inharent tendencies of the SKS to not group tight anyway, the dirty barrel didn't show as drastic changes as would show up in other rifles.
The other side of the spectrum shows that factory barrels tend to foul quicker than quality barrels.
A dirty barrel left long enough will start to corrode from the acids created by moisture activating the nitrates left in the barrel.
Every time you send a jacketed bullet down the barrel, a little of the jacket rubs off and starts to plate the inside of the barrel. This doesn't nessisarily dammage the barrel but it does change the harmonics of the barrel, changing the group size.
A few years ago, I had a friend that did a unscientific test on a SKS.
He wanted to see how many rounds he could fire without cleaning. What he said was that after 75 to 100 rounds, accuracy would start to fall off, after 600 rounds over 8 weekends of rabbit hunting without cleaning, he was still hitting rabbits out to 50 yards with out much change in his hit rate!
When he was punching paper it was obvious that the groups kept growing as the barrel got dirtier, but concidering the inharent tendencies of the SKS to not group tight anyway, the dirty barrel didn't show as drastic changes as would show up in other rifles.
The other side of the spectrum shows that factory barrels tend to foul quicker than quality barrels.
Smith
New member
I have 2 bore snakes I use. One I use with Hoppes the other one I use dry. I make a few passes with the wet one, Than I use the other for drying or wiping clean. Then I run a white patch through to see if its clean. I didn't clean the rifle for the first 450 rounds. It did'nt start loosing accurrisy, but it was really dirty. I used patches that time. took a few runs to get it clean.
I keep better track at how many rounds I fire through it now. I have a 1000 through it and I have only have had it a month. It does'nt seem to foul up at all. I do clean and oil the action about 3 times a week cause of weather and how dirty my feed pick-up is.
I keep better track at how many rounds I fire through it now. I have a 1000 through it and I have only have had it a month. It does'nt seem to foul up at all. I do clean and oil the action about 3 times a week cause of weather and how dirty my feed pick-up is.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
If you do not use a borescope, you have no idea as to what is in your barrel.
Period, end of discussion.
Jack
Period, end of discussion.
Jack
Wlscott
New member
Amen. I borescoped the first 300WSM I had, to try to figure out why it was copper fouling so bad. This after I had "cleaned" it very thoroughly. I was not only amazed at the amount of tooling marks and scratches across the rifling, but the copper fouling that was still in the bore.
I sent that gun back to Winchester, and they ended up sending me back everything new except the stock.
Smith
New member
Is this borescope a tool every gun owner needs? Should I get one? Are they pricey? Where can I go to get more info? How do I explain to my wife I need one? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I do shoot a lot of rounds through all my rifles. Any info on the borescope would be great.
I do shoot a lot of rounds through all my rifles. Any info on the borescope would be great.
Cal Sibley
New member
I've heard that more barrels are used up in cleaning than shooting, but I don't really know how true that is. I clean mine after every trip to the range, usually 20 to 30 rounds fired. Generally I'll use Butch's Bore Shine for the job, sometimes also giving the bore a hit with JB Bore Compound and Sweets or Barnes Copper solvent (use nylon brush as copper solvents contain amonia which will dissolve bronze bristle brush fibers). I finish with a good all purpose oil as a preservative which will be removed just before the next trip to the range. Don't leave any trace of copper remover in your barrel as the amonia is destructive. This is merely the way I clean. Everyone has their own method. Best wishes.
Cal - Montreal
Cal - Montreal
Hawks Feather
New member
The Hawkeye Precision Borescope is what is being discussed and they are excellent. They also are NOT cheap. They cost around $545 or $695. The lower priced one, if you can call $545 lower priced, is the Limited Edition. It does not have the focusing eyepiece or a hard case. The $695 is the one that I have and I love it. It is amazing what you can see with one. I always take it to gun shows and, after talking about a gun, ask if I can check the barrel. The answer has always been “yes”. But after that yes, many of my answers have been “no”. Some of those “never been shot” barrels have lots of copper build up. Some of those “perfect” barrels look much like the roads in Ohio right now – really pitted. Sinclair stocks them, but I am sure that if you do a search for Hawkeye Borescope, you will find additional sources.
Hawk
Hawk
More damage done to the bore by cleaning than shooting? That is the so very true.The damage is done not by the cleaning but by improper cleaning with the wrong tools. To clean a gun with out doing damage to the gun you need,a good cleaning rod Dewey or Bortec,bore guide of proper size and lenth to fit your action a good stong solvent,copper bronze brushes and cleaning patches of the right size. When cleaning wipe the cleaning rod off after every five stroks to prevent from lapping the throat with a dirty cleaning rod.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
A borescope is one of those tools that once you try one, you can't understand how you ever did without it.
Jack
Jack
Smith
New member
Thanks for the info Hawk. I'll look into it, but right now I guess I'll keep doing what I'm doing.
Jack, your the king of one liners. Don't stop. Your the biggest reason I come to firearms and reloading forum. I have learned a lot from you. Thanks.
I have learned from many other people on here too. Thanks!
Jack, your the king of one liners. Don't stop. Your the biggest reason I come to firearms and reloading forum. I have learned a lot from you. Thanks.
I have learned from many other people on here too. Thanks!
Was roaming thru Midway USA`s catalog recently and came across a product called Kroil. Some claim that it is the greatest thing since shirt pockets when it comes to lifting copper, lead and carbon fouling. Have any of you tried the stuff and does it do what they claim.
Ed Carnes
Ed Carnes
OldTurtle
Moderator - Deceased
Quote:Is this borescope a tool every gun owner needs? Should I get one? Are they pricey? Where can I go to get more info? How do I explain to my wife I need one? ...I've found that if you really are concerned about the shape of your barrel, then yes, you need one...As to whether you should get one, that has to be your decision...While they generally run from $750 - $1100 I look at it this way,,,I've willing to put a $600-$700 scope on a rifle to shoot better, should I not be willing to spend about the same for insure that my barrel is in good shape, rather than guessing...
As far as convincing your wife, approach it as a one time investment to insure the proper maintenance of your firearms...She may, or may not, buy that, but it's the truth and the best that I can do...
Ed, as far as the Kroil,,,I don't know about the various claims. but it is a good penetrating oil and one of those things that is a staple on most maintenance benches...I like it and use it on a regular basis
As far as convincing your wife, approach it as a one time investment to insure the proper maintenance of your firearms...She may, or may not, buy that, but it's the truth and the best that I can do...
Ed, as far as the Kroil,,,I don't know about the various claims. but it is a good penetrating oil and one of those things that is a staple on most maintenance benches...I like it and use it on a regular basis
Widow maker 223
Well-known member
I dont see the need to clean till accuracy starts to fall off. Right now im at 300 rds and still going strong. I didnt brake this one in. Ill clean it soon with some wipeout. Every barrel is different though,
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Originally Posted By: SmithIs this borescope a tool every gun owner needs? Should I get one? Are they pricey? Where can I go to get more info? How do I explain to my wife I need one? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I do shoot a lot of rounds through all my rifles. Any info on the borescope would be great.
After you own one you will say "why didnt I get one years ago"
I bought a hawkeye 17" kit with angled eye piece 2 years ago.
Yes they are about $900 & up for the hawkeye (best) brand.
Google "borescope" for all the info you need.
Tell the wife that you can use it to look in places no one can without tearing things apart.
Remeber the ring she dropped in a tiny crack...you can use it for that to see where it is also.
borescope
I do shoot a lot of rounds through all my rifles. Any info on the borescope would be great.
After you own one you will say "why didnt I get one years ago"
I bought a hawkeye 17" kit with angled eye piece 2 years ago.
Yes they are about $900 & up for the hawkeye (best) brand.
Google "borescope" for all the info you need.
Tell the wife that you can use it to look in places no one can without tearing things apart.
Remeber the ring she dropped in a tiny crack...you can use it for that to see where it is also.
borescope
skinney
Director
Originally Posted By: SmithHow often should a guy clean a barrel. I'm shooting a rem 700 vssf 223. I use hodgon 335 and a nosler bt bullet. I clean it every 100 or 200 rounds. Is this good? Should I do it more or less? Thanks.
referring to your initial ?... clean YOUR rifle as you see fit... Every rifle is different, one may open up from .5moa to .75 moa after a matter of 50-75 rounds, others may still hold moa or better after a few hundred rounds... personally, when MY rifle is capable of .5moa or better, and I have 50 rounds through her, and my groups open up to a little over .5" I will clean and shrink em back down... do I NEED to too kill a dog, maybe not, but if I like shooting in the same hole, then yes.
referring to your initial ?... clean YOUR rifle as you see fit... Every rifle is different, one may open up from .5moa to .75 moa after a matter of 50-75 rounds, others may still hold moa or better after a few hundred rounds... personally, when MY rifle is capable of .5moa or better, and I have 50 rounds through her, and my groups open up to a little over .5" I will clean and shrink em back down... do I NEED to too kill a dog, maybe not, but if I like shooting in the same hole, then yes.