Barrel for 17 Remington.

yotenaylor

yotenaylor

New member
After weighing all the pro's and cons Ive decided to get a barrel for my savage in 17 remington.
My thinkin is I can reduce velocity to mimmick the fireball, but, Id never be able to make the firebal any faster than it already is.

Ive got two questions.
1. Can you make 17 rem brass from 204.

2. And this is where 17 remington owners will help. Is there a specific groove number that you feel works best in dealing with fouling? I know they make 2, 3, 4 etc groove barrels. Do you think one might be better than another. Is the fouling thing just a wives tale?

Thanks in advance- Mike.
 
Wives Tale,,,,,,,,,,,,Yes and no. The factory barrels I have had in 17Rem were prone to foul and hard to clean.
I have two Pac-Nor 3 grove 9 twist 17cal barrels that don't foul as much as a couple of 223 factory barrels I've had, and they clean up in a snap.
I clean my 17Rem after 50 rnds when shooting Gophers but I'm confident I could go to 100 and not tell the difference.
Any barrel from a Good manufacturer in a 9 twist will serve you well IMO.
Oh Yea, don't load the 17Rem down. It was designed to go fast. Save up and get another barrel in 17FB. Everyone should have both anyway.
Later
 
I have been owning and shooting 17 Remingtons for almost 30 years. Even with the limited bullet and powder selection back when I started, I always enjoyed this nifty little round.

And unlike Repete, I do load my 17 down- a little. Brass last much longer when I do and accuracy improves. I like both very much. I load the 20 grain Vmax down to about 4000 fps. Seems odd thinking of 4000 fps as a reduced load but it is about 400 fps less than I can get out of my 26" barrel with full loads. I have taken praire dogs clear out to 400 yards with this bullet too. Blows the closer ones in half. Very impressive- to me at least.

I have no problems cleaning either. I just clean it like my other centerfires guns.

I love my 17 Rem. I hope you have as much fun with yours.
 
Quote:


And unlike Repete, I do load my 17 down- a little. Brass last much longer when I do and accuracy improves. I like both very much. I load the 20 grain Vmax down to about 4000 fps. Seems odd thinking of 4000 fps as a reduced load but it is about 400 fps less than I can get out of my 26" barrel with full loads.



Rusty,,,,,,,,,I probably should have worded that a little differently.
I didn't mean that I recomend running them at the max. I just don't think that slowing them down to much would do much for trajectory or knockdown power when shooting Coyote sized critters.
It sounds like you're running yours about the same as I do. I'm about 3910 with 25's out of a 24" barrel.
One thing that you are dead on about is the fun-factor that is inherent in the 17cals. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Honeslty I just want something not too many others do. Years ago I had a contender carbine barreled in 17 mach IV rimmed that i sorely regret getting rid of. I missed it so much I went out and got an HMR thinking that this would suffice. Its not even close. So anyways, Here I am with a bone stock savage rifle with the 223 bolt face and I figured why not just go with the 17 remington and avoid any messing with box magazine modifications. Its as simple as givin the card number to the company and threadin it on. Its just that easy, right?

Now I own several midway A&B barrels that are decent, and one shilen that is great. I never realized that pac nor makes thread ons for the savages, and they are bout the same price, Decisions, Decisions.....

Can anyone tell me about makin 17 rem brass out of 204 ruger brass?
 
yotenaylor--You certainly can use .204 Ruger brass and neck it down for use in the .17 Remington.

I have read on some of the Boards that some fellows have been been able to form .17 Rem brass out of .204 Ruger brass by running it up into a .17 Rem FL die, but I haven't been able to accomplish it that way. I get some very bad wrinkles on the casings when I try this.

I believe one fellow who did this used Ponsness Warren's STOS for the case forming lube. I have tried Imperial Sizing Wax and Hornady Unique Case Lube and tried many different amounts of each lube only to see wrinkles in the casing shoulders and sides. Also, the Winchester .204 Ruger brass that I have measures 1.841" to 1.847" in total length, which as you know, is a bit over the .17 Rem maximum SAAMI length of 1.796".

To form the brass for my .17 Remington, I wound up purchasing a Redding .17 Rem #1 Form die and running the .204 Ruger brass up into that.

Next, I run that brass into a Redding .17 Rem trim die. By this point, the brass is quite a bit longer than the maximum SAAMI length. I didn't write down the length it was at after doing these first two steps, so I apologize for that, but before I run it up into a .17 Rem FL die, I trim it to 1.810" to 1.815".

Then, I run it into my Forster .17 Rem FL die.

Last, I trim it to approximately 1.790" and then chamfer and debur. I have not loaded any of these formed casings and fired them in my rifle, so I don't know how they'll perform. I have loaded bullets into the formed casings and the outside diameter of the loaded rounds measure .198" and that should be a very good fit for the chamber in my Lilja barrel which measures approximatley .201" to .202" based on the OD of fired rounds from that chamber.

If the neck on your chamber is tighter than .201" to .202", and your loaded rounds in the .204 Ruger brass formed into .17 Rem brass measures .198" or bigger, you may need to do a bit of neck turning. Most SAAMI cut chamber necks are quite generous, but you do need to know what the chamber neck diameter is so you don't JAM a loaded round into your chamber and wind up with a stuck casing!!!
 
I have had many custom guns built with 9, 6, and 3 groove barrels. The 3 groove barrels cooper foul less.

If you are considering a 17 there are a couple of things that really go a long way in having a real tack driver.

First, I like the 3 groove barrels, that does not mean that they are the best. I would opt for the Lilja first, Pac Nor second, and Shilen third, and Douglas Stainless 4th.

Second, I would just "clean up the necks" on the brass. I have had 4 regular 17 Rem-two 700's and two Sako Vixens. Then I had a custom 17 built with a neck that was tight enough to where I just had to clean up the neck. The custom shot with all the bullets touching at 100 yards with 25g Berger bullets loaded with 22.5g of AA2015 at 3850 fps.

One of the things that really plagues the 17 Rem is that the brass in the neck is just too thick to shoot consistant groups in the .350 range. The factory takes regular brass and just necks it down to 17 increasing the neck thickness. The problems arise from having thick necks when the brass starts to work harden, you will have variations in Rockwell hardness of the brass, leading to flyers.

No cartridge benefits more from turning necks more than the 17 Remington in my experience, due to thick necks. Very tiny variations mean big pressure differences in the 17 Remington.

Hope this helps!
 
Quote:
Oh Yea, don't load the 17Rem down. It was designed to go fast. Save up and get another barrel in 17FB. Everyone should have both anyway.
Later

"yeah" i'd say fast alright..i enjoyed my 1st experiance..shooting the 17 caliber..last weekend while shooting two of RePete's..17's..talk about fast..there so fast..it seemed like you could "almost" see the bullet impact on the target..before ya squeezed the trigger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
it seemed like you could "almost" see the bullet impact on the target..before ya squeezed the trigger

While thate statement may be a bit off /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif, one things for sure..YOU BEST NO BLINK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gifif you want to see the hit...
Later
DF2
 
Quote:

One of the things that really plagues the 17 Rem is that the brass in the neck is just too thick to shoot consistant groups in the .350 range. The factory takes regular brass and just necks it down to 17 increasing the neck thickness. The problems arise from having thick necks when the brass starts to work harden, you will have variations in Rockwell hardness of the brass, leading to flyers.

No cartridge benefits more from turning necks more than the 17 Remington in my experience, due to thick necks. Very tiny variations mean big pressure differences in the 17 Remington.

Hope this helps!


I don't have the experience you do with so many 17Rem but the Rem brass I have mikes between .012" to .013" neck thickness. If your getting thicker necks than SAAMI on the Rem case I'd sure be calling Rem just curious what thickness are you getting?
 
So Far......

Lilja - Need gunsmith to finish barrel. 6 groove.

Lothar Walther- No 17 cal offered for savage drop in, Didnt answer phone for further investigation.

Pac Nor- Has barrels for savage action, 17 cal 3 groove, 8 week delivery- they dont answer their phones, but did return my call within 20 minutes.

Shilen- 6 groove 12-14 week delivery time.

Douglas- 6 groove, 3-4 week delivery. The guy that answered phone was really nice and actually sounded like he actually wanted my business.

Kreiger- HOLY SHIZZLE!!!!!!! We no makey barrel for YOU! No drop in barrels, but if I send them my action they will fit a 6 groove 26 inch sporter for $590.00 round trip. But, it IS a Kreiger, right?
 
Quote:

Kreiger- HOLY SHIZZLE!!!!!!! We no makey barrel for YOU! No drop in barrels, but if I send them my action they will fit a 6 groove 26 inch sporter for $590.00 round trip. But, it IS a Kreiger, right?



You know, this is a lot of bucks, aint it? It really is. But you know just how sweet a shooting a 17 you would have then? If I ever toast the barrel on my current 17 Rem, and I am bound to one of these days, I have no problems sending my rifle to them for one of their tubes installed. I spent almost to the dollar that very same amount having my current 220 Swift made up with a Krieger barrel and what a shooter it is.

I think that there are very few of us that regret spending a few extra dollars on our fine guns. Money spent on a barrel made by Krieger is never wasted in my book.
 
I have gone through maybe 20 Krieger barrels in the last 20 years. One was not quite as good as I expected. It was immediately replaced, no questions asked.

Jack
 
Theres a local guy that shoots serious benchrest, all he shoots are Kreigers, Hes given me a couple of his "worn out" Kreiger barrels- rough, I know. Honestly those "worn out" barrels re cut and rechambered for the remingtons I have them on shoot as good as I could ever hope them to.

My only apprehension is that I really appreciate the whole do-it yourself aspect of the savages. Seems like casting pearls to swine to have them thread, chamber and install a barrel for as much as the barrel itself cost, when others are offering drop ins for what kreiger charges for the barrel alone.
I think if I were to go with kreiger I would send them my mini mauser thats chambered in 223 AI right now, but theres nothing really wrong with the way it shoots.

Right now, Id still like to hear from Lothar Walther and see if I can talk them into doing a 17 barrel for the savage, but Im kinda leaning to the pac nor.
 
Of note...I do have 400 30 gr Bergers and 700 Hornady 25 gr HP's for sale.


One other item that does help...coat your bullets with WS2/Danzac. You will be able to shoot quite a few more rounds before you need to clean...and...the barrel is easier to clean as well.

WS2 does not build up like Moly/etc.
 


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