Best dies for accuracy in .223

R

rth1959rth

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What do you consider the best press mounted dies for accuracy in a .223?

I am presently using Lee Collet dies and the factory crimp die. I am neck sizing and using a moderate crimp with the collet factory crimp die.

Now here is the loaded question. Do you THINK that I would see an improvement in accuracy by going to a Forester or Redding Die set?

I don't have a guage to check for runout. Just wanting yall's opinion.
 
Originally Posted By: BlueDevilFoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorster!

Yeah, that.
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Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: BlueDevilFoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorster!

Yeah, that.
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I like my first dabbling in them. Great quality.
 
Ninehorses, I am loading a 50 gr Vmax, 26 grains W748, Win primer, in neck turned Win cases. The reason that I am using the factory crimp die with a moderate crimp is that it is supposed to help with bullet runout. I am crimping lightly and rotating the case 1/4 turn and crimping lightly again as per the Lee instructions. I'm averaging .7 3 shot groups at 100 yds. out of a stock Savage model 11 with a lightened trigger and Devon bedding of the plastic stock. I realize that this is not a varmit gun and that I can't complain but I want to get my average group down to .5 if possible. I don't want to replace the stock or barrel as this is my truck gun and I bought it for the most bang for the buck.

So, do you think that this is a realistic goal or am I maxed out with my budget lightweight predator gun???
 
Originally Posted By: rth1959rthNinehorses, I am loading a 50 gr Vmax, 26 grains W748, Win primer, in neck turned Win cases. The reason that I am using the factory crimp die with a moderate crimp is that it is supposed to help with bullet runout. I am crimping lightly and rotating the case 1/4 turn and crimping lightly again as per the Lee instructions. I'm averaging .7 3 shot groups at 100 yds. out of a stock Savage model 11 with a lightened trigger and Devon bedding of the plastic stock. I realize that this is not a varmit gun and that I can't complain but I want to get my average group down to .5 if possible. I don't want to replace the stock or barrel as this is my truck gun and I bought it for the most bang for the buck.

So, do you think that this is a realistic goal or am I maxed out with my budget lightweight predator gun???



With a Savage you should be grouping in the .5 to .3's just for having bought one......... you have work to do that dies won't fix.
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Originally Posted By: ninehorsesYour Lee dies will load accurate ammo.

+1

Unless you are a benchrest shooter, you are fine with those Lee dies. I have loaded plenty of quarter minute of angle stuff with Lee dies over the last 30 odd years with them. My longest prairie dog kills ever were made with ammo that was loaded with Ebay purchased .223 AI Lee dies.

$150 dies are not going to make you ammo that shoots six times better than $25 dies. Nothing wrong with high end dies, but out in the field you are never going to notice the difference.
 
I'm sure other's will read this,so I'll ask here...what are opinions on RCBS dies? I know dies from Redding,Dilon,Forster or Wilson to name a few of the more expensive ones are suppose to be better,but what does make them so much different than RCBS other than name and price???

 
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Originally Posted By: gene10pntrI'm sure other's will read this,so I'll ask here...what are opinions on RCBS dies? I know dies from Redding,Dilon,Forster or Wilson to name a few of the more expensive ones are suppose to be better,but what does make them so much different than RCBS other than name and price???



One of the big differences can be noticed instantly upon opening the box. The exterior finish of Redding or Forster dies is much better than the RCBS. Everything is smooth with soft edges and no sharp corners or burrs.

Forster seaters are much different than the others which makes them cost a bit more.

The quality control put forth by those other companies make a difference. I've had several issues with brand new RCBS dies in the past and simply won't buy them anymore. I prefer to spend a bit more and purchase Forster first and Redding a close second.
 
Originally Posted By: rth1959rthNinehorses, I am loading a 50 gr Vmax, 26 grains W748, Win primer, in neck turned Win cases. The reason that I am using the factory crimp die with a moderate crimp is that it is supposed to help with bullet runout. I am crimping lightly and rotating the case 1/4 turn and crimping lightly again as per the Lee instructions. I'm averaging .7 3 shot groups at 100 yds. out of a stock Savage model 11 with a lightened trigger and Devon bedding of the plastic stock. I realize that this is not a varmit gun and that I can't complain but I want to get my average group down to .5 if possible. I don't want to replace the stock or barrel as this is my truck gun and I bought it for the most bang for the buck.

So, do you think that this is a realistic goal or am I maxed out with my budget lightweight predator gun???


If this is the rig you are shooting, and you are getting 0.7", three shoot groups, you don't need "Best dies for accuracy... "

You need a better rifle.

No matter what dies you buy (and there are some fantastic dies being made) your rifle will never know it.

It's like putting Pirelli P-1 tires on a a pick-up truck.

You are wasting your time turning necks too.
 
Do your loads meet your expectations? If not then you will need to invest some coin to up your performance.
Lee dies will produce ammo on the cheep, and that is all some care about. But if you want to produce ammo that will meet or exceed the potential of your rifle and you. You need to step up your equipment and that includes more than just your dies. What you are expecting and will be satisfied with will determine how much that will cost.
A good bushing die along with a competition seater is the absolute minimum in the equipment category.
The bushing die will allow you to control the amount of neck tension without having to pull an expander plug back through the case neck and potentially causing the neck to be distorted. A competition seating die has a floating chamber to hold the case in proper alignment before the bullet is started into the case to minimize bullet run out. If you want bench rest quality the cost of equipment gets very expensive very fast and is not needed for most individuals.
 
I disagree with catshooter. Savage rifles are capable of outstanding accuracy.
The weak link with the savage is their plastic stocks. A good laminate or synthetic will go a long way in tightening the groups. In reality you have a more than adequate rifle for a truck gun.
 
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I have a Forster concentric gauge( I think that is what they call it) and when I got it I tried to see if one die set would give me consistently better run-out. I had on hand RCBS,Lee (both FL and Collet), and Redding .223 dies. I switched and swapped and even tried a Hornady seating die IIRC and the results were.... I could see little if any difference. This was using the same Lapua brass shot in one Remington 700 gun. The Lee collet die was the second reason I did the experiment just to see if it was better or worse than FL sizing. The collet die gave very slight improvement but honestly it was a small sampling and my conclusion was all did fine and consistent neck tension may be even more important. As long as my run-out is acceptable I don't get to worked up about how I get there.
 
Originally Posted By: Blacktail_8541I disagree with catshooter. Savage rifles are capable of outstanding accuracy.
The weak link with the savage is their plastic stocks. A good laminate or synthetic will go a long way in tightening the groups. In reality you have a more than adequate rifle for a truck gun.

Disagree all you want, but "Outstanding accuracy", and "truck gun"... do not fit in the same sentence!

Outstanding accuracy are rifles that shoot FIVE shot groups that are under 0.20", repeatedly.

Lee dies are fine for a "Truck gun"!!

 
Would it make more sense to try and reduce the Standard Deviation from the powder and other components. Assuming that Dies are creating very little varience, I would guess that spending the money on a more accurate powder measure rather than compitition bench rest dies would make more sense.
Would it make more sense (financially) to focus on getting the speed as consistent as possible. my scale was giving me a SD of 25 and then i changed scales, and was getting a SD of 10. I don't know what, or if it would be possible to get lower than that, or if it would make a difference.
You raise a good question though.

At some point i would think that you reach the limits of physics on this. The differnces of changing the dies may only net you a
 
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