Benelli SBE2 Pattern Testing and Results

[AviD]

Well, I've decided to create this thread to capture my SBE2 pattern testing and results. I'm hoping this can serve as a start to an SBE2 specific patterning thread that will prove beneficial to other SBE2 owners.

Obviously the cost to do this is not cheap, and I'm far from swimming in money, but I'm about as fanatical as it gets when it comes to my gear and I want the absolute best out of it. I also figure we spend enough for these guns, so why settle for anything but the best possible patterns out of it, right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Unfortunately, I have to go to a range to pattern here in NJ...wish I could just step out my backdoor and do it, but it's not an option where I live...so this may take some time if weather and range availability don't align with the weekends.

If anyone else has patterning results, please feel free to add them here. I think the more detail you can provide, the better...some useful information that you might want to add:
- Choke
- Shotshell
- Patterning Distance
- Method (freehand, benchrest, bags, leadsled, etc)
- Conditions (wind, temperature, humidity, etc)
- Results in terms of X pellets of N total in a K" circle
- Additional notes on POI vs POA differences (often different shells impact differently than you aim)


Below is the initial details of the background to my SBE2 and my next session plan.


Background:
===========

I've done a fair amount of patterning out of my SBE2, but primarily for turkey shot. I have done some predator (Hevi-shot 3.5" and 3" Dead Coyote T) and a good amount of buckshot testing (00 and 000) as well.

Ultimately I found the Rhino .660 outperformed all of the stock Benelli CRIO+ chokes, the Carlson Dead Coyote Choke, and the Carlson .665 PORTED TURKEY CHOKE TUBE. This held true for all turkey, predator, and buckshot loads.

The question is, do the previous results indicate that the tighter constriction I go, the better it will get for all types of shotshells? Or is there a functional difference in choke manufacturing (porting design, parallel section length/design, etc) that can be leveraged to allow for more open choke usage and overall better patterning?


Current Plan Overview:
======================

For these tests, I've decided to test the latter and stay on the .660+ side of constriction rather than trying to squeeze down more in the .655 to .640 side.

All initial patterning will be done at 40 yards under as ideal conditions as I can manage this time of year (i.e. no high winds, no rain, etc). If the results with a given combo are promising, I'll extend to 50 yards, and if possible 60 yards.

I've ordered the following products to test out of my SBE2.
I'll follow-up in this thread when I perform the tests, with pictures of the patterns.

Here's a summary of what will be tested:

Chokes:
-------
.660 Rhino 2" Extended (Ported)
.660 Primos Jelly Head Choke Tube (Ported)
.665 Cabela's Choke Tubes for Hevi-Shot Turkey Super Full (Non Ported)
.670 Kicks Ind Gobblin Thunder (Ported)
.675 Cabela's Choke Tubes for Hevi-Shot Turkey Extra Full (Non Ported)
.680 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke X-Full (Ported)
.685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full (Ported)
.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
.665 Carlson PORTED TURKEY CHOKE TUBE (Ported) -- Already Own, If Additional Ammo Leftover
Carlson CRIO PLUS Dead Coyote Choke (Non Ported) -- Already Own, If Additional Ammo Leftover
.660 Rhino Choke 2" Extended (Ported) -- Already Own, If Additional Ammo Leftover



Shotshells:
-----------
Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote 12 3 1/2" T
Remington Wingmaster HD RW1235VT 12 3 1/2" 1350 1 5/8 T
Remington Wingmaster HD RW1235MB 12 3 1/2" 1300 1 3/4 BB



Current Test Plan Details:
==========================

Due to shear cost of shotshells, I've selected a subset of 3.5" shells to start, as I prefer shooting 3.5" if possible...if none of these pattern well, I'll move on to 3" shells. Further, I have limited my shot size choices to BB and T Hevi-Shot or High Density per GC's research and results in his own guns. In addition, here in New Jersey, we are limited to shot between 4 (min) and T (max)...and from what I hear, in the near future ALL LEAD will be OUTLAWED here for shotshells...yes, you read that right. So both for performance and future legal compatibility, it only makes sense to test non-toxic Hevi-shot and HD loads.

I'm sticking with the Hevi-shot Dead Coyote and the Remington Wingmaster HD for these initial tests. Honestly, if these don't pattern well out of any of these chokes, I'm plum out of ideas! I looked at a few other loads, like the Winchester Elite Xtended Bs, and the Federal Premium Ultra-Shok Ammunition BB at 1450fps, but didn't add them for these tests as they aren't my primary choices.

Likewise, chokes aren't inexpensive either. My goal here was to select the complete range of constrictions from .660 to .685.

I was ordering the Jellyhead .660 anyway to compare it's pattern against my current Rhino .660 so I've added that to these tests.

I struggled to find a .665 and .675 choke, so I went with the Cabela's highly rated (suprisingly) Hevi-shot oriented chokes. Not sure how they'll work out, but they seem to be gaining rave reviews by it's users...and they're inexpensive.

For the .670 range, I wanted to try the Primos Dead Dog choke, but cannot locate one for the SBEII...and it's not listed on Primos website either. I've emailed them to verify. I've included the .670 Kicks Ind Gobbling Thunder to test this constriction, and based on popularity of this choke and GC's results.

Likewise for the .680 and .685 constrictions, I went with the Kick's Ind Buck Kickers. Based on discussion with GC and his relative Benelli results, this range may be best suited for 3.5" shells, so I have high hopes for this constriction range. To add to this range of testing, I added the .685 Primos Dead Deer.

I've also added some chokes I already own that I'll add to the mix if ammo allows for it. I've ordered two boxes of each of the above, so I may or may not have leftover.


Well that's the not so skinny start...I'll keep everyone posted. Wish me luck! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

 

[derbyacresbob]

I opened up a 3" Rem HD BB 1-1/2 oz load and it had 73 pellets in it. So the 3.5" Rem HD BB load should have about 85 pellets in it. So the 3.5" BB load should have right at 30 more pellets in it than the 3.5" HD T shot 1-5/8 oz load has. When you do your pattern tests, if you want to put a phone book or a catalog behind the pattern sheet so when you shoot your pattern tests you can check the penetration with the same shell. Shoot some different loads into the same catalog or phone book and then count how many pages deep the different pellets penetrated. I was amazed at how far the HD BB pellets out penetrated the copper coated lead BB pellets. I don't plan on shooting at our 25 to 35 lb coyotes at over 45 yards so the Rem HD BB's are about the perfect size and weight for the hunting I do.

 

[richards]

If I send you some winchester 3" 000 buck will you try it out for me in those chokes, was thinking about trying out a new sbe 2.

 

[AviD]

Bob,

Good info. I might try the phone book testing.

Quote:
I don't plan on shooting at our 25 to 35 lb coyotes at over 45 yards so the Rem HD BB's are about the perfect size and weight for the hunting I do.




This is a very interesting quote, but I'm going to start another thread to discuss it as I don't want to sidetrack this one.


richards,

I will be doing some additional buckshot testing, so I'll keep you posted on my plans for that. Maybe then you can send me over the win 3" 000 to add to the testing! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[AviD]

Well got out patterning today, preliminary results not too stellar. Have a bit of analysis to do and some picture taking, uploading, and a write-up.

All testing done at 40 yards with a LeadSled.

Results teaser, the Primos .685 Dead Deer combined with 3.5" Dead Coyote T lead the way in respect to the most even and dense pattern. Also an amazing difference between 3" and 3.5" Dead Coyote T out of the same choke in respect to POI, with the 3" patterning 8-12" higher (yeah seriously).

This gun is definitely driving me nuts, about to order more ammo and chokes to try some more combos, but reaching the end of my rope. I think I've put more than the gun's initial cost in ammo and chokes through it.

GC, you were right as far as the more open chokes, definitely saw an improvement in the .685 range with the 3.5" shells overall. I'm thinking of trying some .690s and .695s if I can find them to see how they are.

Maybe you guys will see something I'm not in the patterns, or perhaps my expectations are too high. Either way, I can't shim out the high shooting of this gun...the only thing I can do is hope I find a choke and shot combo that happens to pattern lower than the others. With the variance I'm seeing (even left and right), I'd equate finding these combos for T/BB and buckshot (00/000 for deer) to finding a needle in haystack. Final option is to send it back to Benelli and see what they can do. I'll likely call them tomorrow to see what their recommendations are, and what options I have with them. As I mentioned above, I've put entirely too much time and money into this to wind up with a 40 yard gun. My Remington 870 Express outperforms this gun right now (except maybe with the Rhino+Nitro combo for turkeys).

Anyway, pics to follow, hopefully tomorrow sometime.

 

[GC]

Adjustable sights on the rib or even something like the Burris Speed Bead will solve the "sighting in" problem of POI/POA. Shotguns... aren't they fun? Amazing how much difference there can be between loads and chokes isn't there? If you really want your eyes opened, take your best shooting combo at 40 yards and move the target back to 50 yards. Now that extra ten yards of air can really wreck a pattern!

 

[AviD]

02/01/2009 - SBE2 Patterning Results with Pics

Well, here is the breakdown from my most recent patterning.


Conditions:
-----------
Temperature 54F
Clear, sunny skies
Light variable winds 5-10mph with occasional gusts around 10-15mph (waited for breaks in any wind)


Shooting Details:
-----------------
Benelli SBE2/SBEII with C shim installed for lowest POI possible with stock shims.
Gun barrel and previously used chokes cleaned and buffed with a power drill, copper brush, and solvent. Action cleaned and lightly oiled.
Bore snake with light solvent run through the gun between every single shot. Visually verified no debris or buildup in the barrel between shots. If seen, additional runs of the bore snake until clean.

All shots taken from a Caldwell LeadSled off a table.
Patterning sheets are roughly 3'x3'
3" targets put on center of all patterning paper sheets.
All shot alignment was overlaying the center bead, front bed, and 3" target in 3 concentric circles with a flush view to the rear sight shelf of the barrel, i.e. the target is essentially covered by the beads.




Shotshells:
-----------
Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote 12 3 1/2" T
Remington Wingmaster HD RW1235VT 12 3 1/2" 1350 1 5/8 T
Remington Wingmaster HD RW1235MB 12 3 1/2" 1300 1 3/4 BB



Chokes:
-------
.660 Rhino Choke 2" Extended (Ported)
.665 Cabela's Choke Tubes for Hevi-Shot Turkey Super Full (Non Ported)
.670 Kicks Ind Gobblin Thunder (Ported)
.675 Cabela's Choke Tubes for Hevi-Shot Turkey Extra Full (Non Ported)
.680 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke X-Full (Ported)
.685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full (Ported)
.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)




Predator Shot Results:
----------------------


.660 Rhino Choke 2" Extended (Ported)
3.5" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards
Notes: What I've been using, patterns high and I aim low to compensate...but have been whiffing on foxes. Not the best of patterns IMO.

.660 Rhino Choke 2" Extended (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD T
40 yards
Notes: Not bad if I could bring the POI down about 9"? Not phenomenal but the core 60-70% is centered and relatively dense.

.660 Rhino Choke 2" Extended (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD BB
40 yards
Notes: Oh my...pretty bad. I'd expect this at like 70 yards, not 40 yards.

.665 Cabela's Choke Tubes for Hevi-Shot Turkey Super Full (Non Ported)
3.5" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards
Notes: Not bad, but not great. POI high and left, gaps in the pattern. Need significant POI adjustment and probably not worth it?

.665 Cabela's Choke Tubes for Hevi-Shot Turkey Super Full (Non Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD T
40 yards
Notes: Quite a bit better than the DC T, POI a little high for the densest section of the pattern but the rest is pretty spread out.

.665 Cabela's Choke Tubes for Hevi-Shot Turkey Super Full (Non Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD BB
40 yards
Notes: Very spread out with a lot of gaps.

.670 Kicks Ind Gobblin Thunder (Ported)
3.5" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards
Notes: Mostly left, but also high. Nothing great pattern wise IMHO.

.670 Kicks Ind Gobblin Thunder (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD T
40 yards
Notes: Quite bad, very spread out with big gaps.

.670 Kicks Ind Gobblin Thunder (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD BB
40 yards
Notes: Definitely more centered, but pretty spread out and gapped.

 

[AviD]

.675 Cabela's Choke Tubes for Hevi-Shot Turkey Extra Full (Non Ported)
3.5" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards
Notes: Not bad density wise, vertical variance isn't as bad as other patterns, but POI is left and high again with noticeable gaps.

.675 Cabela's Choke Tubes for Hevi-Shot Turkey Extra Full (Non Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD T
40 yards
Notes: High and gapped pattern.

.675 Cabela's Choke Tubes for Hevi-Shot Turkey Extra Full (Non Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD BB
40 yards
Notes: More of a vertical than left-right pattern, again a lot of them high. If that cluster to the left was in the center, I might actually like this pattern for it's vertical forgiveness.

.680 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke X-Full (Ported)
3.5" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards
Notes: Nothing great, very gappy but with some decent, dense clusters...just too distributed.

.680 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke X-Full (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD T
40 yards
Notes: Same as above, gappy but decent clusters.

.680 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke X-Full (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD BB
40 yards
Notes: Very gappy, very spread out...again what I'd expect at much farther distances

 

[AviD]

.685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full (Ported)
3.5" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards
Notes: Not a good pattern really, a lot of gaps too.

.685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full (Ported)
3.5" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards
Notes: Same, not a good pattern, a lot of gaps and left heavy.

.685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD T
40 yards #1
Notes: POI high and pretty gappy.

.685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD T
40 yards #2
Notes: High again, not a bad cluster just above and left of the center 3" circle, but a very big gap between it and the rest of the load 9" higher.

.685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD BB
40 yards #1
Notes: I thought this pattern was one of the better ones, although nothing that got me excited. Left heavy and more vertical distribution, but decent clustering with smaller gaps. Could be a result of the number of BB shots as well.

.685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD BB
40 yards #2
Notes: Second shot of this combo reveals inconsistency, very gappy here and not too good.

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3.5" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards #1
Notes: In retrospect, not sure what caught my eye here. Nothing great in this pattern. Good cluster about 4-5" high and slightly left, but a lot of gaps between it and the rest of the pattern.

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3.5" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards #2
Notes: Some good strikes near the center, but still a lot of vertical distribution and lack of clustering with too many gaps.

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3.5" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards #3
Notes: Probably the best pattern out of this combo, if all three were like this, I'd consider it do-able.

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards #1
Notes: Decent pattern, but 6-9" high and mostly left.

 

[AviD]

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3" Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote T
40 yards #2
Notes: Shows the variance between shots, much more distributed here and not very good.

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD T
40 yards #1
Notes: Not bad, but again a lot of gaps

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD T
40 yards #2
Notes: Some strikes in the center, but the majority of the pattern is left and high.

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD BB
40 yards #1
Notes: Too distributed IMO, too many gaps.

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3.5" Remington Wingmaster HD BB
40 yards #2
Notes: 7 hits in the center, but empty space all around it for 2-4". Decent cluster pattern to the right though.

Predator Shot Conclusions:
--------------------------
Not really blown away with any of the patterns, but perhaps my expectations are too high?
Some patterns are certainly straight up horrible, whereas other are probably acceptable for 40 yard and under coyote hunting.
Many patterns have a lot of gaps, which could be problematic for foxes.
POI is high for a lot of the shots, just how this SBE2 seems to be, but can be remedied.

I'm primarily looking for a nice dense, even pattern. If I had that, I could at least shift the POI to bring it to the center.
While patterning, I felt the .685 Primos Dead Deer with the 3.5" Dead Coyote T were doing the best, so I took a few more shots with that combo.
Likewise for the .685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full with the Wingmaster HD BB primarily, but also T.

Overall, nothing really blew my mind or excited me as my new "go-to" pattern.
And the biggest disappointment is this is at 40 yards. I can't even imagine what these look like at 50 or 60 yards.

The one thing that seemed to stand out was in the .685 range, where the Kicks steadily improved as the constriction increased.
Likewise the Primos Dead Deer in .685 seems to achieve reasonable patterns, so perhaps that's an indication of consistency for increasing constrictions.




Random Buckshot Results:
------------------------

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3.5" Remington Express 1235B 00 12 3 1/2" 1125 00 18
40 yards
Notes: High and somewhat grouped, but some flyers and nothing mind blowing.

.685 Primos Dead Deer Choke (Ported)
3.5" Federal Vital-Shok 00
40 yards
Notes: Fair with a lot of flyers

.685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full (Ported)
3.5" Remington Express 1235B 00 12 3 1/2" 1125 00 18
40 yards
Notes: Some good center with 4 strikes, but gapped until the 8-12" radius. Also with some flyers.

.685 Kicks Ind Buck Kicker Choke Full (Ported)
3.5" Federal Vital-Shok 00
40 yards
Notes: Fair number of pellets high and relatively grouped but also a lot of flyers

Buckshot Conclusions:
---------------------
Too early to tell, need more patterning time and a lot more shells. Again, I'd rather shoot 3.5" if I can, but shotshells in this size are somewhat limited, so I'll add what I have in 3" to the next buckshot specific session. No plans to continue buckshot testing heavily other than randomly mixing it in with some new chokes to see if something stellar jumps out. Next time I'll include my Rhino .660 pattern results for comparison, since that is the combo I'm currently using.





Follow-up Plan:
---------------

For the sake of thoroughness and since I have the chokes anyway, my next session will include the following:


Untested choke I own:
---------------------
.660 Primos Jelly Head Choke Tube (Ported)
.665 Carlson PORTED TURKEY CHOKE TUBE (Ported)
.??? Carlson CRIO PLUS Dead Coyote Choke (Non Ported)



Untested choke I've ordered:
----------------------------
.685 HS Undertaker (Ported)
.690 Kick's Light Full (Ported)
.695 HS Undertaker Hevi-shot (Ported)


Shotshells Being Re-tested:
---------------------------
Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote 12 3 1/2" T
Remington Wingmaster HD RW1235VT 12 3 1/2" 1350 1 5/8 T
Remington Wingmaster HD RW1235MB 12 3 1/2" 1300 1 3/4 BB


Shotshells Being Added:
-----------------------
Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote 12 3" T
Remington Wingmaster HD RW12VT 12 3" 1300 1 1/2 T
Remington Wingmaster HD RW12HMB 12 3" 1300 1 1/2 BB


I'm hoping the larger constrictions will help improve the patterns, hence my HS and Kicks selection above.
I didn't get the Primos Jellyhead in time, but this is a very popular choke for both turkey and buckshot for the SBE2. I've heard great things about it and it's the "go-to" choke for a lot of SBE2 owners, so I'm hoping it throws some good patterns for the T/BB and buckshot range.

I'm obviously struggling with this gun and running out of options.
I called Benelli today and they did say I could get an RA number and send the gun back in to them for patterning and review.
They said they use the stock Benelli chokes with basic buckshot/turkey shot (I'm assuming all lead, she mentioned Winchester and Federal).
So if my next patterning session doesn't work out well, and I can't think of any other options...I'll be sending it in for them to review.

Beyond that, if anyone has any thoughts, suggestions, or recommendations based on my test results thus far, please let me know.

 

[bigdummy30]

i'd be interested in anykind of penetration numbers or results you can show, i.e.:
will the shot penetrate 1/2 plywood at that distance???

that could be another determining factor in shot selection as well....it may pattern but if its not hitting hard its not much good either......good job and if you ever wanna do it with a remington, let me know as i have about 10-15 different 12 ga. remchokes...

 

[GC]

You may very likely see an improvement with the 3" shells. Overall, good job and thanks for taking the time and expense to work on this stuff and post it complete with pictures. It's a chore, no doubt... It would really be nice to have this in the sticky thread above... hint, hint! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[SCoyote]

Quote:
Adjustable sights on the rib or even something like the Burris Speed Bead will solve the "sighting in" problem of POI/POA. Shotguns... aren't they fun? Amazing how much difference there can be between loads and chokes isn't there? If you really want your eyes opened, take your best shooting combo at 40 yards and move the target back to 50 yards. Now that extra ten yards of air can really wreck a pattern!


GC,
Remember what I posted in the other thread about patterns seeming to follow no rules of consistency. I guess when all the round pellets leave the confines of the wadding, since they aren't stabilized it's just the same as shooting a round ball out of a barrel with no rifling. These shots patterns probably don't expand evenly as the farther they go, the individual pellets are probably spiraling and zig zaggin all over the place. I'm really interested in those shells you mentioned that have pellets that look like air gun pellets. Have you heard any more about them. How crazy would it be for a handloader to try to make some of these using air rifle pellets?

 

[GC]

I think those particular loads are going to be custom loads and probably pretty darned expensive. But who knows, technology is amazing and they may find a way to make a reliable 75 - 80 yard shotgun load/choke combo that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. If they do, it'll probably be like shooting a slug for the first 40 yards, so I'm not sure that is really all that great either.

 

[knockemdown]

First off, thanks for posting all this! Labor of love...

IMHO, there are one or two patterns that look real good to me, but you need some type of sighting device to center them on target. When you mention "too many gaps" in your commentary, I don't think those gaps are big enough for a fox to squeeze through, so don't be too critical...

.665 is the constriction my 26" SBE likes and looks as though yours does too. But I need a red dot to "zero in" the pattern.
This grey was a 60 yard kill with 3" #4 buck. Two pellets were complete pass throughs...

Thanks again for taking the time to post! Very informative...

 

[acorn]

Avid----I have a m-2 with 21" bbl.---last friday I went to range with some 3" remington HD BB's. What I found was choke .695" pattern to lose---.675" choke pattern to lose but .685" choke had a high density pattern in 15" circle.
I use trulock extended hunter choke tubes the best that I have found----As a general rule I can NOT get tight turkey chokes to pattern good for my guns!
I have also found that I can reload better shells than I can buy, seems like magnums or horsepower the more the better----Not soooooo most a lot of waste. Just my experience.
I would try the 3" more than the 3.5" unless you go to 10 guage, trying to stuff alll that shot down the bbl. at high speed just can not be good!

 

[AviD]

Thanks for the replies guys!

knockemdown,

Yeah I was looking back at the Cabela's .665 and the pattern isn't that bad at all in some cases. I might fire a few more through with that choke to see how consistent it is.


Quote:
What I found was choke .695" pattern to lose---.675" choke pattern to lose but .685" choke had a high density pattern in 15" circle.



At what distance was this?


What's odd is when I patterned this gun for turkey, my patterns with a variety of chokes were just like you see above...very sporadic, uneven, gapped, and variable POI wise. Nothing would pattern even.

The ONLY consistently shooting off the shelf loads I've found that are very even patterns (all around, circular) and very dense are the 3.5" Winchester Elite Extended Range with the Rhino .660.

Beyond that the Nitro 4x5x7 shoots great but it also has like 300 pellets in it, so it's a sick killer with the Rhino .660. The pattern is not very even, I believe it's more veritcal than horizontal, but it's absolutely deadly.

With that said, I don't know what is special about the Winchester Elite Xtended Range shells, but there is something different that allows them to pattern nice and evenly distributed unless the 20 other shells I put through the gun for turkey shot.

Oddly though, other Winchester shells did NOT perform well at all...it was only the Elite Xtended Range that would.

I feel like I'm in the same dilemma for predator and buckshot now. Cycling through umpteen shells seeing the same sporadic and subpar results, looking for that needle in a haystack.

Looking at the Winchester Elite Xtended Range offering, they do have a "coyote" shell but it's only a B shot.

Quote:

SCXR123 Supreme Elite™ 12 3 1 3/8 B




This seems a little light, but it may pattern quite well given my prior results with the Supreme Elite line.

Unfortunately there is nothing in this line for buckshot.

Worst case, I could always go custom Nitro but I feel I really shouldn't have to struggle like this with a $1500 gun! It's pretty sad when my $200 Remington 870 Express can outperform my SBE2! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Or perhaps I've just been lucky and found good combos for my 870 and 11-87 and didn't have to put this kind of range time and money into finding the perfect setup.

As I mentioned above, I ordered some more chokes to try in the .690 and .695 range to see if expanding the constriction helps some.

What I did notice, even in the .685 chokes when buffing them out is that there are noticeable scars/scratches on the inside indicating pellet contact. I could not buff these out, so perhaps this is an indication that these 3.5" shells are too overchoked.

So stepping back to 3" with .685 and lower, or trying .690 and .695 with 3.5" might be the ticket (crossing fingers!).

It's just completely odd how when I patterned buckshot with the 3.5" Remington 00 last year, the Rhino .660 yielded the best patterns...and that certainly seems way overchoked but anything wider (the stock Benelli chokes with no elongated parallel section nor porting, the Patternmaster Extended Range and Long Range, and the Carlson Dead Coyote) yielded much wider and unacceptable patterns.

This gun is just straight up weird to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted on the results, and likewise if you have any of your own, post em on up here...will be helpful for any of the other SBE2 owners out there! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

 

[CDR]

Quote:
I think those particular loads are going to be custom loads and probably pretty darned expensive. But who knows, technology is amazing and they may find a way to make a reliable 75 - 80 yard shotgun load/choke combo that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. If they do, it'll probably be like shooting a slug for the first 40 yards, so I'm not sure that is really all that great either.



I think the shooter's expectations are probably a bit overly high, especially considering the gun he is using. I have, generally, found the standard 12ga. bores, and the overbored guns, pattern better than the tight bores like those used in the SBE, subject, of course to variations due to differing choke designs and chokes used in them.

When I pattern large shot at 40 yards, I look more at the number of pellets within the center 15 - 20 inches, than overall distribution, if I am interested in longer range performance. The shot in the fringes will normally be well out of the 30" circle by the time the pattern reaches 50 yards, whereas, the shot in the center of the pattern will form your 30" pattern at 50 yards. (Regular Hevishot does seem to vary somewhat from this rule, however.) And, there are so few pellets in these loads that it takes very little to have a good pattern one shot, a mediocre pattern the second shot, and a very good pattern the third shot, with differing pellet distributions in each.

You are just can't count on getting nice, evenly distributed, round patterns with small number of large pellets every time you pull the trigger.

 

[AviD]

Quote:

You are just can't count on getting nice, evenly distributed, round patterns with small number of large pellets every time you pull the trigger.




I agree with this 100% when talking about buckshot (3.5" 18 pellet 00 or 3" 13 pellet 00). I think good if it hits 80-90% in some oblong gapped pattern inside a 15" (although I'd prefer an 8-12" pie plate) circle at 40 yards.

But when it comes to smaller size shot with more pellets, I definitely look for more evenly distributed and smaller gapped patterns.

And yes, I do have very high expectations for this gun...again due to the price tag, and also because much cheaper guns pattern far better (thus far).

But if I could find a buckshot and predator shot that patterns as well as turkey does with this gun, I'd be golden...but I'm running out of chokes to try...and to go through all this work and expense for a 40 yard buckshot and predator shot gun would be quite disappointing, but it may happen.

 

[CDR]

Perhaps you should try some Hevishot loads. I mean the regular type in 2's or BB's. Regular Hevishot seems to give some pretty center dense patterns, much more so than I have seen with most other varieties of tungsten based shots.

Or, take the easy way out, get a 10ga. It's not hard to get good patterns with a 10ga.

The other option is examine GC's sticky thread and simply give up on the SBE and stick with the gun which performs well for you.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the equipment is not made to deliver the type of performance you desire, even if it is well made. No matter how hard you try to find the best tires, you're not going to make a good off road truck out of a Lamborghini.