best bullet for minimal pelt damage?
- Thread starter Hayseed
- Start date
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
The best for minimum damage is called "Connibear" or a snare, any rifle is a compromise at best.
Jack
Jack
Coyotejunki
Well-known member
For me, the best factory cartridge for the least pelt damage is the 17 Remington. I reload mine with a 25gr Berger FB match bullet. Not the MEF. I don't know if there is a better caliber out there that produces less fur damage.
I quite using the 243 for coyotes because I couldn't find a bullet that would drop one like a 17 Rem, and not make a big hole in the hide.
For the 243, some hunters like the Sierra 85 HPBT. It works very well on deer, but I didn't like it for coyotes. I had only shot 3 with it though. All had 1.5-2" holes and all three ran. Double lunged all three. One ran about 100 yards. OTOH I had some bang flops with other 6mm bullets, but they seem to be a bit too messy for me.
I have used my 6x45 with Sierra 60 HP's and they worked pretty well for me. Maybe if you light loaded a 243 with this bullet it might work.
There are a lot of 243 users on this board, maybe they will post. I doubt you will find a fur friendly 243 load, unless it's a FMJ and then you may have to explore your traking skills.
I quite using the 243 for coyotes because I couldn't find a bullet that would drop one like a 17 Rem, and not make a big hole in the hide.
For the 243, some hunters like the Sierra 85 HPBT. It works very well on deer, but I didn't like it for coyotes. I had only shot 3 with it though. All had 1.5-2" holes and all three ran. Double lunged all three. One ran about 100 yards. OTOH I had some bang flops with other 6mm bullets, but they seem to be a bit too messy for me.
I have used my 6x45 with Sierra 60 HP's and they worked pretty well for me. Maybe if you light loaded a 243 with this bullet it might work.
There are a lot of 243 users on this board, maybe they will post. I doubt you will find a fur friendly 243 load, unless it's a FMJ and then you may have to explore your traking skills.
243ME
New member
Even though I havent tried them yet on coyotes I've been told you need a harder, heavier, slower moving bullet like a 100 grain partion. Remington loads a 90g scirroco that has a better chance of staying together as well but I'm sure if you hit bone with either your still going to blow that yote apart. I shoot 70g Nosler balistic tips and Its been about a 50/50 ratio for me...all because of shot placement. If I hit bone I'll have a 3-5" hole before skinning and if i dont hit bone shes about a pencil size in and a quarter size at the most out. I dont think there is really a pelt saving round out there in any caliber personaly its just all in the shot placement unless you go to something like a slower moving rimfire that you are going to have runners.
I've tried the 100 grain HP's, by Remington. Not a good idea. Punched an exit wound I could drive a small car through. So I put those away and tried the 100 PSP's by federal. That was a little better. Maybe a 1.5-2" exit hole, but I hit him in the guts. Plus the coyote was a runner. When I hit him with my finishing shot, small hole in and out was all there was. With the HP's, he dropped right where he stood, but he should've because he didn't have a neck left to breath with. I think I'm gonna try the 80 grain PSP's by federal next. But as well, I've also left big holes with a 45 HP in 223. So I would agree that shot placement is best. You must also remember, the best fur is along the sides and back (what the fur buyers want anyways). A hole in the neck is not so bad.
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I've been more than pleased with 58 gr Hornady V-Max in my heavy-as-hell Mod 700 Remington Varmiter. If I remember correctly it burns 42 grains of 4064 (a grain or two below maximum), and depending on which book you believe hops out unchronographed at 3700 or 4000 fps. The pill is so short I just seat it in deep-if I tried to kiss the rifling (like you do on a 100 grain) I'd be 1/32 out of the casing!
An inch up at 100 puts it on at 200, 6 or so low at 300, and, of course, a Hail Mary beyond that.
Interestingly enough, this bullet has a BC of .25, so at 4000 fps you have the equivalent of a 22-250, more or less. This defies logic a little, and probably doesn't extrapolate out like the tables say it does, but I bet it's pretty close.
The good news is, even on a close shot, often no exit. It will take a chunk out of a gutshot coyote, but I was even able to salvage three gray fox from a hunt last winter. While I don't autopsy coyote like I do venison, I reckon that the little pill just shatters on impact and loses it all in the chest area, where the least damaged coyotes, as best I recall, took it in.
Nosler and Barnes make 58 grain .243, too, and they may do just as well. It seems someone made a derogatory remark about the Barnes 58, but I can't recall what it was.
What hasn't worked well for me is the 90 grain Hornady FMJ. Loaded light, it's supposed to be a fur-saver but my poor experience is that it turns into a deer bullet when it hits coyote bone. I field tested some on a couple of jackrabbits and was impressed by the quarter-sized exit holes, then blew up two coyotes before switching over to the 58's. From my (limited) experience with the jacks (more fox-sized) it stands to reason that this might be a decent fox load, and if I had a golf bag full of .243 rifles I might load one up with each bullet for each type of beast!
But my luck with the Hornady 58's has prevented me from picking up a .223 or 22-250, so far. I can feel one coming before long, though. One thing I haven't seen much of out West is the little .222, a good 200 yard whistlepig gun that should be a 150-yarder for coyotes. I killed a few deer with borrowed ones back before I knew deer needed Big Medicine and, since the .17 is just a .222 necked down, would think that they could be at least as effective on coyotes.
An inch up at 100 puts it on at 200, 6 or so low at 300, and, of course, a Hail Mary beyond that.
Interestingly enough, this bullet has a BC of .25, so at 4000 fps you have the equivalent of a 22-250, more or less. This defies logic a little, and probably doesn't extrapolate out like the tables say it does, but I bet it's pretty close.
The good news is, even on a close shot, often no exit. It will take a chunk out of a gutshot coyote, but I was even able to salvage three gray fox from a hunt last winter. While I don't autopsy coyote like I do venison, I reckon that the little pill just shatters on impact and loses it all in the chest area, where the least damaged coyotes, as best I recall, took it in.
Nosler and Barnes make 58 grain .243, too, and they may do just as well. It seems someone made a derogatory remark about the Barnes 58, but I can't recall what it was.
What hasn't worked well for me is the 90 grain Hornady FMJ. Loaded light, it's supposed to be a fur-saver but my poor experience is that it turns into a deer bullet when it hits coyote bone. I field tested some on a couple of jackrabbits and was impressed by the quarter-sized exit holes, then blew up two coyotes before switching over to the 58's. From my (limited) experience with the jacks (more fox-sized) it stands to reason that this might be a decent fox load, and if I had a golf bag full of .243 rifles I might load one up with each bullet for each type of beast!
But my luck with the Hornady 58's has prevented me from picking up a .223 or 22-250, so far. I can feel one coming before long, though. One thing I haven't seen much of out West is the little .222, a good 200 yard whistlepig gun that should be a 150-yarder for coyotes. I killed a few deer with borrowed ones back before I knew deer needed Big Medicine and, since the .17 is just a .222 necked down, would think that they could be at least as effective on coyotes.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
Welcome to the board Linus! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
"The good news is, even on a close shot, often no exit."
This is normal as the closer the shot, the higher the velocity, the higher velocity means more rapid expansion and less penetration. At longer range and lower velocity the same bullet will likely expand less and exit.
Jack
"The good news is, even on a close shot, often no exit."
This is normal as the closer the shot, the higher the velocity, the higher velocity means more rapid expansion and less penetration. At longer range and lower velocity the same bullet will likely expand less and exit.
Jack
Prdtrgttr
New member
I am with coyotejunki on this one. I have had excellent success with the 17 Remington. I'v shot Hornady 25 Hp's, Berger Non MEF, std match 25 gr Hp's, and now I am shooting Genco 26 grs. My brother will be experimenting with 29 gr Gencos this year. One thing I love about the 17 is that the coyotes will have no apparent markings on them after you've shot them. On stationary, broadside coyotes, a bullet placed behind the shoulder, rarely, rarely exits. It's really a beautiful thing, especially if you harvest fur! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I shoot 100 grain Rem. Core Lokt in my Husquavarna .243. It is a nice accurate and cheap load in that gun that sometimes doesn't tear them up. It all depends on how far away you are and where they get hit. My favorite load is a #4 Victor double coil spring followed by a .22 to the head for least fur damage!
In years past I've had good results with the 85 and 100 grain Partitions. Lung shots always exit, but the holes are manageable, (about an inch). Even with Partitions, if you hit the shoulder bone, all bets are off! The bullet will still exit, but it will be pushing big chuncks of bone out ahead of it so stay away from the shoulder. Nowadays I don't save many pelts and I shoot Sierra 60 grain HP's out of my .243. It's by far the most accurate bullet out of my gun, well under an inch. That was the other thing I didn't like about the Partitions, accuracy was never that great, exceptable, but not great.
I'm glad to see that someone got back to the original question, which was asking what .243 fodder was easy on fur. Ballistic information-velocity and energy- for 58 and 60 gr .243's is almost exactly the same as that for the .220 Swift; if one concedes that the Swift is OK on fur then that same conclusion must apply to all 6mm's with similar energy and bullet weight. The obvious advantage for the one gun hunter is the 100-105 gr. bullet option for deer; I'm fortunate that my 700 varmiter shoots all weights pretty much to the same point of impact and I assume the same holds true of most bull barrelled guns. But even with a pencilled-barrelled gun you get the advantage of familiarity. Of course, you do lose a good reason to buy another rifle!
Handgunr
New member
Linus pretty much said it all regarding the .243 & coyotes.
Even though I've always loved the Sierra's over the past 30 yrs., the advent of the Hornady VMax's have converted me over to them almost exclusively.
I use the 55gr. VMax's in my .22-250, .223, and my 15" .243 Encore, as well as some Sierra BlitzKings.
If you want a higher probability of less pass through shots, use the VMax's in a lighter weight. Last year, my main hunting partner, who used a Sierra match bullet of, I think 87grs., in his .243 (against my recommendations), made a beautiful shot on a male coyote at 120yds. The shot caught the dog in the chest and angled back exiting from it's stomach area on the opposing side. The dog ran 150yds. with half of it's innards hangin out, and when I tracked it to it's location, the exit hole was massive.
Yep, I know....no match bullets, but the same thing happened to him the previous year using softpoints...almost identical, but the dog didn't travel as far.
I converted him to VMax's, or Nosler BT's, the same I use, and he hasn't had a pass through yet. The dog's hit go down in a pile...right now.
In my .22-250 I've had head shots on fox and chucks beyond 200yds. with no exits. My first coyote with them, up near Batavia, NY, resulted in a 210yd. shot, hitting the dog slightly above center on his chest, with no exit. The dog went down without a twitch, and his chest was turned to jello.
The load I have in my .243 is a 55gr. Sierra BlitzKing, over 43.0grs. of Varget and a Federal 210Match primer. Out of a rifle, this load would be somewhere around 3800fps. or so. That being said though, I've seen where the Sierra BK's were more sensitive to velocity than the Vmax's, and with a little too much speed, they start to come unglued.
Take care,
Bob
Even though I've always loved the Sierra's over the past 30 yrs., the advent of the Hornady VMax's have converted me over to them almost exclusively.
I use the 55gr. VMax's in my .22-250, .223, and my 15" .243 Encore, as well as some Sierra BlitzKings.
If you want a higher probability of less pass through shots, use the VMax's in a lighter weight. Last year, my main hunting partner, who used a Sierra match bullet of, I think 87grs., in his .243 (against my recommendations), made a beautiful shot on a male coyote at 120yds. The shot caught the dog in the chest and angled back exiting from it's stomach area on the opposing side. The dog ran 150yds. with half of it's innards hangin out, and when I tracked it to it's location, the exit hole was massive.
Yep, I know....no match bullets, but the same thing happened to him the previous year using softpoints...almost identical, but the dog didn't travel as far.
I converted him to VMax's, or Nosler BT's, the same I use, and he hasn't had a pass through yet. The dog's hit go down in a pile...right now.
In my .22-250 I've had head shots on fox and chucks beyond 200yds. with no exits. My first coyote with them, up near Batavia, NY, resulted in a 210yd. shot, hitting the dog slightly above center on his chest, with no exit. The dog went down without a twitch, and his chest was turned to jello.
The load I have in my .243 is a 55gr. Sierra BlitzKing, over 43.0grs. of Varget and a Federal 210Match primer. Out of a rifle, this load would be somewhere around 3800fps. or so. That being said though, I've seen where the Sierra BK's were more sensitive to velocity than the Vmax's, and with a little too much speed, they start to come unglued.
Take care,
Bob
danurve
New member
Just another .243 fan stepping in to Welcome Linus & Handgunr. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I think 3800 - 4000 is smokin right along for light .243 bullets. Whew. Oviously a good recipie will make these rounds perform. You guys are shooting with factory twists / barrels I presume. I also tend to belive the .243 shines with 70 grains & up, but certainly wouldn't argue with what some guys know works for them. Handgunr I also like the Blitzings, H380 & regular WLR's works for me. But then 380 isn't an extreem powder. For what it's worth I went through 3-boxes of Partitions, never got groups better then 1" @ 100 yards. But the partition is designed for hunting, and they just got expensive where Sierra's are more affordable.
I think 3800 - 4000 is smokin right along for light .243 bullets. Whew. Oviously a good recipie will make these rounds perform. You guys are shooting with factory twists / barrels I presume. I also tend to belive the .243 shines with 70 grains & up, but certainly wouldn't argue with what some guys know works for them. Handgunr I also like the Blitzings, H380 & regular WLR's works for me. But then 380 isn't an extreem powder. For what it's worth I went through 3-boxes of Partitions, never got groups better then 1" @ 100 yards. But the partition is designed for hunting, and they just got expensive where Sierra's are more affordable.