Best 640 resolution thermal for the $$

What I look for and test are the budget friendly thermals that have the minimal features available to be useful and have American based customer support for warranty use if needed.
AGM, RIX and Nocpix have been the top contenders the last couple of years.
All three have 640 res optics around the same price and have warranties that are transferable.
I skipped the oneleaf because they don't have US based customer support.
I test , but don't prefer scopes that use proprietary batteries.
Pulsar and iRay are quality optics if that is a requirement you prefer.
I haven't tested the Wave thermal scopes, but I've heard good things about them.
SJC
 
Most if not all of the 640 scopes I've run across all cost about the same amount. After watching a ton of reviews and videos from actual hunts, I ordered a Nocpix Ace H50R 3x-24x. From what I understand, Noxpix bought out IRay and the IRay name has gone away. My scope is supposed to arrive today. Nocpix has them on sale at the moment, though even with $1000 off, it came in at a little under $6k with tax and shipping included. Not an inexpensive upfront cost, but given that I have money invested in snowmobiles, snowmobile trailers, rifles, etc.. to access my hunting spot & hunt it and also given that the cost will be deferred out over the number of years of use I hope to get out of it- it was an easy decision to purchase. We'll see how it holds up.

As far as places to order from- I emailed Outdoor Legacy with a few questions but did not receive a response from them and then they sold out again, so I ordered from Scheels. There are a few other places, but none are local to me.
 
Depending on the height above bore(some units end up 2.5+ inches above) you likely won't be using your "normal" zeroing/trajectory method. Velocity of the round matters a bunch as does the amount of x,y axis correction needed to calibrate the display to bullet impacts. Some units now have firmware that will center the display after zeroing.
 
IIRC Iray got in trouble, some import deal. I used Outdoor Legacy, excellent advice and delivery. Even got a bottle opener as a BD present from them recently.
 
DAA said:
I probably won't. But am at least considering a thermal in '26. I give zero craps about LRF or video recording. Just absolutely zero craps. Useless to me. Resolution, um, NETD, refresh rate is mostly what I care about. I wish there was a no frills, but high performance option. I realize I'll likely end up paying for features I have zero use for, but I wish I didn't have to.

Like I said, probably won't end up actually getting one. But if I do, I want 640, 12um, at least 50Hz,

- DAA
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I think you do actually want recording and LRF. LRF is very handy IMO its a must because in my limited experience its very difficult to judge how far and animal is away. The image degrades as you try to zoom off your base magnification. I wouldn't buy a thermal scope without ranging ability. The recording really comes with all the scopes and is pretty nice because you can go back and watch chunks of meat fly off and into the air. I recently baptized a clump of sage brush with jackrabbit blood and guts. it was pretty saucy. Some RF units like the AGM varmint v2 has automatic recording that kicks in 7 seconds before the shot and 7 seconds after. I really wish my unit had that.

both my scanner agm sidewinder and agm varmint are 35-640 models. the varmint is a refurb model and the first one had an issue. sent it back to AGM and within about 10 days I had a new unit in my hands. pretty darn good customer service!

2 most important parts seldom talked about, 1) is the most common form factor for a thermal is the compact type models. these work best on an AR 15 type rifle. They mount pretty far back and i am not sure if they will work on a bolt gun. This means with these type scopes you're limited to something from an AR, which I am of the mind these days that I want substantially more power for night hunting!!! ie 243!! The other is IMO a bolt gun is better from a safety aspect. you already have buttons, batteries and the myriad of settings that you're trying to manage in darkness. a bolt gun is easier to load and unload than an AR in the dark. you're not fumbling around with a magazine etc.

I wish my rifle thermal was one of the units that had more of a traditional rifle scope form factor, so I could run it on a bolt gun. AGM makes the adder and pulsar has multiple units like these. for those reasons.

2) is which unit gives you the best battery setup. The 18650's that power the AGM varmint, in the cold these batteries have their life cut down by 75% I basically only rely on the in unit battery as a backup and just run a big ole 50k mah external battery. but thats extra weight, wire and bulk. don't know if there is a better solution.

don't know if its refresh or not but these units have auto image calibration which when set to auto is pretty annoying because it might kick on and freeze the image during a bad time. I like setting this to manual so I can just control it myself. some thermals may handle image calibration more seamless if so that would be a selling factor for me.

Also there is a model out there that may allow the scope to be used as a scanner and be able to quickly attach back on the rifle with a special mount that is magnetic and locking. If so this might allow you to only purchase one unit which would be extremely handy, handy still if you don't use it that way none the less.
 
If your shots will be inside 250 yards and you run a muzzle velocity 3600-3700 and above a RF won't be important. I get 2-3 hrs out of "normal" 18650's here in MN winters and there is a good cold weather 18650 available (30$) that extends use time. My unit auto nukes, often as a result of panning across different thermal signatures (grass,trees, dirt/snow) when stationary on a tripod/bipod doesn't happen often. Since thermals are basically small TV screens, there is some delay in the processing of images. I want 2 seconds, stationary target/stationary reticle before trigger breaks. If unit auto nukes during that I get off the trigger and restart the count.
 
spotstalkshoot said:
If your shots will be inside 250 yards and you run a muzzle velocity 3600-3700 and above a RF won't be important. I get 2-3 hrs out of "normal" 18650's here in MN winters and there is a good cold weather 18650 available (30$) that extends use time. My unit auto nukes, often as a result of panning across different thermal signatures (grass,trees, dirt/snow) when stationary on a tripod/bipod doesn't happen often. Since thermals are basically small TV screens, there is some delay in the processing of images. I want 2 seconds, stationary target/stationary reticle before trigger breaks. If unit auto nukes during that I get off the trigger and restart the count.
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so my shots ARE under 250 yards however knowing the animal is in that range isn't easy and its like ok is it 350 or 235? that is the hard thing to know and it does make a difference. Its almost more of a factor because we want to call at night areas we would never call in the day because of terrain. last time I was out purely for calling. we had 3 coyotes that did exactly what I am saying. wondered around at 225 to 350 yards out. they look the same through the scope and I wanna know is it 350 or 225!!

the auto nuking I like being able to manual control that. AGM has a setting that allows that and I prefer it. Although it involves 2 buttons at the same time on the varmint and is a bit of a pain.

which 18650 are you using? i see nitecore makes a cold weather 18650 with mixed reviews, my batteries last 2-3 times longer if the unit is inside my house. If its 20 degrees outside those batteries are draining massive quick! 20 degrees at night is normal night temp where I live this time of year. changing out the battery in the dark is kinda a goat phuck situation. its like which way does the battery go in. its more fumbling and monkeying to worry about, did I hit the wrong button, there are stuff your managing when running the thermals, is a setting adjusted wrong. I want simple and easy when its night!!! I also don't use this stuff every night and it seems like I have to re remember alot of the buttons and do dads on the unit.
 
Cover, terrain probably the reason here in MN I don't have much problem knowing just looking thru the scope if a coyote is inside 250 yards. Much different than your Tx country. 20° would be a warm night here, I just use batteries off Amazon with good reviews as backups. My unit has an internal and swappable battery. When it's below zero I have noticed significant less battery time. Just like a Tesla in the winter here.
 
I have had the XG50 and now have the XG60 LRF Pulsar 60mm scope and i really like it.

Love the 2560x2560 screen in this thing!

4x base is not a problem and i can id coyotes from along ways with it.

We have shot coyotes from 30 yards to over 300 yards with the XG60 and have used the rangefinder and ballistics on steel too 500 yards.

Im not looking at shooting past 250 yards on called coyotes but its nice too just check out the LRF and ballistics on a rifle range!

Friends of mine have the Nocpix Ace 50 and 50R scopes and they have a really nice image and are working well for them!

Theres several really good 640 scopes out there now!

If i was buying one tomorrow for my bolt rifles which is all i own id get a Pulsar 60mm series no questions asked!

For me it would be The Pulsar XG60 LRF 4x Base mag!
 
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Chance Doane said:
If i was buying one tomorrow for my bolt rifles which is all i own id get a Pulsar 60mm series no questions asked!
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Curious, since you've spent time with the XG60 if you were replacing it with another Pulsar would you get the same scope again or would you opt for the XL60? I think I like the idea of a 4X base mag over the XL60 with 2.5 but is the 1024 enough better to make it worth going to the lower base mag of the XL. Thoughts???
 
I would get the XG60 with 4x base mag!

I have ran several 4x base scopes in the past with the Iray Rico 384 once before and had very good luck with that scope.

I know several folks thats had the XP60 and XL60 and they ended up with the XG60 and 4x base mag!

It all depends on if you want wider field of view and less base mag or less field of view and more base mag for ID on coyotes at longer range.

I use a Telos XP50 to scan with at 2.5x base and than this XG60 LRF to Shoot with after ive spotted the Coyotes coming too the call!

These two thermal optics from Pulsar really work well for my style of hunting here in my area of Southwest VA.

Hope this helps
 
dave3006 said:
If you are new to thermal and think you don’t need a LRF, you need to humble yourself and listen to Steve Garrett. You need it.

It is near impossible to judge distance at night.
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Ehhhh..... Maybe....

Size of coyote in sight picture is size of coyote in sight picture. Day or night. But I hardly even try to judge distance during the day. Just don't need to.

I've only used thermal for about six nights total. But judging distance was never any kind of issue at all. Just never mattered, killed quite a few for only six nights. Using older IR Hunter's without LRF. Maybe a dozen nights using lights, never even considered wanting LRF. Just never seemed to matter.

Does depend on what you are shooting I guess. If I'm using one of my usual daytime guns, same point of aim at 100, same as 250, same as 350 and I just don't care. MPBR on a 4" target of 350 yards along with bonafide sub .5 MOA accuracy on everything I use during the day (except, the .223 AR or shotgun of course). I would imagine that learning just by visible detail alone what inside 350 looks like would come naturally and quickly.

Shooting a .223? I don't want to shoot over 200 very often even during the day. Might take me a few dozen coyotes to get the mental picture of that, but I'm sure I would pretty quick. But, if using a .223, yeah, knowing not to bother taking the shot would be a nice crutch. I think I'd learn how to walk without it real quick though. But then again, most likely "if" I get one, it will have LRF anyway.

- DAA
 
DAA said:
Ehhhh..... Maybe....

Size of coyote in sight picture is size of coyote in sight picture. Day or night. But I hardly even try to judge distance during the day. Just don't need to.

I've only used thermal for about six nights total. But judging distance was never any kind of issue at all. Just never mattered, killed quite a few for only six nights. Using older IR Hunter's without LRF. Maybe a dozen nights using lights, never even considered wanting LRF. Just never seemed to matter.

Does depend on what you are shooting I guess. If I'm using one of my usual daytime guns, same point of aim at 100, same as 250, same as 350 and I just don't care. MPBR on a 4" target of 350 yards along with bonafide sub .5 MOA accuracy on everything I use during the day (except, the .223 AR or shotgun of course). I would imagine that learning just by visible detail alone what inside 350 looks like would come naturally and quickly.

Shooting a .223? I don't want to shoot over 200 very often even during the day. Might take me a few dozen coyotes to get the mental picture of that, but I'm sure I would pretty quick. But, if using a .223, yeah, knowing not to bother taking the shot would be a nice crutch. I think I'd learn how to walk without it real quick though. But then again, most likely "if" I get one, it will have LRF anyway.

- DAA
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Kinda agree if I saw as many coyotes a year as some of you guys, but I don't ;). I only get to look at 50-60 a year and for my old brain that ain't enough for said picture but that is just me.
 
Thanks all for the continuing posts and information. Another point unknown to some of the respondents regarding a LRF is I hunt known properties. Any ranging issues are taken care of in the daylight with my Leupold LRF. Plus where I hunt when playing the wind I set up within 150 yards of cover where I would expect a dog to exit from. Keeps it simple. Otherwise they have to travel a long ways over an open field and I sit and wait. When they get anxious and don't want to come closer they're in range. Of course using this logic they look it too. Works here in the bean and corn fields.
 
when setting the call, just pace off the distance. it gives you a basic idea of how far the call is and a basic idea of how far away a coyote is to the call.

i thought i read a post somewhere around here that when looking thru a thermal scope and you can see both black and white on a coyote its pretty close, with in your point blank range ? this is suppose to be regardless if you are using white hot or black hot.
 
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