Best coyote bullet for coyotes considering trajectory and killing performance for my 223?

S

SalemDawger

New member
I know this has been debated a lot over the years but a bunch of advance searching has not helped me out so I'm asking again.

I have just started reloading again for the first time in 15 years and it's my first go around loading for my ARs. I liked 55 grain VMax and 52 grain BTHP when I was hunting with my 22-250 but have been less happy with lighter grain VMax bullets out of my ARs as I have now lost a few coyotes with them (Not sure if the runners were due to poor shot placement or poor bullet performance, but I have lost the confidence I had with the 22-250)

I have loaded up a few hundred 50 grain VMax with H335 and Varget and some 50 grain SP and 52 grain BTHP. So far I have been very happy with my groups as I have quickly worked up good loads for each combo but I am worried about how they will perform on coyotes.

So here is my question, considering trajectory, down range energy, and bullet killing performance on coyotes, what do you think is the optimal reload in terms of bullet make, and weight?

Is lighter faster better or is heavier weight and thicker jacket better?

Thanks for all opinions!
 
I personally would not shoot the vmax at coyotes unless it was atleast 60 grains. lots of guys have good luck with the 60 vmax, maybe its heavy enough and slowed down enough that it works. I dunno haven't used them. I posted a thread where I ground some bullets the vmax's were always the thinnest jackets.

I would go with a soft point bullet like the sierra 50 grain SP, or some of the other soft point bullets. if they shoot for you. Next I would use a 55 grain nosler btip, These come in 2 types the varmegeddon which looks like a vmax copy and the original btip. I would get the original with the solid copper base. I like 50's for the extra 100 or so fps in 223.
 
cant say about coyote with v-max yet but got deer right threw front should with 55 gn v-max , turkey , ground hog , crow and fox in 22-250 at 3600 fps
 
There are lot's of good choices for a bullet to use in a 223 that will anchor coyotes. My personal favorite is the 50 grain VMax, and I'm pushing it pretty fast. I've also had good luck with a 52 grain HP, a 55 grain SP, and a 55 Grain VMax. All things considered, bullet placement is the key with just about anything we shoot. There have been a few times when I hit a coyote in the wrong place, and had a runner, and have even lost a few. I can't recall a time that I thought that a bullet failed me, because if I put that bullet where it was supposed to go, the result was a dead coyote. Now, you say you've lost confidence in your 22-250. I would think that the 22-250 would be a better choice for coyotes than the 223 would be, as it will push the bullets faster. I coyote hunt with the 223, 22-250, and 243, and occasionally the 6.8SPC. Most of my hunting is done with a 223, because I'm also after bobcats as well, and the 223 is the most fur friendly of the calibers I use. But, when I am targeting coyotes specifically, I will most likely carry a 243. There is not a 223 load that will equal, or even come close, to killing a coyote like a bullet out of the 243 will.
 
Kymailman98, sorry I was not clear enough,I have not lost confidence in my 22-250, I have lost a 4 coyotes in the last year with my 223 and that got me thinking I needed to change my projectile choice with the slower velocity of 223. Heck, I can't remember loosing very many I hit in 20 years with my 22-250.

Thanks for everyone's input, you have confirmed what I was thinking.
 
SalemDawger, here is what you are asking:

best bullet in a 16" or 20" AR with a 9 twist vs a 22/250 with a 24" 12" or 14" twist barrel.

In otherwords, what bullet works best at 2850fps-3100 fps in a 9" twist or 3600fps+ out of a slow twist.

A bolt gun 223 with 24" barrel with 9"-12" twists are a different animal vs an AR when it comes to you finding a fast velocity load that will extend the range of the 223.

In my experience in shooting 9" twist barrels, the increased RPM's over the 14" twist does tend to have the bullet come apart quicker on p. dogs, so coyotes would be even more so with more mass and larger bones.

In my experience, the only poly tip bullet that I will shoot on coyotes are the 60g V max and the 50 and 55g Noslers. If you want to do some bullet testing so as to not maim animals, on the next coyote you kill, hang him up in a tree, back up and aim for specific spots on the animal, the shoulder and hip joint. Do your shooting from 100-200 yards, and you will learn a lot when you skin the hide off the aniamal when it comes do damage.

Of all animals that I have hunted, the coyote will take more abuse than anyother animal. Shot placement can be critical, and shots behind the diaphragm with a 223 AR(and many other calibers) will usually mean a lost animal.

On my Remington 700 SPS Stainless, I shoot the 55g Nosler at 3450 fps, and it simply does a great job, however this is not attainable on AR's, and not even close. 200 fps is a HUGE deal when it comes to killing power and the size of the temporary wound cavity that is created on a coyote at 200 yards.

Everyone is different in their thinking and experiences, this is why an open forum is great to discuss the success that they have had. I like a bullet that will expand and penetrate, this leaves a lot of bullets on my shelf for colony varmints, NOT coyotes. A bullet that is designed to completely come apart in 4" of ballistic gel, is going to fail for predators often, especially on quartering shots, to and fro, and I don't believe in the hose'em down theory...been there, done that.

So, trial end error on your part with various bullets will be fun for you to try. Several of my favorite bullets would be the 60 V max, 55g Nosler, 55g Sierra Spt. The two toughest 55g bullets are the 55g Horandy Sp and the Sierra 55g BTHP. Again, there is no room for error for hitting them behind the diaphragm. For shots behind the diaphragm, the 243 and 6 Remington are KING of the HILL. I had a lot of coyotes run off that had been shot behind the diaphragm with a 22/250, especially at yardages of 150+.

In my hunting experience, the vast majority of shots on predators would range between 80-125 yards. So, with these close shots, all it is going to take is shot placement. Coyotes are often shot while walking, trotting, and at a dead run which makes a shot hit behind the diaphragm to the hip joint. Also, don't forget that with slow velocities, you will be more apt to unzip a coyote as the yardage increases to 200 yards-250 yards.

Also, heavy AR triggers are simply no help in proper shot placement, I would drop a JP trigger in mine before I ever fired a shot. A heavy trigger with a right hand shooter will leade to the shot being jerked off to the left more often than not. So, the spray and pray is not worth a darn with a heavy trigger, with the exception that you have scared off multiples that you might have had a shot on otherwise.

SalemDawger, with your last year's experience compared between the AR and the 250, you might ask yourself why you need an AR? I sold 5 Colts over the years plus a total custom built Colt, and I never looked back...guess what???? I was asking myself the exact same question that you are asking now! I put the money into a Rem 700 24", 12 twist, 22/250 AI shooting the 55g what evers at 4050 fps...the holy grail of varmint hunting for me. It has been rare, really rare that I ever could have killed a coyote with an AR with it's multiple shot capability vs the bolt gun. However, perception would leade you to believe otherwise. While living in S. Ca, Arizona, and hunting in Old Mexico, we killed a huge number of coyotes.

Part of the joy in our hunting is trying different guns, loads, bullets, etc. So, this is just a hobby, make it fur for yourself and chase your own dreams of a perfect coyote arsenal.
 
I think that based on the results of the coyotes that i have shot, I would buy a box of the 53gr vmax from hornady, and test shoot them to see if you get good groups.

The BC and trajectory, is better than most bullets in that weight range. The 53 will, and does drop coyotes like a stone out past 300yrds.

This is also all based on thinking that you can use the bullet based on the twist rate. I would suggest that you use any vmax that stabilizes the best in your twist rate.
 
55 and 60gr. V-max is my choice. I have more 55gr. on hand and am trying to burn them up before going with my new 60gr. loads that I have worked up.
 
Originally Posted By: Rosco246940gr nosler bt with win 748 powder even drops deer.
so will a .22 lr
wink.gif
does'nt mean its a great round .

i just can't wrap my brain around seriously hunting coyotes with a vmax when there are SO many other better choices
 
Quote:i just can't wrap my brain around seriously hunting coyotes with a vmax when there are SO many other better choices

What are the options? Putting down someone else's idea but then offering no alternatives, will not help answer any questions.

I like the vmaxs myself but have also had great luck with the 45 gr hp from Winchester.
 
Ackleyman,

You are 100% spot on in everyone of your points. I had a 700 VSSF 22-250 I sold to build my OPS4 20 inch AR. I sold a too heavey bolt gun that shot lights out and I had total confidence with to build a too heavey AR gun has over $1500 in it and it has cost me 4 lost coyotes and too many misses to admit to. I have a 24 in Bushmaster that I've had for 7 years and it had shot well for me. If I am being 100% honest If I had not changed away from my bolt guns I would have killed more coyotes than I have with my ARs. The dream of calling in packs and laying down multiples with an AR has alluded me.

I do not regret going to black rifles though as I have really enjoyed learning about them and building them. I also have 2 16' CARs I shoot for fun.

I still have bolt guns that might get called up soon
I still have a my old PO Ackley built 22-250 AI that I don't want to shoot anymore for fear of shooting it out. I killed my first coyote with that gun and hunted and shot it a ton killing a lot of coyotes with it back when I was younger. I also shot it too hot and burned too much lead through it.

I also have a 257 Roberts AI and a 240 Weatherby that I one day plan on hunting with.

Your advise is much appreciated.

I appreciate everyone's input and knowledge.
 
My buddy and I were out hunting this last weekend. Had a couple of coyotes coming in. One sat down and was looking at us from 330 yards. Friend touched one off.... Whack. Heard bullet hit coyote HARD. coyote dropped down. Got up and slowly made his way off. Watched as he ran 1500 yards off over horizon. Couldn't believe it. Found fur and a little blood. What bullet was my friend shooting??? 55 grain v max. I won't ever load and them for coyotes myself. Prairie dogs yes. Coyotes no way.
 
The 50gr Vmax has been my go to coyote bullet for quite some time, and have yet to have one not kill, and kill quickly. In my Ackley, I am pushing them at 3500 fps, and they work just fine from 25yd to well past 200yd.

That being said, I am slowly transitioning to the 53gr Vmax for its better BC, and slightly better accuracy out of my guns. Either way, the Vmax kill coyotes just fine.
 
Either way, the Vmax kill coyotes just fine.

Amen to that...

I've killed a lot of dogs with a 223 with 40 vmax factory loads... all of them fell on their faces... with only ONE running off, but that was from my bad shooting.

I then went to a 204 with 40 vmax factory loads... same thing... dirty dirt faces... I thought it was a NORMAL thing for coyotes kills to act this way. I hadn't shot one with my 22-250 with factory white box Winchester hp ammo, so I went out and shot one broadside about 120 yds away.
It jumped up and took off into a 20 yd dash...but then piled up.
I thought... Well heck.. that sucks... why isn't it stoned dead like the other ones that I'm used to seeing...?
I know it's not the caliber's fault, but I put it up right then and went back to the 204 and 40 vmaxes for more Dirty Dirt Faces.
 
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